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dlaloum

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I have Kef R series for LCR and with RZ50 they didn’t sound as confident as they do with 4800
Yes the X4800 has a smidge more than the RZ50...

I use external Crown XLS2500's... 440W@8ohm, 1200W@2ohm - they have substantial "authority"
 

drelldrell

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I am curious how you used the app to flatten the output in the last graph with the front and subs. Did you use only the app or other software/devices? I have the app and X4880H that I will setup tomorrow. Any reference materials or links to guidance is appreciate.

I am familiar with the app but don’t recall front/sub integration options.
It is likely that Audyssey removed the room gain that you might have been used to. Below is an example from my FR graphs plotted a few years ago when I was just playing around:

Here you can see that Audyssey flatten the bass between 15 and 300 Hz significantly as it was supposed to do because Audyssey's default target curve in that range is flat.
In doing so, it cut the bass between 20 and 37 Hz, and also between 70 and 120 Hz.

The combine effect would be noticeable weaker bass. Now if your in room response has more room gain than mine, then the perceived bass cut effects could be much more.
If you purchase the $20 Editor app, you can easily put a tilt to the target curve to get the bass back to the level you prefer.


View attachment 270651

Another example:

View attachment 270653

And if you spent enough time on the app, you can also get it very flat, and then add a tilt to increase the deep bass:

View attachment 270655
 

Cappie

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I was able to get more bass out of the subs changing the settings like you recommended not a lot, but they are actually producing bass. My poor MartinLogans are still lifeless and harsh sounding, and they sound worse with Audyssey turned on. When I went to demo the speakers at a few places they were running Denon AVR's so I know they can sound great. I'm going to mess around with it more this weekend.
I set my 4800 up just doing a quick manual setting for distance, setting speakers to small and the subs shake the room. Literally. I haven't run Audyssey yet, but I am quite impressed so far with the overall sound experience. You may want to do a factory reset, make sure that you have installed the latest firmware and if the low end and overall sound isn't impressive, I'd get a different unit. Good luck.
 

peng

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I am curious how you used the app to flatten the output in the last graph with the front and subs. Did you use only the app or other software/devices? I have the app and X4880H that I will setup tomorrow. Any reference materials or links to guidance is appreciate.

I am familiar with the app but don’t recall front/sub integration options.

With Audyssey, it is not an option as such, it just does in automatically when you run auto setup.

Audyssey XT32 with Sub EQ HT will time align two independently driven subwoofers. It also measures the delay for each speaker so in a way it also time aligns speakers, and the independently driven subs. With or without the app, you can also set the crossover points for each pair of the speakers. 80 Hz is typically good in most cases but if take your own measurements with REW, you can find the best crossover points for subs to "integrate" better.

If you are interested, I started an user thread on Audioholics that you can have a look. Everything I need to say about this should be in that thread already.
I am sure there must be one on AVS forum as well, by others.


And if you are crazy enough to want the smoothest possible response in the deep bass, you can use Ratbuddyssey (free download) or a pay 3rd party one. For Rat, take a look of the following posts:


Without using Ratbuddyssey, you should be able to get a curve from 20-150 Hz within +/- 5 dB, 1/12 smoothing. Audyssey XT32 subeq ht is really good for the bass, DL is better, but Audyssey is way better than ARCG, in my experience that is..
 

drelldrell

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With Audyssey, it is not an option as such, it just does in automatically when you run auto setup.

Audyssey XT32 with Sub EQ HT will time align two independently driven subwoofers. It also measures the delay for each speaker so in a way it also time aligns speakers, and the independently driven subs. With or without the app, you can also set the crossover points for each pair of the speakers. 80 Hz is typically good in most cases but if take your own measurements with REW, you can find the best crossover points for subs to "integrate" better.

If you are interested, I started an user thread on Audioholics that you can have a look. Everything I need to say about this should be in that thread already.
I am sure there must be one on AVS forum as well, by others.


