AsciLab F6B Bookshelf Speaker Review

[dasherzx]

i am not sure if i've mentioned it before but...

wen floorstanders?

 

[Bucking]

Hey all, maybe someone has heard both:
For a small home theater setup would you go for a pair of used R3 Metas with the R2 Meta center or the new Ascilabs C6b/F6b with the F6b(s) on its side as a center channel? (Sadly quite large when laid on its side)

 

[oal]

ps: Will this thread be an appropriate place for people to post in-room measurements of the F6B?

Sure. Go ahead.

Let me share my measurements.

I received the Ascilab F6B speakers this week. I knew about the speakers' bass extension (-3 dB @ 56 Hz / -6 dB @ 46 Hz) before ordering them, but the level of bass response was greater than I expected. This is good news, but it has exposed a forgotten problem – room gain or standing wave of my small room.

This is the FR in my living room. The red line is the F6B and the blue line is the Revel M105 I am currently using in my living room.

Looks fine except for the dip around 50Hz. As you see, F6B has more bass level than M105. (Note: The M105 and the F6B were measured in the same position. However, this is not my usual listening position.)

The following graph shows the FR of the F6B on the desk in my small workroom. The red line is the left channel and the green line is the right channel. The measurement microphone (miniDSP UMIK-1) was placed 1m from the speakers. This is my usual listening position in the workroom.

I set the volume to 80 dB SPL using the REW pink noise calibration signal (Check levels). As you see the level exceeds 90dB SPL (+10dB) around 55Hz, 138Hz and 315Hz due to the room gain. These are too much bass. I didn't have this problem because my current desktop speakers don't produce much bass. I will either:
1) Use the F6B in the living room instead of the workroom. Equalization will be easier in the living room. (Because it's more spacious.)
2) Replace the DAC in the workroom (Topping D30Pro) with one that has PEQ, such as the Topping DX5II or miniDSP Flex, and adjust the peaks at 55 Hz, 138 Hz, and 315 Hz.

As expected, distortions were low. Thanks for the great product, Ascilab.

 

[Selkirks]

1 ) Use the F6B in the living room instead of the workroom. Equalization will be easier in the living room. (Because it's more spacious.)

I originally bought C6B's for my workstation but ran in to similar issues. Now they are backup duty in my living room. Great speakers.

 

[jEDGEc0m]

Let me share my measurements.

I received the Ascilab F6B speakers this week. I knew about the speakers' bass extension (-3 dB @ 56 Hz / -6 dB @ 46 Hz) before ordering them, but the level of bass response was greater than I expected. This is good news, but it has exposed a forgotten problem – room gain or standing wave of my small room.

This is the FR in my living room. The red line is the F6B and the blue line is the Revel M105 I am currently using in my living room.

View attachment 465708
Looks fine except for the dip around 50Hz. As you see, F6B has more bass level than M105. (Note: The M105 and the F6B were measured in the same position. However, this is not my usual listening position.)

The following graph shows the FR of the F6B on the desk in my small workroom. The red line is the left channel and the green line is the right channel. The measurement microphone (miniDSP UMIK-1) was placed 1m from the speakers. This is my usual listening position in the workroom.
View attachment 465709
I set the volume to 80 dB SPL using the REW pink noise calibration signal (Check levels). As you see the level exceeds 90dB SPL (+10dB) around 55Hz, 138Hz and 315Hz due to the room gain. These are too much bass. I didn't have this problem because my current desktop speakers don't produce much bass. I will either:
1) Use the F6B in the living room instead of the workroom. Equalization will be easier in the living room. (Because it's more spacious.)
2) Replace the DAC in the workroom (Topping D30Pro) with one that has PEQ, such as the Topping DX5II or miniDSP Flex, and adjust the peaks at 55 Hz, 138 Hz, and 315 Hz.

As expected, distortions were low. Thanks for the great product, Ascilab.
View attachment 465711

Thank you for your detailed information and measurements.

It does seem like it will always be "better" (necessary?) to measure and eq for the room regardless - I value this capacity.

What I find fairly interesting - and I guess it's because the measurements are from fairly close to the speakers - is that there isn't actually all that much downward tilt with your F6B measurements >1khz. But do see a little more than the M105. which seems to be what might expected.

Considering the M105 are quite a bit wider and less even in horizontal dispersion, did you feel that was making much difference at living room listening position range?

Certainly seems like in your desktop setup, eq to flatten/attenuate up to ~400hz seems like it might make a pretty drastic and favourable difference. it's great that the Topping DX5II has separate PEQ for each stereo channel.

