Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

[peng]

Yes, the RZ50 is 7.1.4 where the RZ30 is 5.2.4 (or 7.2.2)

Thanks, even with that facts, the RZ30 is, in my opinion a better choice for someone will only needs 5.1 and may have plan to expand to 9.1. That's because of the so called .2 vs the RZ50's .1. The RZ30 may have the lower spec DAC but even if it gets the PCM1690 or 5102A, it will still be good enough for people who don't have golden ears.

And, for someone like me who only want a preamp/dac for 2.2 stereo use, at the lowest price point (vs others), the RZ30 is as close as one can find, unless there exist a real 2.2 integrated amp or receiver but so far there is none, at least not within a $1,500 budget.

I don't know how Onko can do it at the $1,200 price point when D+M and Sony, who presumable have the advantage in terms of "economy of scale" cannot do, or at least have done it.

 

[EWL5]

Thanks, even with that facts, the RZ30 is, in my opinion a better choice for someone will only needs 5.1 and may have plan to expand to 9.1. That's because of the so called .2 vs the RZ50's .1. The RZ30 may have the lower spec DAC but even if it gets the PCM1690 or 5102A, it will still be good enough for people who don't have golden ears.

And, for someone like me who only want a preamp/dac for 2.2 stereo use, at the lowest price point (vs others), the RZ30 is as close as one can find, unless there exist a real 2.2 integrated amp or receiver but so far there is none, at least not within a $1,500 budget.

I don't know how Onko can do it at the $1,200 price point when D+M and Sony, who presumable have the advantage in terms of "economy of scale" cannot do, or at least have done it.

An industry insider on AVS mentioned that the RZ30 gets the better HDMI board from the RZ70 (and not the one from the RZ50). Looks like the list of improvements keeps growing for the RZ30!

 

[GXAlan]

I don't know how Onko can do it at the $1,200 price point when D+M and Sony, who presumable have the advantage in terms of "economy of scale" cannot do, or at least have done it.

I think Onkyo’s bankruptcy (and Pioneer Electronics) history in the context of Klipsch which is able to offer something like the Klipschorn which is one of the speakers that has been in continuous production the longest days a lot.

1) They are trying to rebuild the brand reputation after its bankruptcy
2) They understand consumer preferences and markets. By measurements, the classic Klipsch speakers should be avoided. By practice, Klipsch offers modern DSP speakers which measure great, even with a slight house tube but also has found a “fixed seasoning” sound that people like.

 

[voodooless]

I don't know how Onko can do it at the $1,200 price point when D+M and Sony, who presumable have the advantage in terms of "economy of scale" cannot do, or at least have done it.

With current prices of both Z30 and X3800h + Dirac Live, they only differ a few €. I'm not so sure the Z30 is still the better deal here.

 

[peng]

With current prices of both Z30 and X3800h + Dirac Live, they only differ a few €. I'm not so sure the Z30 is still the better deal here.

But you are comparing the RZ30's list price to the X3800H's sales price right? At the moment I would still go with the X3800H but only at the best street price level (such as Black Friday's, I guess).

 

[voodooless]

But you are comparing the RZ30's list price to the X3800H's sales price right?

No, I'm looking at the cheapest prices I can buy either AVR for in my area.

 

[ban25]

No, I'm looking at the cheapest prices I can buy either AVR for in my area.

Yeah but the RZ30 is so new, it's unlikely to be heavily discounted, where the X3800H can often be found under $1000.

 

[Timcognito]

X3800H can often be found under $1000.

Plus $300 for Dirac w/o the bass management so RZ50 with the power overload fixed for $8-900 w/Dirac is a steal if one one has modest setup w/one sub. What am I missing about the RZ30?

 

[peng]

I am 90% sure the X3900H will have the ES2017 like the X6800H and Cinema 30 do. If that happens I should be able to get the 3800 for < C$1,500.. Been wrong before, but based on D+M past practice, I would lijely be right this time.

 

[ban25]

Plus $300 for Dirac w/o the bass management so RZ50 with the power overload fixed for $8-900 w/Dirac is a steal if one one has modest setup w/one sub. What am I missing about the RZ30?

The RZ30 has an additional independent subwoofer output (for a 9.2 system) and reportedly a better HDMI board with full 40 Gbps ports (a la RZ70).

 

[ban25]

I am 90% sure the X3900H will have the ES2017 like the X6800H and Cinema 30 do. If that happens I should be able to get the 3800 for < C$1,500.. Been wrong before, but based on D+M past practice, I would lijely be right this time.

