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Thanks for the link. That catalog sure brought back some memories. I forgot how cool Radio Shack was back in the day.
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GR Research LGK 2.0 Speaker Review (A Joke)
- Thread starter amirm
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mhardy6647
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De nada.
You know... as I reflect on this, it probably is a good thing that our compadre Mr. Ritchie doesn't know about those box-baffle drivers.
Come to think of it -- and in full and complete disclosure
-- I do have this colorful artefact in the collection... not quite the same, but arguably on the spectrum. 
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bennybbbx
Addicted to Fun and Learning
intresting you build this yourself. did you not think that speakers sound much better on desktop when put them with a stative to ear height ?. reflection on desktop plate get less too. Because of this wy nobody build a tower speaker for desktop that is near high enough that it come to ear height. then case is larger and a smaller driver can produce more bass and need no bass reflex
I've never seen someone push more audio snake oil than Danny at GR-Research, he has multiple videos pushing the idea that high-end interconnects, speaker cables, power cables, etc all make a difference to audio. Just based on that alone I can't in good conscience buy anything from them. They are also weirdly hostile towards reviewers in general and come off as arrogant and refuse to take any constructive criticism.
The customer ain't dumb anymore thanks to youtube and ASR. you read, view different review(wers) and make up your own mind.
And young boys that are green filter themselves out.
And young boys that are green filter themselves out.
Very true!
I wonder how far a big company like JBl/Harman could take a speaker in the box concept? I think maybe a small 2 way in a box. It would be fun to see how they measured and what you could tweak on them to increase performance. As usual, as scary as it is, they would probably come out good enough to fool many people who think they would sound terrible. If I was younger and working, I might have tried a 2 way cardboard box build. One of our esteemed engineers, maybe one with a son should try building one and getting it measured. I know Amir would measure it as it is so interesting! I'm thinking the box could be from high strength heavy duty cardboard (very strong stuff), not just regular weak cardboard. There I go, starting to think about the possibilities!Once upon a time, Radio Shack marketed speaker drivers designed to be used in their cartons.
View attachment 245647
source: https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1969_radioshack_catalog.html page 38
DanielT
Major Contributor
Regarding reflection on desktop plate.
You can place the speaker elements close to the table surface to reduce those problems. In addition, if you build the boxes yourself, you can angle the baffle exactly to your liking so that it fits your listening position.
Attached image only tc9 without box, mostly to illustrate that. As well as a couple of small JPW speakers I play with now on the table in front of the sofa. A lot of damping stuff/fluff that I laid out in front of them. That helps too.
Here Stig Carlsson and one of his speaker models. Apparently built to reduce reflections in the listening room. You can also do this:
The damping discs (damping material) prevent floor reflection and wall reflection. In addition, there is a ring around the tweeter, which prevents reflection from the nearest edges...
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Tc9. Good drivers but they don't go that deep in frequency.
Peerless TC9FD18-08 | HiFiCompass
The THD measurements at voltage level 2.83 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (2nd order Butterworth type, 80 Hz cutoff, HPF2-80) The THD measurements at voltage level 4 - 11.2 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (2nd order Butterworth type, 150 Hz cutoff, HPF2-150)...
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Ha, looking at the pic of him with the speaker, it looks like he's not quite sure what he's designed!Regarding reflection on desktop plate.
You can place the speaker elements close to the table surface to reduce those problems. In addition, if you build the boxes yourself, you can angle the baffle exactly to your liking so that it fits your listening position.
Attached image only tc9 without box, mostly to illustrate that. As well as a couple of small JPW speakers I play with now on the table in front of the sofa. A lot of damping stuff/fluff that I laid out in front of them. That helps too.
Here Stig Carlsson and one of his speaker models. Apparently built to reduce reflections in the listening room. You can also do this:
The damping discs (damping material) prevent floor reflection and wall reflection. In addition, there is a ring around the tweeter, which prevents reflection from the nearest edges...
View attachment 245945
View attachment 245946
Edit:
Tc9. Good drivers but they don't go that deep in frequency.
