Entry-Mid Level AVR - Denon AVR-X300h, Onkyo TX-RZ50, Marantz Cinema 50, Or Other?

[Sweefu]

Hi All,

I am looking for feedback on AVR options. I am based in Australia, so the availability and pricing may be a bit different compared to US/EU options. I will use the receiver for movies and music, I have a Panasonic UB820 4k blu ray player and Yamaha CDX-450 for CD music. Right now I only have a basic 2-channel front stage for speakers, I will upgrade these soon, but I don't have an AVR at all so I am starting with this first.

The second hand market here is tiny and often over-priced, and refurbished units are also uncommon, and often near RRP anyway (the last refurbished deal was only $100 lower than current prices below). So options like the previous gen Denon 3700 aren't readily available.

I am looking for the following features
- Minimum of 7+ channels, 9 would be helpful for future proofing more fun later
- Up to date codecs like Dolby Atmos
- HDMI 2.1 full 48gbps support
- Pre outs for at least front left and right
- Reasonable amplifier power

From what I can find, these are my options
- Denon AVR-X3800h at $2000
- Oknyo TX-RZ50 at $2200
- Marantz Cinema 60 at $2000 (The Cinema 50 seems more comparable to the Denon and Oknyo, which costs $2800 here so doesn't seem like a strong contender for my situation)

As a starting point, I have read Amirm's review and up to page 58 of 146 in the Denon AVR-X3800h review thread here (working through it!): https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3800h-review.38574/

In addition to the Onkyo review and discussion here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../onkyo-tx-rz50-review-home-theater-avr.30842/

I am a beginner in this space but from what I understand, these are the main considerations between the Denon and Onkyo

Denon AVR-X3800h (technically in AU it's the AVC, I think the only difference is no radio receiver)
- Has a worse DAC than the previous (early) 3700 models, with SINAD at 87dB, which is considered poor/average(?)
- The internal amplifier SINAD measures at 85dB, which is considered acceptable(?)
- Audyssey XT32 seems helpful and well regarded, and full Dirac support is available at an additional cost

Onkyo TX-RZ50
- DAC SINAD is good(?) at 97dB
- However, amplifier SINAD is poor(?) at 77dB
- Seems to have some sort of power limiting issue at 4ohm (Some suggest this has been fixed as there haven't been many reports of issues in real-world usage, not sure if anyone can comment?)
- Has Dirac support out of the box with no additional cost
- Only has 1 sub channel, compared to 4 independent channels in the Denon, although I can't see myself using multiple subs in the house I'm in currently, this may change one day


I appreciate there will be limitations with any option at this price point, it would be great if anyone can comment on these two options given my requirements, or help unpack the reviews a bit more for these two units.

Many thanks for your help - this forum has been an awesome resource and I will be sure to contribute where I can in the future.

Cheers

 

[Oddball]

Welcome to ASR and to HT world.

Looks like you did a great job researching both contenders. I would suggest 3800H, for the reasons you noted above. While its SINAD headline number is not stellar, most HT people on this forum are of the view that it is transparent enough that this would not be an issue. It has more features overall and is for the most part very reliable. Did not see many complaints from this or other forums.

Something to consider might also be RZ 30, which is smaller and newer model with 2 independent subs. I would still go Denon, though.

 

[EWL5]

@Sweefu, you didn't mention which speakers you're running which could have some impact on the choice!

Generally I'm in agreement w/ @Oddball's rec for the 3800 since it appears to be an AVR w/o caveats whereas the RZ50 might struggle w/low impedance speakers.
The SINAD "issue" is fairly non-existent since the difference b/w the prior gen 3700 and current 3800 is not audible!

The RZ50 is a great receiver if your speakers are not challenging. If you want to go deep into Dirac on the RZ50, you may want to wait until the firmware fix for DLBC comes out first!

 

[valerianf]

The Onkyo TX RZ30 at around $1000 in the US seems to be the best opportunity.
With pre-out you can add a power amp of your choice.
I just bought one.

 

[OCA]

Hi All,

I am looking for feedback on AVR options. I am based in Australia, so the availability and pricing may be a bit different compared to US/EU options. I will use the receiver for movies and music, I have a Panasonic UB820 4k blu ray player and Yamaha CDX-450 for CD music. Right now I only have a basic 2-channel front stage for speakers, I will upgrade these soon, but I don't have an AVR at all so I am starting with this first.

The second hand market here is tiny and often over-priced, and refurbished units are also uncommon, and often near RRP anyway (the last refurbished deal was only $100 lower than current prices below). So options like the previous gen Denon 3700 aren't readily available.

