Advice on AVR - how would you spend your money?

[CapMan]

agree that AVRs for critical music listening is silly concept. For many, it is a necessary evil until they have the resources and a dedicated space for 2 channel listening and separate components (assuming they are even in to that sort of thing).

I’m calling b>€shit on that statement. It’s a lazy, sweeping generalisation/audiophile caricature .

I’ve downsized from expensive HiFi separates to a Denon X4800 with no degradation I can hear. The measurements on the Denon suggest it’s plenty good enough to be audibly transparent in a real room, even more so with Dirac / Audyssey being used.

I have dealt with my listening room and am using speakers that measure well with very even dispersion.

 

[Edward W. Stanley]

Did you mean to say that only Marantz and Yamaha provide AVRs that are adequate for 2 channel music listening? The OP is looking for the best home theater receiver based on its 2 channel music performance.

"Any" top of the line AVR from "Any" major vendor will push more than enough of power to stereo speakers. If they don't push enough power for enjoyment. I want those speakers.

My CV SL-15s in stereo on the 8015 enjoy the experience. I can hit the ceiling on my setup of maximum quality sound when I try to push it, the problem if you can call it that, is I can only to listen to it for 5 to 10 minutes without ear protection. Again I regret nothing.

Hard to say the volume at the time. For it differs depending on speakers used, filters set or changes to the center channel.

Roughly i'd say it gets to about 50% power usage before I need to dial it back.

If i had to guess, its somewhere between -20 to +3 on the volume dial side, depending on the source, type, etc. It's a wide range for dial settings I know, roughly most of the time 80% -15 / to -8. +3 center. Ecomode off.
.
My setup 8015, 3x SL-15, 2x SL-12s, 2x SL-8s.

Caveat I do listen to it mostly in 7.0.

If the OP heard what happens when you put those speakers in extended stereo mode, I wouldn't need to explain my argument.

You could set the speakers in "stereo" placement around the TV and turn it on. It's just as fxcking deadly as "surround mode" or as I imagine atmos is as well.

I still stand by my point, get whichever brand, my preference is Marantz, their top of the line options firstly, second but it could be a coin toss, the top of the line Yamaha.

I see some want the denon clone. It's likely the close to the same effect as the marantz. The torrodial thingy, does help.

 

[DeepCuttaBeats]

I’m calling b>€shit on that statement. It’s a lazy, sweeping generalisation/audiophile caricature .

I’ve downsized from expensive HiFi separates to a Denon X4800 with no degradation I can hear. The measurements on the Denon suggest it’s plenty good enough to be audibly transparent in a real room, even more so with Dirac / Audyssey being used.

I have dealt with my listening room and am using speakers that measure well with very even dispersion.

I’ve had excellent music experiences in my theater with DIRAC. But it could be even better if I pull my speakers out 3 feet from the walls. But my theater would look real weird and the space wouldn’t be as useable. Compromises are usually introduced when mixing theater and music listening. Not always though I suppose.

 

[Edward W. Stanley]

I’ve had excellent music experiences in my theater with DIRAC. But it could be even better if I pull my speakers out 3 feet from the walls. But my theater would look real weird and the space wouldn’t be as useable. Compromises are usually introduced when mixing theater and music listening. Not always though I suppose.

I was wondering about this as lots of reviews said they were closely priced and many threads I read said get the Marantz based on that fact. I think this might have been true in the UK until the December sales started where the Denon products seem to have gotten significant price cuts but the similar Marantz products haven't been as deeply discounted.

Am I correct in think th Marantz products are being priced one up vs their Denon counterparts as in the Cinema 50 (£1299) is actually closer to the X3800 (£899) and the Cinema 40 (£1899) is closer to the X4800 (£1449)? That being the case I think I'll eliminate the Marantz products as that is a significant mark up.

Denon AVR-X3800H (£899) / Marantz Cinema 60 (£999)
Denon AVC-X4800H (£1449) / Marantz Cinema 50 (£1299) / Denon AVC-X6700 (£1399)
Marantz Cinema 40 (£1899) / Marantz Cinema 70 (£679) + IOTAVX AVXP1 Power Amp (£1188) / Marantz SR8015 (£1599)


Effectively leaves the choice being Denon AVR-X3800H (£899) vs Denon AVC-X4800H (£1449). Can I justify that extra £550? That would get me a Monitor Audio Silver C250 7G centre speaker.

Don't even bother with those crappy center channels, go full size, always.

 

[jjk]

My favorite music for "critical" listening is multichannel by far.



There are some mid priced Denons tested on here that offer cd quality reproduction in multi channel. Steven Wilson is one of the best mixers alive and he is doubtfully he can hear the difference past Redbook. He is the guy who mixes the stuff that makes you drop 10 k on a room. I don't remember the article but he said it recently. The whole two channel audio is the only valid way to critically listen to music is ending. The technology is totally leaning toward multichannel now and the ability to listen to it in an environment where the tech can correct the acoustics using the speakers is mind blowing.

Outstanding Steven Wilson reference!

