Onkyo TX-NR7100 AVR Review

[Will P]

What is the actual dB difference between 20 watts (40 watts at 4 ohm), and say the 136 watt at 8 ohm, 4 ohms dynamically, well.......

Difference between 136W and 20W is 8dB.
That is the rail voltage reduction I measured in Onkyo TX-SR3100 too.

 

[danieldemarko]

Hi Guys, I am considering to buy this receiver. As far as I read here, most of the people do not like it. My budget is up 1500 usd. What is the dac in the Onkyo?

 

[sealman]

Hi Guys, I am considering to buy this receiver. As far as I read here, most of the people do not like it. My budget is up 1500 usd. What is the dac in the Onkyo?

If you are concerned about the DAC in a receiver then imo you are barking up the wrong tree. At 1500.00 or less there is no receiver being made with a good DAC. They are all serviceable but decidedly mediocre.

 

[kyuu]

The thing is that the DAC in a receiver (or any system, really) just needs to be performant enough not be a bottleneck before you hit the amplifier. It doesn't matter how high the SINAD is on your DAC if your amplifier is only managing 70-80dB (typical range for AVRs). 70-80dB is honestly more than adequate, btw, as long as it's not so heavily dominated by noise that you get audible hiss beyond having your ear directly against the tweeter.

 

[sealman]

The thing is that the DAC in a receiver (or any system, really) just needs to be performant enough not be a bottleneck before you hit the amplifier. It doesn't matter how high the SINAD is on your DAC if your amplifier is only managing 70-80dB (typical range for AVRs). 70-80dB is honestly more than adequate, btw, as long as it's not so heavily dominated by noise that you get audible hiss beyond having your ear directly against the tweeter.

Agree, which is why I said they are all serviceable.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Hi Guys, I am considering to buy this receiver. As far as I read here, most of the people do not like it. My budget is up 1500 usd. What is the dac in the Onkyo?

Here, I use an excellent (to my ears) Sansui AU 317 and use the Pioneer VSX LX 503 pre-out to listen the audio sources on front left and right speakers. The result is much better than connecting the speakers directly to the Pioneer. For music, I use a Mac Mini with Audirvana + a Topping E50 DAC connected to the Sansui via RCA cable. The results are even better at a lower cost. From my current point, I presume that only if I jump to a Lumin or Aurender streamer, I, maybe, will give a relevant leap. Despite all critcism, I am thinking about to buy an used ARCAM AVR11 AV receiver. It can not be inferior than my Pioneer VSX LX 503.

 

[dlaloum]

Hi Guys, I am considering to buy this receiver. As far as I read here, most of the people do not like it. My budget is up 1500 usd. What is the dac in the Onkyo?

Nothing wrong with it... in fact it measured pretty well on the bench.

It does have a weakness - its amps are not designed for difficult loads - that is to say speakers that have dips in impedance below 4ohm (as opposed to being "nominally" 4 ohm)

I have this AVR's twin from Integra, which gains pre-outs - using it like the NR7100 into my admittedly difficult speakers (impedance minimum of 1.6 ohm) - did NOT sound great - but I connected my external power amps to it, powered L/C/R externally and used the internal amps for the rest of my 5.1.4 setup... the result is excellent!

If my main L/C/R speakers were "standard" 8ohm speakers, with the lowest dips remaining above 4ohm, then the internal amps would be just fine, and the additional external amps would not be needed.... a matter of "horses for courses".

The Onkyo RZ30 is basically the same DAC's and amps, with pre-outs and independent subs - the Integra DRX3.4 (which I have) is the same as the NR7100 but with pre-outs, and the Pioneer LX305 is the same as the NR7100 ....

Truly these are excellent value AVR's - designed to be matched with 8ohm easy to drive speakers.
The RZ50 (and its siblings) have a similar problem with difficult speakers, but add 2 additional channels of processing - and have pre-outs.

The RZ70 (and siblings) have no issue handling pretty much any speaker - they are high current designs, and handle difficult load speakers without major issues - but they are also a substantial step up in cost. (on the other hand, if you have difficult speakers, you won't need an external amp... which may make them good value)

 

[andrewskaterrr]

Hi Guys, I am considering to buy this receiver. As far as I read here, most of the people do not like it. My budget is up 1500 usd. What is the dac in the Onkyo?

1. For around $920-1100 you can get an Onkyo X3800h which is a far better unit. It can do 7.4.2 or 7.4.4 if you add a Stereo amp. It supports Dirac Live, Bass Control, and later this year Dirac ART which is insane! Hands down that is what you should buy. Check SlickDeals which usually has the Adorama links for sales, or check out Accessories4Less.
2. If you are still wanting this AVR then the Integra 3.4 is the better unit as it has Pre-outs for only $20 more ($570). The power issues have been resolved in a software update that came out shortly after this review (this was my unit Amir tested). With that said, the X3800h still has more power output and is all around the better option. These lower units only have Dirac Live and NOT Bass Control or ART.
3. The DACs don't matter much. Look at the measurements and go from there. I think there's a lot of people here that agree even these cheap DACs are transparent or close enough that it doesn't matter.

