SINAD table colour brackets

[FooYatChong]

@pozz It really isn't that difficult to maintain.

When you look at the source code of the file you’ll see this repeating pattern:

It makes up one row in the chart. Just copy such a block to the appropriate location (sinad descending) and change the link to the review (href=“everything-in-between-the-quotes”), the name (here in white) and the sinad value twice: once in the class-name (sinad-xxx) en once in between the <span>xxx</span> tags.

 

[pozz]

I think the descriptors have just as much potential to be misleading as anything.

For example...

>116 dB. Absolute engineering overkill, you're paying for extra performance that doesn't make an audible difference.

...is just as true as calling it "Superior".

SINAD doesn't map too well to audibility or value-judgments:

$$$$$
$$$$
$$$
$$
$



What really matters is to help readers develop a sense of judgment when it comes to audio gear and manufacturer claims.

 

[pozz]

@pozz It really isn't that difficult to maintain.

When you look at the source code of the file you’ll see this repeating pattern:

View attachment 32459

It makes up one row in the chart. Just copy such a block to the appropriate location (sinad descending) and change the link to the review (href=“everything-in-between-the-quotes”), the name (here in white) and the sinad value twice: once in the class-name (sinad-xxx) en once in between the <span>xxx</span> tags.

The only kind of code I've written is in fancy ways to say "I love you" in letters to my wife.

Would @amirm be able to host the applet on ASR? Would it be able to handle decimal points? If yes, then no problem. I could do it.

 

[martijn86]

... >116 dB. Absolute engineering overkill, you're paying for extra performance that doesn't make an audible difference.

...is just as true as calling it "Superior".

How about: 1. █ You can rest now. Knowing that whatever bothers you is not due to the quality of your DAC. You are loved. You owe it to yourself to love yourself. Stress is for people in the lowest bracket. We'll talk about your room treatment later but for now let all worries float away on a river of measurements.

It is true though that above that line, you likely shop based on looks, functionality, price, availability and many other things. Mad respect to whoever stretches that SINAD beyond new horizons but you'll all have to share a #1 spot. I know @amirm is not running a purchase advise / shopping guide. Measurements should come first but in presenting them, can we create meaning and relevance? @RCAguy posted What matters about SINAD measurements some suggestions to what could be these thresholds for amplifiers.

1. RED 20dB over the noisefloor of an untreated room.
2. ORANGE 10dB over the noisefloor of an untreated room
3. YELLOW Plenty of headroom for untreated rooms
4. GREEN Plenty of headroom for treated rooms
5. BLUE Plenty of headroom for studio reference use.

 

[FooYatChong]

@pozz It's simple html+css+javascript (less than 100KB, all files combined) and will run on the most basic webserver.

I can finish the first version for you and help you with integrating it into ASR. Then you can take it from there.

I'll look into the decimals and style it more à la ASR.

 

[Hugo9000]

I like this description if it doesn't get us into defending it in page after page.

Use the colors, and perhaps even those specific ranges, but don't use the descriptions of the ranges anywhere. That can be your little secret (and that of anyone who has seen it already in this thread haha!). If readers really want to know what the specific ranges mean, you can sell Secret Decoder Rings!

 

[martijn86]

Use the colors, and perhaps even those specific ranges, but don't use the descriptions of the ranges anywhere. That can be your little secret (and that of anyone who has seen it already in this thread haha!). If readers really want to know what the specific ranges mean, you can sell Secret Decoder Rings!

To decode the message,

Spoiler

you must click an affiliate link to a tube amplifier or make a picture of you pissing against the wind.

 

[amirm]

Would @amirm be able to host the applet on ASR?

For security reasons, HTML code can NOT be embedded in posts. So that won't work.

It is difficult to do this in the forum software. We could make a separate HTML page for it but won't look like the rest of the forum.

The other alternative is writing an extension for the platform. I have not written one so it is not a near term solution.

 

[FooYatChong]

We could make a separate HTML page for it but won't look like the rest of the forum.

We can make it look pretty similar. And it's probably the easy solution.

 

[amirm]

We can make it look pretty similar. And it's probably the easy solution.

Do you want to lend a hand with it? If you create a prototype version then I can upload and find a way to maintain it.

 

[pozz]

Nice.

And more on colours tomorrow.

 

[amirm]

The thing that makes the hyperlink version tough is the bar graph. If we did away with that and just had an ordered list with a SINAD score, then it could be done within the context of the forum software. And @pozz could then maintain it without my intervention. We could still have the pretty graph but won't be clickable.

 

[digicidal]

The thing that makes the hyperlink version tough is the bar graph. If we did away with that and just had an ordered list with a SINAD score, then it could be done within the context of the forum software. And @pozz could then maintain it without my intervention. We could still have the pretty graph but won't be clickable.