Congratulations on your purchase, and thanks again for your impressions and measurements.

 

[oal]

Considering the M105 are quite a bit wider and less even in horizontal dispersion, did you feel that was making much difference at living room listening position range?

Certainly seems like in your desktop setup, eq to flatten/attenuate up to ~400hz seems like it might make a pretty drastic and favourable difference. it's great that the Topping DX5II has separate PEQ for each stereo channel.

Actually, I haven't listened to the F6B at the usual listening position in the living room yet, because the M105 speakers are bolted to the speaker stands. To put the F6B on the stand, I would first have to remove the bolts. I expect that the F6B will probably need to be turned inward a bit ("toe-in").

I ran a quick test with Roon PEQ and got good results. Topping DX5II’s separate PEQ for each stereo channel should be perfect. Thank you for your feedback.

 

[jEDGEc0m]

Actually, I haven't listened to the F6B at the usual listening position in the living room yet, because the M105 speakers are bolted to the speaker stands. To put the F6B on the stand, I would first have to remove the bolts. I expect that the F6B will probably need to be turned inward a bit ("toe-in").

I ran a quick test with Roon PEQ and got good results. Topping DX5II’s separate PEQ for each stereo channel should be perfect. Thank you for your feedback.

Early days, and should be years of enjoyment. Seems like both your listening spaces will be well served with either the F6B or M105. a very nice pair of pairs!
Living room might enjoy a subwoofer or two ;-)

Enjoy!

 

[tonyrob]

Let me share my measurements.

I received the Ascilab F6B speakers this week. I knew about the speakers' bass extension (-3 dB @ 56 Hz / -6 dB @ 46 Hz) before ordering them, but the level of bass response was greater than I expected. This is good news, but it has exposed a forgotten problem – room gain or standing wave of my small room.

Thank you for sharing your measurement!!

 

[jEDGEc0m]

Better stay at tweeter height but a bit above or under is still ok.
Horizontally, better toe-in the speakers by 10/15deg and have the axis crossing in front of the listening location, might help dosing the upper range.

I was wondering, particularly with a speaker with pretty wide range of controlled vertical directivity, might there be some advantage in a typical room to having the speakers mounted either lower, or higher? (say with ~2.4m high ceiling, and ~2m listening distance)

REW room sim seems to indicate that if you're rolling off to subs maybe ~80hz, there might be some advantage to having speakers higher from floor (maybe even half room height), reducing a some dips, like one that might manifest around 115Hz (3.5x3.5x2.4m). At 2m listening distance, there's more than 1m vertical range to still be within 15 degrees.

Also, regarding toe-in to cross in front of listening position, it's free to try, and I feel I've had fine enough results doing so with a few speakers with some kind of waveguide or another - but what is meant by "dosing the upper range", and why? (Apologies if this kind of information is elsewhere...)

I figured a benefit of aggressive toe-in is that it puts out less sound to the nearer side wall, which might give more attention to the direct sound.

 

[Maiky76]

I was wondering, particularly with a speaker with pretty wide range of controlled vertical directivity, might there be some advantage in a typical room to having the speakers mounted either lower, or higher? (say with ~2.4m high ceiling, and ~2m listening distance)

REW room sim seems to indicate that if you're rolling off to subs maybe ~80hz, there might be some advantage to having speakers higher from floor (maybe even half room height), reducing a some dips, like one that might manifest around 115Hz (3.5x3.5x2.4m). At 2m listening distance, there's more than 1m vertical range to still be within 15 degrees.

Also, regarding toe-in to cross in front of listening position, it's free to try, and I feel I've had fine enough results doing so with a few speakers with some kind of waveguide or another - but what is meant by "dosing the upper range", and why? (Apologies if this kind of information is elsewhere...)

I figured a benefit of aggressive toe-in is that it puts out less sound to the nearer side wall, which might give more attention to the direct sound.

If you look at the LW (Listening Window) graph, you'll notice that toe-in allows you to shape the high-frequency direct response, which in turn affects the perceived tonal balance of the speaker.
Additionally, rotating the speaker alters the spinorama data. For example, toeing in the speaker by 15 degrees effectively shifts the on-axis reference to the original 15° response. In this case, the original 30° becomes 45°, and the original 0° is now 15°, and so on.
While the sound power remains unchanged, early reflections and the Directivity Index are affected, which influences how the speaker is perceived tonally.
This provides a way to adjust the balance of the speaker without using EQ.
Also, the closer you are to the speakers, the more dominant the direct sound becomes in what you hear.
As a result, small changes in speaker orientation can have a noticeable impact—especially in nearfield or desktop setups. At close distances, the direct sound contributes a larger portion of what you hear compared to reflected energy, so adjusting toe-in becomes an even more effective way to fine-tune the tonal balance without EQ.

