Bluesound Node Icon (Quick User Measurements)

[GXAlan]

Bluesound Node Icon (Quick User Measurements)

I know @amirm has a Node Icon in the queue, and I'll let him run the full suite of tests including the THX AAA headphone amp tests, but here are some quick measurements for everyone. The Node Icon is the flagship of the current Bluesound line-up and is the first product to feature QRONO d2a which is part of the MQA technology. It's a proprietary digital filter that is designed to minimize pre and post ringing at the expense of some imaging artifacts. The argument is that the imaging artifacts are less noticeable in real music compared to test tones, but the pre- and post-ringing occurs in all music, albeit at different levels of detectability

Test setup
Dell Xeon w7-2475X + E1DA Cosmos ADC
(My other tests have been with a laptop to reduce the AC mains noise, but this is what I had handy today. The Dell Precision is designed for reliability, so I don't know if that means it's higher or lower EMI/RFI compared to a desktop CPU/setup).

The Bluesound Node Icon in USB-C mode seems to be stuck at 48 kHz. I didn't see a driver to download or the ability to adjust it in the settings in Windows 11.

Edit: See below. I was able to access the sample rate settings through the classic Control Panel interface


I use different settings from Amir, using a 20-20 kHz bandwidth and the combination of FFT size, averages and having the AES17 notch. I like taking something that Amir has tested and trying to match the settings to get similar 1 kHz SINAD numbers. Doing this got me 116 dB SINAD with a Fosi ZD3.

Control Test: Fosi ZD3 @ 48 khz
116.0 dB SINAD @ 78 vol
THD 122.2 dB
Noise 120.7 dB

Bluesound Node Icon
113.9 dB SINAD
(Edit: I reached 116.6 dB later)
THD 117.6 dB
Noise 124.2 dB

Quick Comments
This is a case where SINAD does not tell the whole story. SINAD is noise and distortion, but it's generally accepted that noise is more audible than distortion. The Node Icon uses the MQA QRONO d2a, which is a proprietary "leaky" aliasing filter. So, while the distortion is worse than the ZD3, the noise is better.

Given the excellent 1 kHz performance, my hypothesis is that the effects of the QRONO are seen in the multitone testing with a ton of imaging artifacts and/or higher frequency intermodulation distortion. This is something seen with the high frequency IMD/spikes and is a characteristic of a lot of processing seen in products like the Sony TA-ZH1ES.

Initial Listening Impressions
It sounds great. I am using the Node Icon as a glorified HDMI-ARC/HDMI-CEC DAC (with Dirac). I started with the Fosi ZD3 which also sounds great, but it's pretty glitchy with my Sony A9G/AppleTV combo for HDMI-CEC. Although it will power-on and power-off correctly, once the Fosi ZD3 is powered off, it typically will restart and power back on. It's not clear if it's a glitch with the HDMI CEC command or Hot Plug Detect. It's still a problem with firmware 1.07. I then moved to the WiiM Ultra. When paired with my Meyer Sound ULTRA-X40 active speakers, the RCA to XLR input resulted in a tiny bit of hum/buzz on the right channel. There's the whole issue of WiiM/Linkplay having one of the world's best software teams with all sorts of wonderful features, but somehow needing precise GPS location on iOS as a permission rather than asking just for BT access.

Which brings me to the Node Icon.
1) I have zero noise or hum with Node icon going into Meyer Sound speakers. No ground loop. No noise.
2) There really is an AUDIBLE improvement in the noise compared to the ZD3 and WiiM Ultra. The Meyer Sound ULTRA-X40 are super high-sensitivity speakers and with your ear right next to the compression driver, it certainly seems quieter with the Node Icon than the Fosi ZD3 or Wiim Ultra.

Playing back music sounds wonderful. I have been a fan of the Marantz sound and tubes so I may not be the fan of pure transparency. It's very clean, but when you listen to something like Adele, there's a level of enjoyment which is there and may simply be the quieter noise floor. It may also be QRONO d2a.