Peerless TC9FD18-08 | HiFiCompass
The THD measurements at voltage level 2.83 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (2nd order Butterworth type, 80 Hz cutoff, HPF2-80) The THD measurements at voltage level 4 - 11.2 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (2nd order Butterworth type, 150 Hz cutoff, HPF2-150)...hificompass.com
DanielT
Major Contributor
He he, well Stig Carlsson was an extremely meticulous man. He tested and measured over and over again. For example, it took him over a year to find suitable felt cloth for those speakers in the picture.
As far as I know, the OA 52.2 has good FR and fairly low distortion.
Ha, that may be true, but he's not big on marketing - the way he's sitting in that chair with that expression makes it look as if he's criticising his own creation, ha!He he, well Stig Carlsson was an extremely meticulous man. He tested and measured over and over again. For example, it took him over a year to find suitable felt cloth for those speakers in the picture.
As far as I know, the OA 52.2 has good FR and fairly low distortion.
DanielT
Major Contributor
By the standards of time, those 52.2 speakers measured well I should add. If I remember correctly. It's been a long time since I saw measurements on them.How they stand these days, compared to modern speakers, I don't know.
Attached picture, measurement (FR at top of graph, distortion curves below)of a couple of his models from the 70s: OA12. Plus picture of a couple of these OA12 with upgrade kits. Kit developed by Ingvar Öhman (disciple of Stig Carlsson). Öhmnan which has its own Ino/Guru speakers:
Or if it was another disciple, Peter Steindel, Bremen speaker, who produced that OA12 upgrade kit. I do not remember.
Edit:
Modern sound ideal has probably passed a couple of speakers from the 70s, but I would have liked to listen to some OA12 with that upgrade kit (new speaker elements and crossover filter).
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I'm just being light-hearted re how he looks in the photo! But to put on a serious hat, those frequency response graphs you showed me, I don't know how accurate they are or the conditions under which they were measured (anechoic, etc). We've certainly seen better Klippel spins, and a few worse. I don't have any bone to pick with the designer or speakers you mention, and I'm not committed to understanding his history or speakers.....I was literally just making a joke about his advert, lol! (There's nothing you need to convince me on.)By the standards of time, those 52.2 speakers measured well I should add. If I remember correctly. It's been a long time since I saw measurements on them.How they stand these days, compared to modern speakers, I don't know.
Attached picture, measurement (FR at top of graph, distortion curves below)of a couple of his models from the 70s: OA12. Plus picture of a couple of these OA12 with upgrade kits. Kit developed by Ingvar Öhman (disciple of Stig Carlsson). Öhmnan which has its own Ino/Guru speakers:
Or if it was another disciple, Peter Steindel, Bremen speaker, who produced that OA12 upgrade kit. I do not remember.
Edit:
Modern sound ideal has probably passed a couple of speakers from the 70s, but I would have liked to listen to some OA12 with that upgrade kit (new speaker elements and crossover filter).
DanielT
Major Contributor
I know you were joking.
That measurement, okay nothing we for this thread we should drill deeper in so I'm just translating what is written.
Weird, to say the least. It says:By the State Testing Institute measured data.
Registration of the loudspeaker's acoustic effect as a function of the frequency in reverberant rooms.
Measuring position in the reverberation room: Speaker standing 5 cm from the back wall and 1.8 meters to the side wall.
The test performed sometime in the 1970s.
Edit:
I suspect the idea was that it would mimic how the speakers were supposed to be placed in a normal living room, listening room. Enough about that.
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Haha. Fair. However, the Infected Mushrooms track I played in the video has plenty of low bass. Of course, the little driver was not able to translate much of that into acoustic energy, and what it could do probably was not picked up by the mic in my phone. My point in posting was just to show that this little speaker is not the total disaster that this thread has made it out to be…although perhaps there is some variation from one build to the next.
When playing more approachable music (eg., acoustic jazz, vocal, folk, pop), they sound great to me. Nice soundstage. Startling detail at times. Precious little output below 80 Hz but enough to hint at what's there. I do plan to eventually high-pass and add a sub, but my use case is 75% Zoom calls at the moment. For that, they are massive overkill.
Great to hear some actual listening from someone that owns them!
Honestly, yours look great, and from the Frequency Response, I would imagine they look quite flat overall.
I get bass will not be one of their strong points, but this driver would make a decent sound over most of the rest of the range.
What is your basis for decent sound?
