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Unfortunately for Denon and Audessey, it may be a few more years before they get a new purchase from me since my MultiEQ-X license is tied to my X4400H.
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Denon x3800h vs x4800h for sound?
- Thread starter Tiago Pimentel
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Your 4400 is about 6 years old? You probably can't even get a decent dinner for one after you average out that MuliEQ-X license fee over the years you've had the 4400!
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While you are not wrong, I have to disagree with your assertion!
I live in Seattle... I can't even get a decent dinner for one compared to the total cost I paid for the license (picked up on Black Friday pricing)
Buckchester
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I use Outlaw 2220 monoblocks with my x3800 to power my front left snd right speakers (Revel f208). I do not notice a difference in sound quality whatsoever. The main benefit the amps would provide is when I'm playing very loud there is less chance of clipping. Although I have measured the power consumption with a meter and I don't think I've seen it go much above 100 watts. And that was when I was playing very loud. I have subs too so that takes some load of the speaker amp power.
Where did you ever get it for 1K, authorized dealer, brand new or refurbished price?
Denon AVR-X3800H - $900.00
So the code CYBE2023 works on the 3800 also, making it $900! https://www.adorama.com/deavrx3800h.html
slickdeals.net
Randyman...
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Picked up a similar deal on a refurb + sale direct from Denon
Denon AVR-X3800H - $900.00
So the code CYBE2023 works on the 3800 also, making it $900! https://www.adorama.com/deavrx3800h.html
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I got one from accessories4less.com at about 900 and extended warranty. Been sitting here for almost a year. I think I used it twice. The 4500 is great but it is like 5 years old now. If I get another avr it will be something with a better dac. I don't know if I will upgrade again.
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Did you pick a 3800 up, Peng? I have one sitting here that i don't think I will ever use. It was purchased as an open box or something from accessories4less.com. it has extended warranty that can be transferred. I just figured i would offer and don't want to offend or break any rules. I honestly would pass it along deeply discounted becsue of the space it takes.
It is still sitting at Bestbuy, I changed my mind and decided not to pick it up (Bestbuy will cancel the order automatically if I don't pick it up within 3 days) because Black Friday is coming, and then Christmas, so I thought I should wait. The little AVR-X1800H will hold me over until then. Also, I listed the 1800 on eBay but no bite yet, so again it is better for me to wait. It is tricky to buy AC4L that is in the USA, they wouldn't even sell to Canada before but it seems that now they do.
If I could wait till next spring, the replacement model should be out by then, or the AVR-X1800H will drop further. In the mean time I may just add another sub to see if I could fill in a couple of dips in the 60 to 100 Hz range, even with just the two subouts that are not discrete. Other than that, there isn't really any reason to replace the X1800H.
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Audyssey XT32!
Of course, but not in this case because I use it with DLBC, PC standalone version.
Even with one small (8 inch) sub it sounds quite nice, REW curves look smooth enough with a few dips that a second sub may help and that's the only thing got me thinking of upgrading the AVR.
You've reminded me of something that OCA (A1 Nexus author) said and I think I read it on here too. Do people worry a little too much about dips? This doesn't necessarily apply to adding another sub. But isn't there a point beyond which if you try to remove/EQ them out you end up causing more harm than good?
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I share the view "smooth enough" but understand the obsession over perfectly flat curves as at times that was haunting me as well.
There are different considerations for different rooms as well. In a dedicated rectangular room of solid size, one could be pursuing perfection with the right gear. In multi purpose, large and irregularly shaped rooms with hallways, kitchens, etc. you end up compromising more and could spend immense time chasing perfection - and still not achieve it.
There are different considerations for different rooms as well. In a dedicated rectangular room of solid size, one could be pursuing perfection with the right gear. In multi purpose, large and irregularly shaped rooms with hallways, kitchens, etc. you end up compromising more and could spend immense time chasing perfection - and still not achieve it.
@peng , not sure if you've been actively monitoring prices but Amazon had the 3800 for well below $1k last night (still not a bad price even now). If you want better than the current Amazon price, there is an authorized retailer that still has it for less than $1k (barely).
Thanks, but you may recall I am in Canada. Amazon here has it on sale regularly (but not always) for CAD 1849 and 1899, exch range has been around 1.4 so you do the math..
Honestly, my little X1800H (sorry repeating often..) sounds really transparent when compared to my separates including the preamp and Bryston/Halo power amps I got rid of recently (so that's by memory only now, not too reliable for sure), so I am much more leaning on adding a SB1000 Pro and see if I could get a smoother curve just to meet the eyes, eyes only because I could never hear a difference between a near flat line curve and one that has a few dips. Obviously it depends on the whole curve, not just points, so can generalized any more than commenting on my own use cases.