Room for improvement
1) There's no real visualization options when playing back HDMI content. It'd be nice to have the display blank as a pre-set or something like VU meters.
2) There's no obvious way to change the sample rate if you wanted to use this as a USB-C DAC. I didn't read the manual yet.
3) There continues to be a shortage of the Node Icon in the USA. I ordered on January 3, and just got it delivered today from TMR Audio. Not sure why.
4) Made in China. Although you won't be paying tariffs directly in the USA, Bluesound is paying those tariffs, which it didn't have to when the Node Icon was announced last Fall and then actually released in December 2024. There's a chance that prices will go up, unless Lenbrook is just taking the hit on profit.


Official specifications -129 dB SNR and 0.0004% THD

https://www.bluesound.com/usa/amfile/file/download/file/3430/product/781/

QRONO d2A whitepaper

https://www.bluesound.com/usa/amfile/file/download/file/3598/product/781/

Edit: In the second set of measurements, I actually got the Node Icon to measure like this. This is pretty much the limit of my E1DA Cosmos ADC!

 

[pjug]

2) There really is an AUDIBLE improvement in the noise compared to the ZD3 and WiiM Ultra. The Meyer Sound ULTRA-X40 are super high-sensitivity speakers and with your ear right next to the compression driver, it certainly seems quieter with the Node Icon than the Fosi ZD3 or Wiim Ultra.

The amplifiers in the speaker are good enough to distinguish the slightly lower noise level between the WiiM ultra and the Icon? I accept that if true but it is surprising. But only if you put your ear right on the speaker? I can't imagine it matters then.

Playing back music sounds wonderful. I have been a fan of the Marantz sound and tubes so I may not be the fan of pure transparency. It's very clean, but when you listen to something like Adele, there's a level of enjoyment which is there and may simply be the quieter noise floor. It may also be QRONO d2a.

I believe you that it sounds wonderful. But (compared to another decent DAC) it could also just be your brain. I am sure you are trying to be impartial but I am sure you know it is not so easy.

 

[GXAlan]

The amplifiers in the speaker are good enough to distinguish the slightly lower noise level between the WiiM ultra and the Icon? I accept that if true but it is surprising. But only if you put your ear right on the speaker? I can't imagine it matters then.

On my WiiM Ultra, I only had the noise on the right channel so it could be EMI/RFI. It was noticeable and why I ended up returning it. It’s the Fosi ZD3 that is surprisingly different.

Ultra X40 is silly high gain. 132.5 dB at 1m M-noise and input sensitivity of 1V. ~2 kW class D peak output amplification.

The Fosi ZD3 would be perfect for me since I don’t use the streaming features of the Node Icon as much as I use an AppleTV playing Apple Music into the eARC. However, it doesn’t do great with the HDMI CEC power on/off.

I believe you that it sounds wonderful. But (compared to another decent DAC) it could also just be your brain. I am sure you are trying to be impartial but I am sure you know it is not so easy.

Better to say that QRONO, which is a forced choice, isn’t clearly making things worse. 100% it’s sighted bias but at least there may be a plausible explanation.

Take a look at both the DSD article in my signature and Sony TAZH1ES.

I basically bought a ZD3. Returned it due to buggy HDMI. For a WiiM Ultra. Returned it due to increased noise on the right channel. Ordered the Node Icon and re-bought the ZD3 because people said the new firmware seems to improved things (it didn’t for me).

So, the fact that I have working HDMI CEC with 12V trigger and no noise = happy camper.

 

[Sokel]

What would be interesting is couple of measurements down low with filters engaged.
Bluesound had huge problems with their EQ implementation (as others as well) with the performance degrading rapidly as freqs go lower.

It would be interesting to see if they fixed it on that.

 

[GXAlan]

What would be interesting is couple of measurements down low with filters engaged.
Bluesound had huge problems with their EQ implementation (as others as well) with the performance degrading rapidly as freqs go lower.

It would be interesting to see if they fixed it on that.

I know there is an instant 6 dB hit once you enable tone controls, regardless of the setting. However, the real benefit of Node Icon is that it supports Dirac.

