watchnerd
Grand Contributor
Nothing currently can provide beyond ~21 bits of resolution. The limitation is noise and distortion.
Exactly my point.
So the >20 bits / 120 dB top range of the SINAD scale will almost never be true.
Nothing currently can provide beyond ~21 bits of resolution. The limitation is noise and distortion.
Right, and we have a few examples where it is, like the Matrix DACs and Benchmark preamplifiers. Hopefully more manufacturers shoot for it.Exactly my point.
So the >20 bits / 120 dB top range of the SINAD scale will almost never be true.
Right, and we have a few examples where it is, like theMatrix DACs and Benchmark preamplifierssuper mega awesome TotalDAC. Hopefully more manufacturers shoot for it.
Which is good. Let the blue scale be something really, really special only the very best can achieve.Exactly my point.
So the >20 bits / 120 dB top range of the SINAD scale will almost never be true.
Which is good. Let the blue scale be something really, really special only the very best can achieve.
That would be excellent. Thanks!Hi @pozz, if we take a part of your list and link it, would that help you? Can you copy this over to your list?
Turn it into a joint effort.
69.9…………………………..……Hifime UDA38Pro
68.0……………………………..…Ayre CODEX (XLR Out)
67.8………………………………..Ayre CODEX (RCA Out)
67.4………..………………………Bluesound NODE 2i (S/PDIF In)
65.0…………..……………………Audio-gd R2R-11
61.4……………..…………………Woo Audio WA7 & WA7tp
59.4………………..………………NAD 7050
55.3…………………..……………Audio-gd NFB-28.28 (Fixed Output, XLR Out)
53.8……………………..…………Fostex HP-A3 (USB In)
51.7..………………………………Bluesound NODE 2i (TOSLINK In)
Ok, then I propose that everybody who wants to help creates a post to reserve the part they'll be doing so we avoid double work. Like this.
Do you consider the explanatory note below insufficient?In my opinion there should be no color difference in the SINAD chart.
On what basis are the boundaries between groups (colors) established?
The boundaries are not substantiated by anything and are arbitrarily determined.
This only confuses the users as they can draw the wrong conclusions from them.
SINAD
- █ >120dB (>20 bits): Provably inaudible noise and distortion.
- █ 109dB—119dB (18 bits—20 bits): Well beyond 16-bit (CD) resolution.
- █ 96dB—108dB (16 bits—18 bits): Meets and exceeds 16-bit (CD) resolution.
- █ 85dB—95dB (14.3 bits—16 bits): Does not meet 16-bit (CD) resolution.
- █ <85dB (<14.3 bits): Performance is below the minimum lenient threshold defined in this thread.
- SINAD measurements are made by averaging the R&L channels. The bandwidth is 20Hz—20kHz.
- Keep in mind that performance is physically limited by the noise and distortion of the engineered circuit. The unique limits of each piece of tested hardware can be assessed using the SINAD ratio, which represents the noise and distortion-free operating range in dB.
- One of the simplest ways to gauge SINAD is to compare it to 16-bit CD dynamic range. 1 bit equals 6.02dB, making the maximum dynamic range of CDs 96.3dB (this is without considering the effects of noise-shaping dither in the digital mastering process, which typically detracts 3dB). This means that playback equipment should be capable of a SINAD of at least 96.3dB to ensure that all information of the encoded audio signal is reproduced in its entirety.
- For perspective, the highest measured SINAD value is approximately 123dB (20.4 bits) for the Audio Precision APx555 analyzer.
- It's also useful to consider SINAD values in terms of dBFS. 0dBFS references the maximum output of a digital signal without clipping. -120dBFS is provably inaudible even without taking into account psychoacoustic masking or equal loudness curves. Research by Louis Fielder from 1981 and 1995 supports this claim.
- Again, for perspective, please see @RayDunzl's Shoutometer™, @flipflop's thread on audibility and @amirm's article on dynamic range.
- Thanks to @martijn86, @Matias and everyone else who participated in the thread which decided this approach.
Right, although CD quality is generally used as a baseline. Also, between strict and lenient limits is a 35dB range—which is frankly massive.I know I am coming quite late in the battle, but since the quartile system is abandonned, wouldn't a 3 colors code be more consistent with @flipflop 's thread on audibility?
- above strict limits
- between strict and lenient limits
- below lenient limits
Consistency across the forum would give more weight to the data.
Yes but "probably" has nothing to do with proof, it just means "more likely than not".Oh, sorry, I got it wrong then. I understood "probably" as in not proven yet. Thanks for the correction.
You are right, at the end most of the tested gear would be the same color, and the table would loose in readability.Right, although CD quality is generally used as a baseline. Also, between strict and lenient limits is a 35dB range—which is frankly massive.
The current SINAD scale splits "between strict and lenient limits" into three more or less equal segments.
Thanks for all the work. I have a hard time with the low contrast of this orange color:So I've spent the early part of the day deciding the look of the charts/links. They look like this: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...easurement-comparison-charts.8246/post-207205
me tooThanks for all the work. I have a hard time with the low contrast of this orange color:
View attachment 32886
Am I the only one?