Many other comparable drivers do not exhibit the degree of 3rd harmonic midrange distortion as this driver does. If any piece of audio electronics distorted as badly, would get returned for refund.
bennybbbx
Addicted to Fun and Learning
By the standards of time, those 52.2 speakers measured well I should add. If I remember correctly. It's been a long time since I saw measurements on them.How they stand these days, compared to modern speakers, I don't know.
Attached picture, measurement (FR at top of graph, distortion curves below)of a couple of his models from the 70s: OA12. Plus picture of a couple of these OA12 with upgrade kits. Kit developed by Ingvar Öhman (disciple of Stig Carlsson). Öhmnan which has its own Ino/Guru speakers:
Or if it was another disciple, Peter Steindel, Bremen speaker, who produced that OA12 upgrade kit. I do not remember.
Edit:
Modern sound ideal has probably passed a couple of speakers from the 70s, but I would have liked to listen to some OA12 with that upgrade kit (new speaker elements and crossover filter).
and http://www.carlssonkult.se/OA52.aspx
intresting and good that you post the FR . there can see the desktop effect. some boost of 350-400 hz. too much 350 -400 reduce clarity. this i not like . reflections and EQ do bad things to transients. I can easy compare it how it sounds in a a b switch where a is the JBL 104 B is focal alpha 65 evtl. when i put the jbl 104 on desktop below the focal JBL sound not good also in stereo image in compare to focal. when i put the jbl on top of the focal it is a little higher as ear height and sound better in stereo image as the focal.
put basotek foam on desktop i try too, but make no diffrence. its also that my desktop is not empty.
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Just for curiosity my Sonab OA-12 measurements. Speakers are not placed symmetrically, but are next to wall. Sound is rather good but a bit dull. I bought these from the original owner 20 years ago. Source is a 25 years old car radio - solar power system...
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DanielT
Major Contributor
Interesting!
Not bad for speakers that are around 50 years old. With 50-year-old speaker elements.
The ravages of time may have worn down the bass element. The x-max may have decreased due to hanging like that for 50 years. It can cause unpleasant distortion, if you are unlucky. In a 50-year-old crossover filter, the capacitors may need to be replaced. New tweeters may be needed to get better sound. There are upgrade kits but they are not completely free. Four new model tweeters for $45 each, new model bass driver around $90 each plus new crossover. Whether they are worth it or not, well who knows?
.Certainly an upgrade kit developed by talented, knowledgeable people.Here are the new speaker elements:
T22oa
<p>Obi T22oa är en diskant specifikt framtagen för utbyte i Carlssonhögtalare, OD-11, OA-12, OA-14, OA-116 och OA-2212.</p>
www.hifikit.se
B65oa-IV - Högtalarelement - Komponenter
<h2><span style="color: #800000;">Åter i lager! </span></h2> <hr /> <h2></h2> <p>Originalbas/mellanregister till hela Sonabs 70-talsserie: OD11, OA12, OA14, OA116 & OA2212. Passar även i Sonab OA50, OA50.2. <br />Det nya Carlss
www.hifikit.se
_____
Edit:
Because the thread is about fullrange drivers. Here is a model that seems good:
Tectonic Elements TEBM35C10-4 Miniature BMR® Driver Review
Tectonic Elements TEBM35C10-4 Miniature BMR® Driver
www.erinsaudiocorner.com
Four of these in each speaker box. Mini line array speakers. Placed at a reasonable distance and probably with a little EQ (usually all line array speakers, for home use need that, from what I've seen). Plus some bass modules and crossover around 300 Hz. It can probably be quite a nice sound then.
Mounted in a sensible way, on a sensible baffle, in a sensible speaker box and so on of course.
(which then won't be full range if they don't take care of frequencies below 300 Hz but still)
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Actually bass drivers have been changed 20+ years ago. I use radio's tone control to boost treble, measurements were done without. Ear tells no distortion at normal spl, and level was too low to show anything. I didn't have time to do more measurements, but perhaps next summer...
ps. my speakers are OA-14 with four tweeters. Step response tells that left speaker has polarity mismatch, but it could be because of different location, wall reflection etc. I need more time to solve this, perhaps next summer...
ps. my speakers are OA-14 with four tweeters. Step response tells that left speaker has polarity mismatch, but it could be because of different location, wall reflection etc. I need more time to solve this, perhaps next summer...
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