Bluesound NODE ICON (N530) – Dirac

DIRAC LIVE FOR Bluesound NODE ICON (N530) Get your license Your Bluesound NODE ICON (N530) is fully prepared to run Dirac Live, the world’s most...

www.dirac.com

That might have a 10 dB penalty though. I haven’t tested it yet.

 

[Sokel]

I know there is an instant 6 dB hit once you enable tone controls, regardless of the setting. However, the real benefit of Node Icon is that it supports Dirac.

Bluesound NODE ICON (N530) – Dirac

DIRAC LIVE FOR Bluesound NODE ICON (N530) Get your license Your Bluesound NODE ICON (N530) is fully prepared to run Dirac Live, the world’s most...

www.dirac.com

That might have a 10 dB penalty though. I haven’t tested it yet.

6dB would be minor,we saw reports as much as 20dB with the known 3-4 corrections one has to usual do low to fix room modes.
And it's all noise.

 

[GXAlan]

6dB would be minor,we saw reports as much as 20dB with the known 3-4 corrections one has to usual do low to fix room modes.
And it's all noise.

Ok. I will run Dirac in the listening room tonight, and then bring the Node Icon back to my desktop and run some measurements…

 

[Galliardist]

So it looks like QRONO is just a lossy filter and noise shaping.

The mentions of the triangle and the filter set in the White Paper are just MQA leftovers then? How can someone measure different filters in effect with different music, if tests all seem to show the same filter in use? Does it notice and respond to test signals differently to music?

In any case, there's nothing showing up so far to actually worry about, and the Dirac penalty should be inaudible from that basis.

Thanks for this, it's good to see more evidence along with measurements taken by members in the other thread.

 

[pjug]

So it looks like QRONO is just a lossy filter and noise shaping.

The mentions of the triangle and the filter set in the White Paper are just MQA leftovers then? How can someone measure different filters in effect with different music, if tests all seem to show the same filter in use? Does it notice and respond to test signals differently to music?

Yeah, I am pretty sure they don't use different filters for different music any more. Just different filters for different sample rates.

 

[Galliardist]

Yeah, I am pretty sure they don't use different filters for different music any more. Just different filters for different sample rates.

They barely ever did. mansr (who doesn't seem to be around here at the moment) showed that in some detail in some older MQA threads.

Different filters for different sample rates would still be worth showing for QRONO if indeed it is the case. I suspect not, but I'm just a cynical observer for now.

 

[pjug]

They barely ever did. mansr (who doesn't seem to be around here at the moment) showed that in some detail in some older MQA threads.

Different filters for different sample rates would still be worth showing for QRONO if indeed it is the case. I suspect not, but I'm just a cynical observer for now.

i am just going by my best interpretation of what they say in the white paper. But it all seems pretty benign. Unfortunately MQA people have to be paid for doing not much of anything useful, at least with the D/A stuff. That is enough to keep me from buying Lenbrook stuff, even though I recognize that this streamer is probably very good.

 

[Galliardist]

i am just going by my best interpretation of what they say in the white paper. But it all seems pretty benign. Unfortunately MQA people have to be paid for doing not much of anything useful, at least with the D/A stuff. That is enough to keep me from buying Lenbrook stuff, even though I recognize that this streamer is probably very good.

It does seem to leave us with the claim from the end of that White Paper:

QRONO d2a playback of a CD-level audio master has the time response of conventionally played 96kHz Hi-res file. A 192kHz hi-res file played with QRONO d2a can exceed the time performance of the best analogue systems. The audible improvement, while subtle, is immediate. Removing the time smear reveals textures previously obscured. Micro dynamics are improved, and instruments are clearly delineated, enhancing the stereo soundstage and image. Music flows naturally, adding realism and reducing listener fatigue. Listen for yourself.

That's the sort of remarkable claim that they have no proof whatsoever for. So they add "Listen for yourself" at the end. This is the same claim that they made for old MQA and neither they nor anybody else has ever shown it to be the case.