I am looking for the following features
- Minimum of 7+ channels, 9 would be helpful for future proofing more fun later
- Up to date codecs like Dolby Atmos
- HDMI 2.1 full 48gbps support
- Pre outs for at least front left and right
- Reasonable amplifier power

From what I can find, these are my options
- Denon AVR-X3800h at $2000
- Oknyo TX-RZ50 at $2200
- Marantz Cinema 60 at $2000 (The Cinema 50 seems more comparable to the Denon and Oknyo, which costs $2800 here so doesn't seem like a strong contender for my situation)

As a starting point, I have read Amirm's review and up to page 58 of 146 in the Denon AVR-X3800h review thread here (working through it!): https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3800h-review.38574/

In addition to the Onkyo review and discussion here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../onkyo-tx-rz50-review-home-theater-avr.30842/

I am a beginner in this space but from what I understand, these are the main considerations between the Denon and Onkyo

Denon AVR-X3800h (technically in AU it's the AVC, I think the only difference is no radio receiver)
- Has a worse DAC than the previous (early) 3700 models, with SINAD at 87dB, which is considered poor/average(?)
- The internal amplifier SINAD measures at 85dB, which is considered acceptable(?)
- Audyssey XT32 seems helpful and well regarded, and full Dirac support is available at an additional cost

Onkyo TX-RZ50
- DAC SINAD is good(?) at 97dB
- However, amplifier SINAD is poor(?) at 77dB
- Seems to have some sort of power limiting issue at 4ohm (Some suggest this has been fixed as there haven't been many reports of issues in real-world usage, not sure if anyone can comment?)
- Has Dirac support out of the box with no additional cost
- Only has 1 sub channel, compared to 4 independent channels in the Denon, although I can't see myself using multiple subs in the house I'm in currently, this may change one day


I appreciate there will be limitations with any option at this price point, it would be great if anyone can comment on these two options given my requirements, or help unpack the reviews a bit more for these two units.

Many thanks for your help - this forum has been an awesome resource and I will be sure to contribute where I can in the future.

Cheers

Don’t obsess over inaudible SINAD differences or DAC performance.

When it comes to real-world sound quality, the most critical factor is the effectiveness of digital room correction. Unfortunately, most AV receivers on the market today come with poor quality auto-calibration systems and severely limited manual adjustment capabilities. These limitations often appear intentional designed to make mediocre automated calibration results look relatively good, rather than empowering users to achieve proper tuning themselves.

Yamaha is one of the very few exceptions, offering full parametric EQ access that lets users fine-tune their systems intelligently. In contrast, Denon and Marantz don’t even provide basic subwoofer EQ controls, ensuring the low-end performance in your room will never be right. Even worse, while their calibration systems rely on FIR filters (with great potential), these are locked away from the user accessible only via their automated processes, which have seen minimal meaningful improvement in decades.

If you’re set on a D&M receiver, choose carefully. The models below include an additional Griffin Lite DSP chip that offer marginally better sound and calibration possibilities:

For setups with two or fewer subwoofers, the X4700H or SR7015 provide excellent value. If you’re planning for up to four subs, go for the X3800H or X4800H. The 4800H is assembled in Japan, but based on long-term reliability (and plenty of hard use), that may not be a deciding factor. I’ve yet to see any of these models fail over years of heavy usage.

External amplification for the front channels is strongly recommended, as none of these receivers handle multiple power hungry speaker loads well on their own. And whatever speakers you choose, opt for high-sensitivity models (not just ones that claim high sensitivity like many from Klipsch). True efficiency here makes a noticeable impact on system performance and dynamics.

Edit: sorry model names have been trimmed to last 6 digits because I copied it from inside the script but I guess you can derive the full names.

 

[Bleib]

Is there really a model with true 48gps support?
I think the only way might be to wait for a hdmi 2.2 device to come out

 

[Sweefu]

Welcome to ASR and to HT world.

Looks like you did a great job researching both contenders. I would suggest 3800H, for the reasons you noted above. While its SINAD headline number is not stellar, most HT people on this forum are of the view that it is transparent enough that this would not be an issue. It has more features overall and is for the most part very reliable. Did not see many complaints from this or other forums.

Something to consider might also be RZ 30, which is smaller and newer model with 2 independent subs. I would still go Denon, though.

Thank you for the reply!

Good call on the RZ30, it is available locally at $1900, so it's pretty comparable in cost. Looks like a solid option but not as many reviews around yet.

I have no plans to run sub(s) at this stage but will probably end up changing in the future. For now the plan is just a reasonable front stage that can play pretty low in stereo.

It looks like the 3800 will give up to 11 channels of processing with external amps, compared to 9 channels in the RZ30, and possibly 20w less power.

From what I can see it looks like the Denon can process more surround formats, are all of these relevant? Or only Atmos? (Screenshot attached)

 

[Sweefu]

@Sweefu, you didn't mention which speakers you're running which could have some impact on the choice!