When it comes to speaker placement, I’ll have to rely on your simulations. That said, using multiple subwoofers combined with satellite speakers is generally a solid approach for improving room integration as discussed in Geddes' paper on multiple subs.

In the past, I’ve had good results using the RPG Room Optimizer. While one can't expect a perfect one-to-one match between simulations and real-world measurements, such tools can still offer a valuable starting point for setup and tuning.

 

[jEDGEc0m]

If you look at the LW (Listening Window) graph, you'll notice that toe-in allows you to shape the high-frequency direct response, which in turn affects the perceived tonal balance of the speaker.
Additionally, rotating the speaker alters the spinorama data. For example, toeing in the speaker by 15 degrees effectively shifts the on-axis reference to the original 15° response. In this case, the original 30° becomes 45°, and the original 0° is now 15°, and so on.
While the sound power remains unchanged, early reflections and the Directivity Index are affected, which influences how the speaker is perceived tonally.
This provides a way to adjust the balance of the speaker without using EQ.
Also, the closer you are to the speakers, the more dominant the direct sound becomes in what you hear.
As a result, small changes in speaker orientation can have a noticeable impact—especially in nearfield or desktop setups. At close distances, the direct sound contributes a larger portion of what you hear compared to reflected energy, so adjusting toe-in becomes an even more effective way to fine-tune the tonal balance without EQ.
View attachment 467772
When it comes to speaker placement, I’ll have to rely on your simulations. That said, using multiple subwoofers combined with satellite speakers is generally a solid approach for improving room integration as discussed in Geddes' paper on multiple subs.

In the past, I’ve had good results using the RPG Room Optimizer. While one can't expect a perfect one-to-one match between simulations and real-world measurements, such tools can still offer a valuable starting point for setup and tuning.

Thank you for your detailed response - much appreciated. I think I understand a little better.

When listening at distance beyond nearfield, presumably the extra influence of the reflected sound will still impact perceived tonality, and toe-in toe-out can be used to affect what's heard.

I didn't know about RPG Room Optimzer - might check it out and see what it indicates.

Thanks again.

 

[Deleted member 88295]

I have been listening to the C6B for a couple of hours now. Had to start messing with EQ because of too much bass, going to let it rest for a while and try again later when my head is cleared.

 

[Purité Audio]

Acoustically measure your room with a microphone and REW, always worthwhile.
Keith

 

[Ktacos]

Too much bass in a speaker this size is a good problem to have, easily EQ'able.

 

[Deleted member 88295]

It got it to my liking, fairly steep from 220Hz down. It's weird that my other speakers that have a 8inch bandpass have 0 bass gain. I also had many years a go bookshelves and can't recall them having it either. Anyway now that is sorted out I can listen without being distracted.

 

[archerious]

Man these still aren't back for sale. ASR must've caused months of backorders .

 

[tw 2022]

Man these still aren't back for sale. ASR must've caused months of backorders .

Happened with the Dbr 62s as well , anything that rates high on the Klippel and is priced right gets less affordable almost instantly..

 

[Purité Audio]

Our pricing hasn’t changed, interest and demand has hugely increased since Amir’s and Erin’s reviews.
Keith

 

[tw 2022]

Our pricing hasn’t changed, interest and demand has hugely increased since Amir’s and Erin’s reviews.
Keith

agreed .... the dbr 62's stayed the same price for a while as well... but I do hope you guys can be more like philharmonic audio and ascend (pricing in regards to what's equitable to everyone involved, including buyers) , rather than elac who seems to price according to "what they can get"... I'm really rooting for you guys to maximize integrity... so far it seems to be the case...

 

[staticV3]

agreed .... the dbr 62's stayed the same price for a while as well... but I do hope you guys can be more like philharmonic audio and ascend (pricing in regards to what's equitable to everyone involved, including buyers) , rather than elac who seems to price according to "what they can get"... I'm really rooting for you guys to maximize integrity... so far it seems to be the case...

Tons of retailers in Germany have the DBR62 for like 350-400€ per pair.

It's been at that price for ages, so I'm not sure I would attribute high prices elsewhere directly to Elac.