And if you are crazy enough to want the smoothest possible response in the deep bass, you can use Ratbuddyssey (free download) or a pay 3rd party one. For Rat, take a look of the following posts:


Without using Ratbuddyssey, you should be able to get a curve from 20-150 Hz within +/- 5 dB, 1/12 smoothing. Audyssey XT32 subeq ht is really good for the bass, DL is better, but Audyssey is way better than ARCG, in my experience that is..
Thank you.
 
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With Audyssey, it is not an option as such, it just does in automatically when you run auto setup.

Audyssey XT32 with Sub EQ HT will time align two independently driven subwoofers. It also measures the delay for each speaker so in a way it also time aligns speakers, and the independently driven subs. With or without the app, you can also set the crossover points for each pair of the speakers. 80 Hz is typically good in most cases but if take your own measurements with REW, you can find the best crossover points for subs to "integrate" better.

If you are interested, I started an user thread on Audioholics that you can have a look. Everything I need to say about this should be in that thread already.
I am sure there must be one on AVS forum as well, by others.


And if you are crazy enough to want the smoothest possible response in the deep bass, you can use Ratbuddyssey (free download) or a pay 3rd party one. For Rat, take a look of the following posts:


Without using Ratbuddyssey, you should be able to get a curve from 20-150 Hz within +/- 5 dB, 1/12 smoothing. Audyssey XT32 subeq ht is really good for the bass, DL is better, but Audyssey is way better than ARCG, in my experience that is..
I’ve not used Audyssey before, but have read that you can produce your own house curves using the $/£20 app. Is Ratbuddyssey the freeware equivalent?

There’s also the $/£200 pc app but is this a more DIY approach to get the best out of Audyssey?

I don’t mind a bit of manual tweaking as even though my current Arcam has Dirac Live, I’ve still had to use REW and a minidsp to time align the subs as the Arcam has an internally split double sub output.
 

peng

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I’ve not used Audyssey before, but have read that you can produce your own house curves using the $/£20 app. Is Ratbuddyssey the freeware equivalent?

There’s also the $/£200 pc app but is this a more DIY approach to get the best out of Audyssey?

I don’t mind a bit of manual tweaking as even though my current Arcam has Dirac Live, I’ve still had to use REW and a minidsp to time align the subs as the Arcam has an internally split double sub output.

Ratbuddyssey is an user interface that make it easier to modify the target curves with the $20 app. It can do most of the things that the $200 Mult EQ X app can do but is less user friendly.

Again, it is just a UI, for use with the Multeq editor app.

 

bungle

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Now sold directly by Amazon and price is about the same:

23DC2B82-6005-43F0-B9B1-C56BF881F988.jpeg
 
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Ratbuddyssey is an user interface that make it easier to modify the target curves with the $20 app. It can do most of the things that the $200 Mult EQ X app can do but is less user friendly.

Again, it is just a UI, for use with the Multeq editor app.

Thanks for this. So in general terms, is there a progression in terms of Audyssey apps?
So, you’d really want the editor app @$20. Ratbuddysey is a free adjunct to this.
Where does this leave the $200 pc app. I’ve read some people’s opinion that it bests Dirac. But is this mainly to do with being able to focus on an individual speaker?
The benefit of Dirac for me is, yes, you need to take a few measurements and they have to be done correctly but after this, it does what it does pretty well with only a limited ‘learning curve’ required.
 

GXAlan

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Thanks for this. So in general terms, is there a progression in terms of Audyssey apps?
So, you’d really want the editor app @$20. Ratbuddysey is a free adjunct to this.
Where does this leave the $200 pc app. I’ve read some people’s opinion that it bests Dirac. But is this mainly to do with being able to focus on an individual speaker?
The benefit of Dirac for me is, yes, you need to take a few measurements and they have to be done correctly but after this, it does what it does pretty well with only a limited ‘learning curve’ required.
Agree.

You definitely want the editor app since it’s the only way to remove the mid-range compensation dip that just doesn’t sound great. Perhaps we’re getting a boosted midrange but the app lets you do that.

The app saves settings in a TEXT file. Ratbuddysey lets you use REW and then modify the TEXT file for your target curve and lets Audyssey do its thing.