I guess independent properly controlled blind testing results would be needed to back up that claim. WIthout that proof, we have just another DAC with some decent measurements and a leaky filter as a point of difference, don't we?

Without that MQA legacy, I would put a lot of this down to just the same old mix of marketing speak and a good-enough product, though, and it would irritate me a lot less.

 

[Rja4000]

This is a case where SINAD does not tell the whole story. SINAD is noise and distortion, but it's generally accepted that noise is more audible than distortion. The Node Icon uses the MQA QRONO d2a, which is a proprietary "leaky" aliasing filter. So, while the distortion is worse than the ZD3, the noise is better.

Given the excellent 1 kHz performance, my hypothesis is that the effects of the QRONO are seen in the multitone testing with a ton of imaging artifacts and/or higher frequency intermodulation distortion. This is something seen with the high frequency IMD/spikes and is a characteristic of a lot of processing seen in products like the Sony TA-ZH1ES.

This is quite awful !

 

[Galliardist]

This is quite awful !

Is it audible?

 

[pogo]

Do you have a comparison between XLR/RCA?
Dirac Live post-processing at 192kHz?

 

[pogo]

The Bluesound Node Icon in USB-C mode seems to be stuck at 48 kHz. I didn't see a driver to download or the ability to adjust it in the settings in Windows 11.

1. Click the Speaker icon on the bottom of the taskbar, then click the speaker icon located to the right of the volume slider.
2. Click your primary playback device.
3. Click More volume settings, select your output device, then use the dropdown box to select the sample rate and bit depth.

Please repeat measurements at higher sampling rates

 

[Mnyb]

What about that filter ringing is visible with special test pulses . But does not actually happen with properly bandwith limited and sampled signals aka music ? The lossy apodizing no pre ringing filter thing does not seems be well supported ?

But it could very well be that a slightly worse than ideal filter would not audibly degrade anything so it has no practical effect.

Anyways thanks for taking the time to test .

Product seems te be much better than previous blue sound offerings, so a lot of things ( except the filter ) is done right

 

[pogo]

so a lot of things ( except the filter ) is done right

 

[GXAlan]

Update: @amirm @pogo

You can only access the sampling rate through the OLD Control Panel interface (not the fancy "Settings" interface)

I labeled the graphs 24/192 but it's really 32/192.

192 kHz
116.6 dB SINAD

112.0 dB SINAD with tone controls on
(-6 dBFS penalty for tone controls)

95.3 dB SINAD with Dirac On
(-10 dBFS penalty for Dirac)

Dirac Live works with 192 kHz!

QRONO d2a testing
CCIF 18.5/19.5 192 kHz vs 44.1 kHz

Impulse Response
I did "fit all data" as well as the default zoom.

 

[GXAlan]

Oh and per request, here is 1 kHz RCA. I'm losing a lot of performance

RCA output
92.6 dB SINAD (all processing off)

81.9 dB SINAD (Dirac On)

Optical SPDIF Output @ 96 kHz
144.3 dB SINAD
Dirac drops to 95.3 dB SINAD
(I don't have test equipment that will record 192 kHz digitally)

QRONO d2a is bypassed with digital output (44.1 kHz) no matter what your "Digital Passthrough" setting is. Makes sense because there's no a in "d2a"

Updated Thoughts
Dirac SINAD via SPDIF is 95.3 dB -- same as Dirac via the XLR. This is 100% transparent and may represent the maximum quality that Dirac can offer with the current setup. That's the magic of Trinnov, I suppose. With the digital out, you get no compromise in quality. Also, while I made an error in testing the digital output (because I was summing the L+R and the Dirac correction would not be identical for both channels), doing a quick re-test showed that L-into-L and R-into-R also resulted in the same 95.3 dB SINAD. This makes sense since my correction was for 500 Hz and below, so my 1 kHz SINAD is not affected.

RCA performance is really poor for me. I have a mess of cables and generic RCA to XLR (for my E1DA Cosmos) so I don’t know if that’s a testing issue or if it’s really such a big drop in performance.