Yes, that's what I figured which was why I suggested the lower-tech version in #5. Something like this could easily be done without modification:

Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro...........................................................................................................................121dB
Matrix Audio Element X............................................................................................................................120dB
Sabaj D5....................................................................................................................................................119dB
Okto Research DAC8.............................................................................................................................118dB
Oppo UDP-205..............................................................................................................................115dB
Gustard X26 XLR...........................................................................................................................115dB
Topping D50.........................................................................................................................109dB
Chord Mojo USB..................................................................................................102dB
SMSL Sanskrit 10th S/PDIF.............................................................................101dB
Schiit Jotunheim AK4490.........................................................................96dB
Ifi iDSD Black...................................................................................93dB
ChromeCast Audio..................................................................91dB
AudioQuest DragonFly Red............................................89dB
Schiit Jotunheim...................................................84dB
Audio-GD NFB 28.28......................55dB

The only bad part about creating the visual graph design over keeping the values in line... is that for people viewing on their phones it could be a disaster. However, posting the graph as an image above it would eliminate the need and it could be just like:

Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro...........................................121dB
Matrix Audio Element X..............................................120dB
Sabaj D5.........................................................................119dB
Okto Research DAC8....................................................118dB
Oppo UDP-205..............................................................115dB
Gustard X26 XLR...........................................................115dB
Topping D50..................................................................109dB
Chord Mojo USB............................................................102dB
SMSL Sanskrit 10th S/PDIF..........................................101dB
Schiit Jotunheim AK4490..............................................96dB
Ifi iDSD Black...................................................................93dB
ChromeCast Audio..........................................................91dB
AudioQuest DragonFly Red...........................................89dB
Schiit Jotunheim..............................................................84dB
Audio-GD NFB 28.28......................................................55dB

This would break better on all but the smallest resolution devices - which aren't handled by the CSS employed on this forum software anyway. Which is just fine by me... I personally HATE responsive, mobile-first design, etc. Of course, if it wasn't what every buzzword-flinging CEO asks for right after something involving the words "in the cloud", "synergistic", and "brand-centric" - then I might be less bitter. That and I just hate smartphones entirely.

And get off my lawn while I'm at it!

 

[Rja4000]

For security reasons, HTML code can NOT be embedded in posts. So that won't work.

It is difficult to do this in the forum software. We could make a separate HTML page for it but won't look like the rest of the forum.

That could come as a header.

My opinion is:
1. The benefit of color based on ranking is that there is no room for endless discussion.
It's just a ranking at a given time. And we have to accept that the rank of a device may change in the future.

2. With so many DAC tested, it becomes unreadable. Still it is very visual.
So keep the current bar-graph look as a frontend, the colors, but when you click on the graph, show another page, containing the one-DAC-per-line bargraph view (with HTML and DB script), and allowing to dig in details and filter.

3. In the detailed page, a dynamic filtering of the list would be very useful.
In that filtering, you could implement functional criteria (with ADC, with HP amp, with volume control, with AES, dongle-size), price range, ... and SINAD >96, 116, ...
Of course, this should be linked to a database.

4. Direct hyperlink from this list to the tests would be very handy too

5. We also probably need a way to easily create the traditional horizontal bargraph picture of it (filtered, and with some DACs highlighted), to be able to attach it to forum discussion.
And Amir could use it to export the ranking himself and update the header.

 

[amirm]

Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro...........................................121dB
Matrix Audio Element X..............................................120dB
Sabaj D5.........................................................................119dB
Okto Research DAC8....................................................118dB
Oppo UDP-205..............................................................115dB
Gustard X26 XLR...........................................................115dB
Topping D50..................................................................109dB
Chord Mojo USB............................................................102dB
SMSL Sanskrit 10th S/PDIF..........................................101dB
Schiit Jotunheim AK4490..............................................96dB
Ifi iDSD Black...................................................................93dB
ChromeCast Audio..........................................................91dB
AudioQuest DragonFly Red...........................................89dB
Schiit Jotunheim..............................................................84dB
Audio-GD NFB 28.28......................................................55dB

I really like this option. It is simple, should work fine on mobile devices and easy to create. As suggested, I will still maintain the bar graph in reviews in both horizontal and vertical orientation in addition to this.

 

[Ron Texas]

There's nothing wrong with the chart as it is. Besides Amplifiers are a lot worse.

 

[martijn86]

There's nothing wrong with the chart as it is. Besides Amplifiers are a lot worse.

Looking at the latest Purifi review and Hypex/ICEpower performance in general, we are on the verge of seeing a lot more amplifiers that are able to reach 116dB or 96dB THD+N. I'm ecstatic that a local (to me) manufacturer is producing such high quality components on my doorstep!

I think the values I suggested are still relevant from a technical perspective and below that 86dB will be fine with hard to drive speakers. It's only when you hit <76dB, that you should probably consider a different amplifier.

 

[digicidal]

Looking at the latest Purifi review and Hypex/ICEpower performance in general, we are on the verge of seeing a lot more amplifiers that are able to reach 116dB or 96dB THD+N.

Now if only the things we listen with and in could hit those same numbers. Most of the time the noise in my room/house is enough that the speakers are a non-issue however. But I do like A/C in the desert much more than a rock-bottom noise floor.

 

[SpyB]

I really like this option. It is simple, should work fine on mobile devices and easy to create. As suggested, I will still maintain the bar graph in reviews in both horizontal and vertical orientation in addition to this.

I am new to registration,although I have been reading and learning here for quiet some time.
And I have thought about the SINAD Table for sometime,and I vote for this option looks really excellent

 

[Feargal]

A slight snag with the current image/chart is it's not terribly scaleable. More than a few hundred entries and it's going to get pretty crowded.