The Pro has lots of features and the benefit of a calibrated mic. Audyssey is based upon a lot of science from USC and may very well be inaudibly different from Dirac. Before pro, you couldn’t use a calibrated mic.

That said, if you look at a UMIK, I bet lot to lot variability isn’t that high and it might only be a 1 dB difference. Moving your seat may already make a bigger difference. What is nice about the $200 app is that it is everything. Dirac keeps getting more and more expensive.

Dirac ART would be completely new though.
 

peng

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Thanks for this. So in general terms, is there a progression in terms of Audyssey apps?
So, you’d really want the editor app @$20. Ratbuddysey is a free adjunct to this.
Yes it is a free download but I would imagine you can make a donation if you like.
For some reason it is hard to find the download link to the version I am using, that is, v0.3.0.3 but here it is:

Where does this leave the $200 pc app. I’ve read some people’s opinion that it bests Dirac. But is this mainly to do with being able to focus on an individual speaker?
The $200 PC app has a much better (no comparison really) user interface and can do more, such as PEQ, that is not really PEQ but it works the same way in that you would enter the magnitude of the cut/boost and Q, the app will then create the FIR filters based on the input information. The results should be better than real PEQ, in my understanding/opinion.

The $200 app at the moment (at launch time, unless it has changed now) can only make changes on per speaker pairs basis, except of course it can do the center channel and the subs too. Ironically, the $20 app is the one that let you work on "individual speaker" if you use Ratbuddyssey with it. Why not read up on both and then decide?

I did play with the $200 app demo using the virtual AVR option, and I like what I say but in my opinion it is not worth $180 more than the $20 Denon/Marantz app. You should try the demo, it's free anyway:


and should also watch the Sound United/Audyssey video:


And then read up on Ratbuddyssey, on AVSF, as well as the thread on Audioholics that I linked earlier:





The benefit of Dirac for me is, yes, you need to take a few measurements and they have to be done correctly but after this, it does what it does pretty well with only a limited ‘learning curve’ required.

I actually find Dirac Live easier to use if you like to play around with the target curve, after the initial learning curve. It is also highly effective, not much more so than Audyssey in the bass range, but it is better with the higher frequencies, to me anyway.
 

ryaneagon

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I was hoping to get some info regarding the x4800h vs the Marantz Cinema 40. Doing some research, these 2 AVR's are nearly identical on paper, but the Cinema 40 is $1,000 more. Why is this? I'm looking at both these AVR's also, I'm looking at the Anthem MRX 1140. 50/50 movies, and music. Just curious if there are any real-world differences. I planned to purchase a 3-channel amp to help take some load off the AVR, I use Polk R700 fronts and Polk L400 Center, and all 3 could benefit from an external amp, saving $1000 is all good in my book, but I don't dropping more $ on the 40 if it's justified. I'm also reading most who own an Anthem think it is more musical than Denon or Marantz, especially 2 channel playback, not sure how it's more musical...
 
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enricoclaudio

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My personal experience. I owned three Marantz receivers: SR7008, NR1606 and SR6013. For movies, they were fine. For music, not. I hated them for music. They made my speakers sound harsh and cased ear fatigue. Then switched to Denon X6500H, X6700H, X4700H and X4800H. Denons are another history. They sound great with music and movies. My advice, go with the X4800H and put the savings in acoustic panels.
 

peng

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I was hoping to get some info regarding the x4800h vs the Marantz Cinema 40. Doing some research, these 2 AVR's are nearly identical on paper, but the Cinema 40 is $1,000 more. Why is this? I'm looking at both these AVR's also, I'm looking at the Anthem MRX 1140. 50/50 movies, and music. Just curious if there are any real-world differences. I planned to purchase a 3-channel amp to help take some load off the AVR, I use Polk R700 fronts and Polk L400 Center, and all 3 could benefit from an external amp, saving $1000 is all good in my book, but I don't dropping more $ on the 40 if it's justified. I'm also reading most who own an Anthem think it is more musical than Denon or Marantz, especially 2 channel playback, not sure how it's more musical...