PAC has actually re-introduced AKM DACs into some of their newest products, so we may see other manufacturers diversify away from ESS as well.

 

[Timcognito]

The RZ30 has an additional independent subwoofer output (for a 9.2 system) and reportedly a better HDMI board with full 40 Gbps ports (a la RZ70).

Thanks, Onkyo has been plagued with HDMI problems in the past. Thankfully mine has hung in there but will upgrade soon.

 

[EWL5]

Plus $300 for Dirac w/o the bass management so RZ50 with the power overload fixed for $8-900 w/Dirac is a steal if one one has modest setup w/one sub. What am I missing about the RZ30?

I have yet to see any evidence (anecdotal or objective bench test) that the limp mode is fixed. The firmware change log ambiguously says "Improved Amplifier Power supply sequence" but only Onkyo knows exactly what was addressed.

If you've seen or heard chatter, please share!

 

[Timcognito]

I have yet to see any evidence (anecdotal or objective bench test) that the limp mode is fixed. The firmware change log ambiguously says "Improved Amplifier Power supply sequence" but only Onkyo knows exactly what was addressed.

If you've seen or heard chatter, please share!

Wondering myself. Hoping for an answer on both the 50 and 30.

 

[Timcognito]

I have yet to see any evidence (anecdotal or objective bench test) that the limp mode is fixed. The firmware change log ambiguously says "Improved Amplifier Power supply sequence" but only Onkyo knows exactly what was addressed.

If you've seen or heard chatter, please share!

Here is what the manual says

https://www.novis.ch/media/downloads/TX-RZ30_Manual_En.pdf

 

[EWL5]

Here is what the manual says
View attachment 402766

https://www.novis.ch/media/downloads/TX-RZ30_Manual_En.pdf

That's not the limp mode that Amir experienced in his bench tests. What you are showing from the manual is a genuine protection mode!

In the limp mode, the AVR continues to operate at much reduced power. In protection mode, I don't think the AVR operates at all!

 

[dlaloum]

An industry insider on AVS mentioned that the RZ30 gets the better HDMI board from the RZ70 (and not the one from the RZ50). Looks like the list of improvements keeps growing for the RZ30!

The RZ30 seems to potentially be the first of the next generation, rather than the last of the previous?

 

[dlaloum]

That's not the limp mode that Amir experienced in his bench tests. What you are showing from the manual is a genuine protection mode!

In the limp mode, the AVR continues to operate at much reduced power. In protection mode, I don't think the AVR operates at all!

Which still begs the question, what is the "protection" mode referred to on the web interface status screen (which has possible status of Off or On) - full shut down protection certainly isn't it, as it would bar access to the web interface!
Hence my assumption that what you refer to as Limp mode is what the status screen refers to as "protection" mode

 

[silverstreak_2006]

Which still begs the question, what is the "protection" mode referred to on the web interface status screen (which has possible status of Off or On) - full shut down protection certainly isn't it, as it would bar access to the web interface!
Hence my assumption that what you refer to as Limp mode is what the status screen refers to as "protection" mode

It could be that and overlooked, but I'm guessing the 4 ohm mode is triggered via current sensing or heat sensing should the sensor(s) see pre-programmed condidions. I would imagine they have done something for the bench testing, but 4 ohm's is definitely forced at volume below -29dB and forced up to 6ohm at -22 dB when I was playing with some basic PCM streaming. You can hear it click provided you have something streaming, or it can / has sensed audio. Powered zone 2 / 3 still forces it down to 4 ohm, and I never re-tested bi-amping, and based on what I have seen, because it doesn't filter the low end to the main output sockets (fronts) like crossover mode on say my 5010 for example, also will probably keep it in 4 ohm mode. I'll try that further down the line. I think the location of the heat sensor is the reason for this, however if it is used without these variables, as a single zone Home cinema receiver as per main customer base, it will keep in 6ohm mode until any of said conditions are met. It must have some degree of audio sensing like the earlier models too. I still recon it would drop back if you saturate it at the clipping point with a 4ohm load too. I don't have dummy loads to test this.

 

[EWL5]

The RZ30 seems to potentially be the first of the next generation, rather than the last of the previous?

More like the cheapest RZ finally made its debut.

Going by the numbering convention, I expect a true next gen model to be something like RZ31 or some other way to differentiate from current gen w/similar tech.
There's nothing on the RZ30 that can't already be found on the RZ70!