For me, yes it is totally "obsession" only, as I don't have golden ears. I am always amazed by people reporting obvious audible improvement just by fixing the so called/exaggerated imo) distance "errors" due to the incorrect velocity of sound used in calculated the distance (Denon/Marantz never admitted it was an actual error, or one that matters). To me, that error don't matter because the mic/Multeq editor app measured delays, not distance anyway, but it's too complicated to argue anymore with anyone or AVSF, AV or here so suffice to say I am only mentioning this as an example, that it is perhaps (just perhaps) easy to understand why/how so many will not only chase the smoothest FR REW graph, but actually believe they could hear the smoother 20-200 Hz say within 1 dB to one that has a few narrow dips in the same range. To me, give people a reason (whether is it hdams, al24/32, 140 dB DR instead of just 120 dB, slew rate of 1000 instead of just 500, 20-20000Hz +/-1 dB vs -3 dB at 20,000 Hz etc etc etc...), some will believe, and even actually experience the claimed effects.
Let us leave the speed of sound discussion in the past It really depended on particular setup (speaker distances to MLP) so not that easy to say that some people might have not heard a tiny little improvement.
Just for the heck of it, I tried last night to adjust the phase of my front subs by 10 degrees (SVS DSP), and I think I could hear that difference. How much of a shift in frequency response that caused it is difficult to tell and not going to REW it out, but just reverse it as is was all set/optimized for no delay. It would definitively show in the time alignment graph though, so the graph would not be so pretty as before. Another thing to note is that it is not just as easy as adjusting the sub DSP - as engaging the sub DSP itself causes a delay, so if DSP was not engaged in REW graph, it will throw off time alignment more that just a nominal adjustment in phase. Also best to check if sub DSP does not introduce different delays for different functions.
I fully agree that +/- 1dB is impossible to hear and that is also tolerance of best common calibration mics. Going up to 2dB or even better 3dB dips/peaks could potentially be an issue when watching "reference" scenes that one knows well and they use dip/peak frequencies, but on any new or less known content it might just slide by. Going above that, unless something like 5hz wide dip, might be problematic and fixed if possible.
BTW, I am extremely happy with my Rotel 1070 amps and their 80dB SINAD - even Amir was for some reason merciful and recommended them. I will replace them with D class higher SINAD after they give up, but until then they are perfectly OK, even if potentially the weakest link in my system. A perfect proof that my ears are fortunately not golden elven ears. It must be difficult (and expensive) to have a pair of those
It really depended on particular setup (speaker distances to MLP) so not that easy to say that some people might have not heard a tiny little improvement. Just for the heck of it, I tried last night to adjust the phase of my front subs by 10 degrees (SVS DSP), and I think I could hear that difference. How much of a shift in frequency response that caused it is difficult to tell and not going to REW it out, but just reverse it as is was all set/optimized for no delay. It would definitively show in the time alignment graph though, so the graph would not be so pretty as before. Another thing to note is that it is not just as easy as adjusting the sub DSP - as engaging the sub DSP itself causes a delay, so if DSP was not engaged in REW graph, it will throw off time alignment more that just a nominal adjustment in phase. Also best to check if sub DSP does not introduce different delays for different functions.
I fully agree that +/- 1dB is impossible to hear and that is also tolerance of best common calibration mics. Going up to 2dB or even better 3dB dips/peaks could potentially be an issue when watching "reference" scenes that one knows well and they use dip/peak frequencies, but on any new or less known content it might just slide by. Going above that, unless something like 5hz wide dip, might be problematic and fixed if possible.
BTW, I am extremely happy with my Rotel 1070 amps and their 80dB SINAD - even Amir was for some reason merciful and recommended them. I will replace them with D class higher SINAD after they give up, but until then they are perfectly OK, even if potentially the weakest link in my system. A perfect proof that my ears are fortunately not golden elven ears. It must be difficult (and expensive) to have a pair of those
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It's not just the depth of the deviation, but the breadth as well. Toole has research on this, but 1 dB is easy to hear depending on the breadth of it, and there is a threshold (Q) where it starts to become audible. Generally, these artifacts in the bass region when caused by interference are pretty wide.
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Of course, but just to be clear, I did not mean that for you, as you probably know that I am one who typically would include the phrase "it depends.." to indicate under some conditions..., but I forgot in this case. I was thinking of/reacting to a couple posts on AVSF iirc, that it was very obvious to me, now back to the future...Let us leave the speed of sound discussion in the past
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