Onkyo TX-RZ50 Review (Home Theater AVR)

[Timcognito]

It is interesting that the protection mode is not mentioned anywhere in the RZ30 user manual.

https://www.novis.ch/media/downloads/TX-RZ30_Manual_En.pdf

 

[ban25]

It is interesting that the protection mode is not mentioned anywhere in the RZ30 user manual.

https://www.novis.ch/media/downloads/TX-RZ30_Manual_En.pdf

Look at Page 150.

 

[Timcognito]

Look at Page 150.

I posted that above and response was that is not protection mode, unless I'm missing something.

 

[ban25]

I posted that above and response was that is not protection mode, unless I'm missing something.

I think there's a lot of confusion around what Amir calls "limp mode" and what the manual describes as "protection mode". The 2021 models appear to suffer from Limp Mode. The newer models from 2023 on, based on testing from Gene and Amir, do not appear to have Limp Mode anymore. It'd be interesting to see if Limp Mode still exists in the 2021 models post firmware update, but it would require a test bench to find out.

 

[Timcognito]

So the consensus is, If one buys a new RZ30, 70 or 7100 there is no protection mode or different more forgiving protection mode? What evidence without having to read 60+ pages?

 

[ban25]

So the consensus is, If one buys a new RZ30, 70 or 7100 there is no protection mode or different more forgiving protection mode? What evidence without having to read 60+ pages?

Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV Receiver Review

The Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV receiver boasts 140 watts/ch, 8K HDMI inputs, Auro 3D, FREE Dirac Live and the BEST bench test results we’ve seen in its price class. Is this the best AVR at under $3k?

www.audioholics.com

I’m pleased to see Onkyo addressed the issue we discovered in prior models tested (including Integra) that would go into a low power mode after fault protection occurred, which could only be reset by unplugging the unit from the wall rather than a simple power toggle. Instead, if a fault condition occurs with the TX-RZ70, the unit checks the amplifier channels one by one when turned back on. It takes a couple of minutes, but it is probably a good measure to help troubleshoot fault conditions beyond overdriving in a bench test scenario.

 

[ban25]

So the consensus is, If one buys a new RZ30, 70 or 7100 there is no protection mode or different more forgiving protection mode? What evidence without having to read 60+ pages?

RZ70 and 30 do not have Limp Mode. 7100 likely does have Limp Mode.

 

[EWL5]

I think jury is still out on limp mode for RZ30. Remember that the RZ70 is a higher end product whose customer base wouldn't tolerate such nonsense. The RZ30 is the baby of the RZ line!

 

[ban25]

I think jury is still out on limp mode for RZ30. Remember that the RZ70 is a higher end product whose customer base wouldn't tolerate such nonsense. The RZ30 is the baby of the RZ line!

I disagree. There is a $900 stereo receiver out there that does not have Limp Mode.

 

[EWL5]

I disagree. There is a $900 stereo receiver out there that does not have Limp Mode.

Will you at least agree we don’t have any RZ30 bench tests, let alone pro reviews other than the Andrew Robinson video?

 

[ban25]

Will you at least agree we don’t have any RZ30 bench tests, let alone pro reviews other than the Andrew Robinson video?

Agreed. But I will also point out that no 2023+ released product from PAC exhibits the Limp Mode described in Amir's reviews of older products.

 

[Timcognito]

Agreed. But I will also point out that no 2023+ released product from PAC exhibits the Limp Mode described in Amir's reviews of older products.

So again, the remaining question is what the firmware update does/doesn't do to protection mode on existing RZ50s. One could save $100s if happy with one sub, no pre-outs and still get Dirac.

 

[ban25]

So again, the remaining question is what the firmware update does/doesn't do to protection mode on existing RZ50s. One could save $100s if happy with one sub, no pre-outs and still get Dirac.

Unless Gene or Amir test an old model with updated firmware, we are unlikely to ever know. Should the RZ30 be discounted on Black Friday, it would make for a compelling option.

 

[Timcognito]

Stereo Soundstage and audio electronics

Hello all, I came across this video review of the denon 3800 avr from Andrew Robinson, who claims that with all being equal (speakers, placement, room correction off etc etc), there was a significant difference in stereo soundstage between this avr and others such as the onkyo rz50. Check...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[dlaloum]

Agreed. But I will also point out that no 2023+ released product from PAC exhibits the Limp Mode described in Amir's reviews of older products.

Sure but so far the RZ30 is the only lower end product released in that period.

If the protection/limp mode is triggered by sensors, and the higher end models (RZ70,8.4,805)have better heatsinks and heavier duty power supplies (which they do) - then that mode might not be triggered for the test conditions, whereas the "lightweights" of the family might hit their limits within the envelope of the 5W test...

So they may well have the exact same mechanisms in place....

 

[EWL5]

So again, the remaining question is what the firmware update does/doesn't do to protection mode on existing RZ50s. One could save $100s if happy with one sub, no pre-outs and still get Dirac.

I do sympathize w/you especially since the RZ50 represents a great value but it's too early to tell if the limp mode has been fixed by firmware or no longer "a thing" on the RZ30.

My suggestion is to buy the best deal this Black Friday and make sure there's an easy return policy once you start testing at home!

 

[ban25]

Sure but so far the RZ30 is the only lower end product released in that period.

If the protection/limp mode is triggered by sensors, and the higher end models (RZ70,8.4,805)have better heatsinks and heavier duty power supplies (which they do) - then that mode might not be triggered for the test conditions, whereas the "lightweights" of the family might hit their limits within the envelope of the 5W test...

So they may well have the exact same mechanisms in place....

I'd argue that the Onkyo TX-8740 and Integra DTM-7.4 are both in the same sub-$1000 market as the RZ30/50 and those models do not exhibit Limp Mode.

 

[dlaloum]

I'd argue that the Onkyo TX-8740 and Integra DTM-7.4 are both in the same sub-$1000 market as the RZ30/50 and those models do not exhibit Limp Mode

I'd agree with you - looking at the DTM-7.4 it is formally specced at 140W@4ohm stereo 1% THD (would be nice to know under what test regime!)

 

[silverstreak_2006]

OK, so some more playing accomplished this evening, and I can confirm that using speakers and any form of drive, the unit does not like test tones continually playing, so this would hamper and be worse if saturated like Amir's test I am guessing. If I stop the tone for a minute and start it again, I can trip the 4 ohm and 6ohm rails in with volume adjustment, you can hear the relay clicking at -22 and -29. I think if it can sense the tone, and it is not above the lower rail it will switch it down, or simply it may just not like such conditions. I should be able to use it normally and it should be ok.

 

[silverstreak_2006]

OK I since discovered that if I stop and start the tones within a certain time frame it does not drop the voltage of the PSU to 4 ohm mode. I tried changing the frequency but it must sense this as the same voltage or something. I'll see if I can vary the output, but I am guessing it will work fine for programs. I think it is some form of eco mode, that will switch up on demand until it hits 60 deg C then drops it anyway. The fan cut in to low at 55 Deg c the same. So with the limited testing I can do, not having resistors to go all out, I'm guessing it will switch back after each test without having to drop the power, you'd have to be patient with it. I'll try and vary the volume from the source and see if it tricks it that way.