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Review and Measurements of Schiit Yggdrasil V2 DAC

celander

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I have performed extensive listening tests of Yggdrasil DAC against others. None of what you state is what I heard. This is in careful AB testing with levels matched with my ears and that of others. Your statement about measurements is also not correct. It is an excuse to ignore objective data.

I am trying to get my mind around some of these Yggy criticisms. Amirm: Are you referring to listening comparisons with the original Yggy that measured poorly in your tests? Or a Yggy Analog 2 after all the supposed DSP issues were resolved? And if the original Yggy measurement issues have been corrected via hardware or software updates, then why the continued bashing of the product?
 
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amirm

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I am trying to get my mind around some of these Yggy criticisms. Amirm: Are you referring to listening comparisons with the original Yggy that measured poorly in your tests? Or a Yggy Analog 2 after all the supposed DSP issues were resolved? And if the original Yggy measurement issues have been corrected via hardware or software updates, then why the continued bashing of the product?
My listening tests were with the latest I received for this review. Schiit says that nothing was broken/has been fixed so any complains remain valid. :)

My sense is that they are not being truthful and have added dither to resolve the issue with linearity. The rest of the performance however, remains substantially subpar for a $99 DAC let alone one costing over $2,000:

Best Audio DACs 2019.png


I just looked and Schiit still has not posted any measurements of this DAC even though they have for others and own the same analyzer as I do.

Also, there is no mention of any hardware or software fixes. And there continues to be incorrect and misleading statements about the DAC:

1555446161233.png


There is no bit perfection when so much distortion that is piled on each analog voltage.

So no, I don't think we have done enough if you are here still thinking everything is resolved.
 

celander

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My listening tests were with the latest I received for this review.

So I’m confused. When did you receive the “latest” version of the Yggy, and did you repeat any of your measurements that you had performed with any earlier version of a Yggy?
 
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amirm

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So I’m confused. When did you receive the “latest” version of the Yggy, and did you repeat any of your measurements that you had performed with any earlier version of a Yggy?
The date is in the original review. This is actually the third Yggdrasil I measured. The first two (also linked in the first page) were done with my old analyzer. This one with my newest. The project files are incompatible but some of the measurements are similar. They all point to issues in the design and implementation of Yggdrasil.
 

Hemi-Demon

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So I’m confused. When did you receive the “latest” version of the Yggy, and did you repeat any of your measurements that you had performed with any earlier version of a Yggy?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eview-of-schiit-yggdrasil-dac.2358/post-66720

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ts-of-schiit-yggdrasil-dac-inconsistent.3812/

Gotta read the entire thread!! All the different units and details are present. I might add, I would also recommend that you check some of the data presented over at head-fi (using the same AP unit) and SBAF (tough, slanted crowd, but there is "data") Something remains awry with this device and who and how it is measured ;););):D:D

Better yet, don't spend $2K on a dac that doesnt do DSD in 2019, and by most accounts requires you to keep the dac on forever to "stabilize".
 

garbulky

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So I’m confused. When did you receive the “latest” version of the Yggy, and did you repeat any of your measurements that you had performed with any earlier version of a Yggy?
Well it depends on what Amir talks about "problems". In real world music listening the Yggy has no measurable problems that would affect it. The linearity test shows +/-0.5 db out past 100 db well below real issues. However, compared to other much cheaper dacs the measurements simply don't stack up as well. That doesn't mean the dac is broken or has issues. I haven't seen it specifically said but I think Amir likes to see a noise floor and distortion below 110 or 120 db to be transparent. And perhaps in very specific niche listening tests somebody might be able to tell a difference. But I would be knocked over if these measurements had any to real world applications in distortion below 80 or even 70 db. So in a way he's right - in terms of measurements, it's not competitive. But also, in real world use terms, there's little to fault.

Now as to bit perfect - bit perfect doesn't really apply to analog, I think they are talking about the digital filter. Unless they are using dither, then the filter is bit perfect in the sense that it uses the original bits. However I agree that this DAC is listed as being a 21 bit mission critical dac. With the clock at 1.0008 khz and the noise levels higher than cheaper dacs, you can't call this "mission critical" or anything like that as it is outperformed in measurements by cheaper units especially in noise floor. The multibit tech and its proprietary filter doesn't clearly produce better (measurable) results. I am still interested in this unit having tried the Gungnir. There is something to the Gungnir's sound that I liked though I won't claim why it was so. I hear a similar sound signature with my old Denon multibit unit from the early 90's (subjective impressions no dbt). I care about the sound in real world use, so if the Yggy can give me what I am looking for, then I'm for it. But when I try it, if I don't hear a difference, I can't justify the price and shall return it. The same goes for DACs that do have very impressive measurements. I tried the Oppo 205 which ranks very highly on measurements and I thought it wasn't good, as in you couldn't pay me to take it. I didn't care what the measurements had to say about it, it's simply not worth it for me.
 

pkane

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I’ve read other posts/reviews by Amirm. There seems to be a bias in his reviews of Schiit products generally. Calling design aesthetics “bland” is just one point.

How about reading the measurements yourself and not relying on someone else to give you their subjective interpretation? That’s where there’s real value in Amir’s reviews.
 

SIY

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How about reading the measurements yourself and not relying on someone else to give you their subjective interpretation? That’s where there’s real value in Amir’s reviews.

The AP is biased. This is known.
 

celander

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How about reading the measurements yourself and not relying on someone else to give you their subjective interpretation? That’s where there’s real value in Amir’s reviews.

If Amirm’s reviews are laced with negative, bias-leaning statements, then what’s the point going to the measurements?
 

celander

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I actually do understand the reason for measurements. And correct me if I’m wrong, but the measurements should speak for themselves without additional biased commentary from the reviewer.
 

Purité Audio

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Its a fantastic looking product, sadly it measures shit, does that help?
Keith
 

pkane

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I actually do understand the reason for measurements. And correct me if I’m wrong, but the measurements should speak for themselves without additional biased commentary from the reviewer.

And they do. Unlike most other sites, here you have a choice. Take what you prefer: objective measurements or subjective opinion. If you understand the difference between these, you’ll know which to pick.
 

celander

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And they do. Unlike most other sites, here you have a choice. Take what you prefer: objective measurements or subjective opinion. If you understand the difference between these, you’ll know which to pick.


When the reviewer is both opining and measuring, its sort of difficult to separate the two. And when two different people get radically different measurements, it’s makes one believe that something is amiss.
 

Yuno

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I actually do understand the reason for measurements. And correct me if I’m wrong, but the measurements should speak for themselves without additional biased commentary from the reviewer.
You are wrong, because this is Amir's forum and he has the right to do his reviews as he wishes. By audio reviewer standards, his reviews are about as un-biased as it gets.
You can get your own AP rig, set up your own forum, spend time and money on organizing gear yourself, and do your reviews without any commentary.
 

SIY

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When the reviewer is both opining and measuring, its sort of difficult to separate the two.

Here's an easy way: when you see a graph, that's a measurement.
 

pkane

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When the reviewer is both opining and measuring, its sort of difficult to separate the two.

No, it really isn’t. Just realize that subjective review is always biased, based on individual’s preferences, opinions, state of mind, physical state, etc., etc. Measurements are not.
 
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