 

[rynberg]

I’ve had excellent music experiences in my theater with DIRAC. But it could be even better if I pull my speakers out 3 feet from the walls. But my theater would look real weird and the space wouldn’t be as useable. Compromises are usually introduced when mixing theater and music listening. Not always though I suppose.

So you make these sweeping generalizations because you can't pull your speakers out 3 feet from the walls? Um, OK.

 

[thunderchicken]

I actually moved from a Denon to an Anthem MRX. I got a B stock unit shipped under $1000 and haven’t had any trouble. ARC works great, was easy to set up, and now I just enjoy it. If you can find one of those deals, go for it.

 

[DeepCuttaBeats]

So you make these sweeping generalizations because you can't pull your speakers out 3 feet from the walls? Um, OK.

Do you have a point to make?

 

[hash70]

you could do what I did,pick up a second av with all the latest trued/dolby atoms ect,use its pre outs only an nd then a used 7channel amp like arcam p1000 ,I got the arcam
7channel p1000 for £350,and Marantz 6012 av for £200

 

[StigErik]

Don't even bother with those crappy center channels, go full size, always.

Compromising on the center channel is one of the biggest mistakes people do with home theatres. After all, it’s the most important speaker. Same with the surrounds - small speakers tucked away in less than ideal positions. Always try to have identical speakers for all channels in a surround system, and set them up properly in the room!

In most cases, stereo with two good speakers would be a lot better I think.

 

[Vacceo]

Compromising on the center channel is one of the biggest mistakes people do with home theatres. After all, it’s the most important speaker. Same with the surrounds - small speakers tucked away in less than ideal positions. Always try to have identical speakers for all channels in a surround system, and set them up properly in the room!

In most cases, stereo with two good speakers would be a lot better I think.

Often times having a base layer of full towers is quite impractical. Considering that on the sides and back we humans loose perception, you can get away with bookshelves and a subwoofer. Matching series, in that case, is a good idea due to tonality.

 

[Oddball]

Often times having a base layer of full towers is quite impractical. Considering that on the sides and back we humans loose perception, you can get away with bookshelves and a subwoofer. Matching series, in that case, is a good idea due to tonality.

Sometimes it is impractical, often too expensive. I actually had all of my bed layer full of towers or last 30+ years as it was really easy to place them in big or big-er rooms and I could just pick them up and move them without the need to "install" them in the new room. Perhaps a niche comment though.

 

[Oddball]

Compromising on the center channel is one of the biggest mistakes people do with home theatres. After all, it’s the most important speaker. Same with the surrounds - small speakers tucked away in less than ideal positions. Always try to have identical speakers for all channels in a surround system, and set them up properly in the room!

In most cases, stereo with two good speakers would be a lot better I think.

I do wholeheartedly agree with you but lot of times it is a difficult choice. People want as big and bad towers for 2.0 as they can afford and most companies will sell you "matching" dwarf center to go with your towers, of course at good price as small and not really matching in any respect. Difficult to advise when budget is a concern, but having 5 bed layer speakers as close as they can get is what people should aim for. A way forward from that system could always be to add bigger LCR line and reposition rest to 7.x.x or 9.x.x when there is a windfall or ability to do so.

 

[thunderchicken]

What I’ve noticed is that with most towers in HT applications is that it takes a lot more effort to integrate a sub. My bookshelf speakers were easy because the crossover was two octaves higher. It only took a couple of minutes with test tracks to dial bass management in around 100hz on the RSL.

My towers took forever to integrate the sub, even with actual bass management features. There was a gap between them and the sub somewhere in the 40s that I had to chase down, then adjust levels, then refine, etc. I like the big towers because they sound great at much higher levels than my bookshelf speakers, but they don’t go low enough to be worth the hassle. It might be time for an upgrade… they’re BA 10” towers from the early 90s.

 

[valerianf]

Looking for an AVR since many years, I still cannot pull the buy button.
Without problem of place or budget the Onkyo TX RZ70 and it's clones (Pionner, Integra) is the model to get.
It's plus:
Dirac live
Powerful amps 4 ohms capable and that stays only warm by default (not the Denon toaster)
Top end DAC
Very few bugs

But as the RZ70 is over dimensioned for my needs I am dreaming of the replacement of the Onkyo TX RZ50.

 

[pogo]

But as the RZ70 is over dimensioned for my needs I am dreaming of the replacement of the Onkyo TX RZ50.

I would look for an AVR from JBL, see also here: Link

 

[ban25]

Looking for an AVR since many years, I still cannot pull the buy button.
Without problem of place or budget the Onkyo TX RZ70 and it's clones (Pionner, Integra) is the model to get.
It's plus:
Dirac live
Powerful amps 4 ohms capable and that stays only warm by default (not the Denon toaster)
Top end DAC
Very few bugs

But as the RZ70 is over dimensioned for my needs I am dreaming of the replacement of the Onkyo TX RZ50.

The RZ50 was released in 2021, based on their old platform. It is likely due for a refresh in 2025 -- perhaps end of this year if we're lucky?