In Europe, the Marantz costs $200 to 300 more. In Singapore, that apparently costs about the same. So, based on value, if you are in the USA or Canada, get the 4800, unless you you are willing to pay $1000 more for the better look.
 

ArturoKiwi

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My personal experience. I owned three Marantz receivers: SR7008, NR1606 and SR6013. For movies, they were fine. For music, not. I hated them for music. They made my speakers sound harsh and cased ear fatigue. Then switched to Denon X6500H, X6700H, X4700H and X4800H. Denons are another history. They sound great with music and movies. My advice, go with the X4800H and put the savings in acoustic panels.
@peng did you ever own a Denon? If so, you could be the one that could say his opinion/preference between Marantz Denon and Anthem in movie and music reproduction.
In Italy everybody say that Marantz is more musical and Denon more punchy, do I belive more for action movie
 

ban25

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@peng did you ever own a Denon? If so, you could be the one that could say his opinion/preference between Marantz Denon and Anthem in movie and music reproduction.
In Italy everybody say that Marantz is more musical and Denon more punchy, do I belive more for action movie
To the (highly debatable) extent that any brand of audio component has a sound signature, it is erased completely as soon as room correction EQ is applied. Indeed, you can create your own sound signature, I for one use MultEQ-X to boost my bass below 120 hz +4 dB and I roll off the highs by -3 dB starting around 18 kHz.
 

ArturoKiwi

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To the (highly debatable) extent that any brand of audio component has a sound signature, it is erased completely as soon as room correction EQ is applied. Indeed, you can create your own sound signature, I for one use MultEQ-X to boost my bass below 120 hz +4 dB and I roll off the highs by -3 dB starting around 18 kHz.
I could trust you, but if I read well, the above post of enricoclaudio tell a differnt story
 

HarmonicTHD

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Yes it is a free download but I would imagine you can make a donation if you like.
For some reason it is hard to find the download link to the version I am using, that is, v0.3.0.3 but here it is:


The $200 PC app has a much better (no comparison really) user interface and can do more, such as PEQ, that is not really PEQ but it works the same way in that you would enter the magnitude of the cut/boost and Q, the app will then create the FIR filters based on the input information. The results should be better than real PEQ, in my understanding/opinion.

The $200 app at the moment (at launch time, unless it has changed now) can only make changes on per speaker pairs basis, except of course it can do the center channel and the subs too. Ironically, the $20 app is the one that let you work on "individual speaker" if you use Ratbuddyssey with it. Why not read up on both and then decide?

I did play with the $200 app demo using the virtual AVR option, and I like what I say but in my opinion it is not worth $180 more than the $20 Denon/Marantz app. You should try the demo, it's free anyway:


and should also watch the Sound United/Audyssey video:


And then read up on Ratbuddyssey, on AVSF, as well as the thread on Audioholics that I linked earlier:







I actually find Dirac Live easier to use if you like to play around with the target curve, after the initial learning curve. It is also highly effective, not much more so than Audyssey in the bass range, but it is better with the higher frequencies, to me anyway.
The MultiEQX software can do what you describe here by now incl Import from REW filters. Among other new features. For details check the release history in the MS App Store. It gets updated regularly with the most recent one some 4 weeks ago or so.
 

peng

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@peng did you ever own a Denon? If so, you could be the one that could say his opinion/preference between Marantz Denon and Anthem in movie and music reproduction.
In Italy everybody say that Marantz is more musical and Denon more punchy, do I belive more for action movie

I owned/own multiple Denon and Marantz products. To me they didn't/don't sound different enough for me to say one is better in music or movies.

I guess people may experience such perceived difference for other reasons, some are likely influenced by non hardware related factors such as dsp functions, hearsay, and groupthink.
 

peng

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The MultiEQX software can do what you describe here by now incl Import from REW filters. Among other new features. For details check the release history in the MS App Store. It gets updated regularly with the most recent one some 4 weeks ago or so.

I know that, and for $180 more I do expect it be much better than the $20 app.
 
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