Generally I'm in agreement w/ @Oddball's rec for the 3800 since it appears to be an AVR w/o caveats whereas the RZ50 might struggle w/low impedance speakers.
The SINAD "issue" is fairly non-existent since the difference b/w the prior gen 3700 and current 3800 is not audible!

The RZ50 is a great receiver if your speakers are not challenging. If you want to go deep into Dirac on the RZ50, you may want to wait until the firmware fix for DLBC comes out first!

Thanks for the reply.

For now I just have a pair of old (but reasonable quality) bookshelf speakers, I will upgrade to some decent front towers and centre in the future, and move the current bookshelf speakers to surround.

I'd definitely like the option to handle 4ohm speakers, so the Denon looks better in this case.

 

[Sweefu]

Don’t obsess over inaudible SINAD differences or DAC performance.

When it comes to real-world sound quality, the most critical factor is the effectiveness of digital room correction. Unfortunately, most AV receivers on the market today come with poor quality auto-calibration systems and severely limited manual adjustment capabilities. These limitations often appear intentional designed to make mediocre automated calibration results look relatively good, rather than empowering users to achieve proper tuning themselves.

Yamaha is one of the very few exceptions, offering full parametric EQ access that lets users fine-tune their systems intelligently. In contrast, Denon and Marantz don’t even provide basic subwoofer EQ controls, ensuring the low-end performance in your room will never be right. Even worse, while their calibration systems rely on FIR filters (with great potential), these are locked away from the user accessible only via their automated processes, which have seen minimal meaningful improvement in decades.

If you’re set on a D&M receiver, choose carefully. The models below include an additional Griffin Lite DSP chip that offer marginally better sound and calibration possibilities:
View attachment 458270
For setups with two or fewer subwoofers, the X4700H or SR7015 provide excellent value. If you’re planning for up to four subs, go for the X3800H or X4800H. The 4800H is assembled in Japan, but based on long-term reliability (and plenty of hard use), that may not be a deciding factor. I’ve yet to see any of these models fail over years of heavy usage.

External amplification for the front channels is strongly recommended, as none of these receivers handle multiple power hungry speaker loads well on their own. And whatever speakers you choose, opt for high-sensitivity models (not just ones that claim high sensitivity like many from Klipsch). True efficiency here makes a noticeable impact on system performance and dynamics.

Edit: sorry model names have been trimmed to last 6 digits because I copied it from inside the script but I guess you can derive the full names.

Thanks for your insight.

4700h looks to be long discontinued here and the 4800 is out of budget. It's good to see the 3800 is on the list, as it looks like my best option at this stage.

I agree with you on speakers with decent sensitivity, this is definitely on the list, the front runners so far use SB Acoustics drivers and have sensitivity at 91.5dB which is great.

 

[Sweefu]

Is there really a model with true 48gps support?
I think the only way might be to wait for a hdmi 2.2 device to come out

My mistake, it is 40gbps. I remember reading that the current (although old) line up of Yamaha receivers only support 24gbps or something, so I wanted to avoid that if possible.

 

[Oddball]

Thank you for the reply!

Good call on the RZ30, it is available locally at $1900, so it's pretty comparable in cost. Looks like a solid option but not as many reviews around yet.

I have no plans to run sub(s) at this stage but will probably end up changing in the future. For now the plan is just a reasonable front stage that can play pretty low in stereo.

It looks like the 3800 will give up to 11 channels of processing with external amps, compared to 9 channels in the RZ30, and possibly 20w less power.

From what I can see it looks like the Denon can process more surround formats, are all of these relevant? Or only Atmos? (Screenshot attached)

Really depends on your use case. Streaming is Atmos or 5.1 for predominant part. Discs can be a whole lot of different formats. In general, more is better, and given the close price difference, Denon might be a better solution.

 

[EWL5]

Thank you for the reply!

Good call on the RZ30, it is available locally at $1900, so it's pretty comparable in cost. Looks like a solid option but not as many reviews around yet.

I have no plans to run sub(s) at this stage but will probably end up changing in the future. For now the plan is just a reasonable front stage that can play pretty low in stereo.

It looks like the 3800 will give up to 11 channels of processing with external amps, compared to 9 channels in the RZ30, and possibly 20w less power.

From what I can see it looks like the Denon can process more surround formats, are all of these relevant? Or only Atmos? (Screenshot attached)

Yes, the RZ30 definitely deserves your consideration but note that it also suffers from the same Dirac DLBM/DLBC bug that the RZ50 currently has! I would wait for the same firmware fix to come out before making a final decision!

 

[Golfx]

If you are just getting into HT movie watching, for the future, subwoofers add emotion to movies and TV shows and relieve your main speakers from trying to produce bass better suited to subwoofers. Because subs have their own amps this means your main LCR speakers will also have more power available to produce sounds above 80hz.