 

[antcollinet]

but decidedly mediocre.

Pretty much always inaudibly so though. I know you hinted at this when you stated "serviceable" But I dodn't think that was clear enough for someone probably less familiar with DAC audibility issues - and considering laying a big wad of cash down on something described as mediocre.

@danieldemarko To simplify. - the DAC in these AVR's is typically not that good compared with the best standalone DACs out there. But this is only in terms of technical measurements. With real world listening, and typical rooms and with speakers you are not going to be able to hear the difference between the DAC in the AVR, and any state of the art DAC. It is already better than human hearing in such conditions

In other words - don't worry about the DAC.

Having said that - I'm @andrewskaterrr and would suggest the Denon 3800 is a better bet - to the extent that is the one I purchased.

 

[danieldemarko]

Thank you, Guys. To be honest, I have a Pioneer VSX 1131 with Audio Monitor Silver 200, and I am fine with this. The problem is that the receiver doesn't and HDMI eARC. I want to upgrade with the Onkyo. I read that there have been a lot of problems with this receiver, that is why I am checking before I step further. Also, I am a casual audiophile, let me say in this way entry-level audiophile, and I want to keep it that way. My option is between those receivers: Denon AVR - X2800h, Marantz Cinema 70s, Onkyo TX-NR7100M2, Pioneer VSX-LX305, Yamaha RX-A2a, MArantz Cinema 60, Integra DRX 2.4. Thank you in advance

 

[sealman]

Pretty much always inaudibly so though. I know you hinted at this when you stated "serviceable" But I dodn't think that was clear enough for someone probably less familiar with DAC audibility issues - and considering laying a big wad of cash down on something described as mediocre.

@danieldemarko To simplify. - the DAC in these AVR's is typically not that good compared with the best standalone DACs out there. But this is only in terms of technical measurements. With real world listening, and typical rooms and with speakers you are not going to be able to hear the difference between the DAC in the AVR, and any state of the art DAC. It is already better than human hearing in such conditions

In other words - don't worry about the DAC.

Having said that - I'm @andrewskaterrr and would suggest the Denon 3800 is a better bet - to the extent that is the one I purchased.

Ha! I knew someone would explain it better than me! I also have the 3800 for the same reasons.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

Thank you, Guys. To be honest, I have a Pioneer VSX 1131 with Audio Monitor Silver 200, and I am fine with this. The problem is that the receiver doesn't and HDMI eARC. I want to upgrade with the Onkyo. I read that there have been a lot of problems with this receiver, that is why I am checking before I step further. Also, I am a casual audiophile, let me say in this way entry-level audiophile, and I want to keep it that way. My option is between those receivers: Denon AVR - X2800h, Marantz Cinema 70s, Onkyo TX-NR7100M2, Pioneer VSX-LX305, Yamaha RX-A2a, MArantz Cinema 60, Integra DRX 2.4. Thank you in advance

You have more options for $1500, so IDK why you’re limiting yourself to those. You can easily get into higher and much better AVRs for $1500 as I mentioned above. If you literally CAN’T pick the ones I mentioned, I’d 70S for the pre-outs.

 

[danieldemarko]

You have more options for $1500, so IDK why you’re limiting yourself to those. You can easily get into higher and much better AVRs for $1500 as I mentioned above. If you literally CAN’T pick the ones I mentioned, I’d 70S for the pre-outs.

Thank you. Could please mark 3 receivers from 1 to 3. Thank you.

 

[Joramun]

Nothing wrong with it... in fact it measured pretty well on the bench.

It does have a weakness - its amps are not designed for difficult loads - that is to say speakers that have dips in impedance below 4ohm (as opposed to being "nominally" 4 ohm)

I have this AVR's twin from Integra, which gains pre-outs - using it like the NR7100 into my admittedly difficult speakers (impedance minimum of 1.6 ohm) - did NOT sound great - but I connected my external power amps to it, powered L/C/R externally and used the internal amps for the rest of my 5.1.4 setup... the result is excellent!

If my main L/C/R speakers were "standard" 8ohm speakers, with the lowest dips remaining above 4ohm, then the internal amps would be just fine, and the additional external amps would not be needed.... a matter of "horses for courses".

The Onkyo RZ30 is basically the same DAC's and amps, with pre-outs and independent subs - the Integra DRX3.4 (which I have) is the same as the NR7100 but with pre-outs, and the Pioneer LX305 is the same as the NR7100 ....

Truly these are excellent value AVR's - designed to be matched with 8ohm easy to drive speakers.
The RZ50 (and its siblings) have a similar problem with difficult speakers, but add 2 additional channels of processing - and have pre-outs.

The RZ70 (and siblings) have no issue handling pretty much any speaker - they are high current designs, and handle difficult load speakers without major issues - but they are also a substantial step up in cost. (on the other hand, if you have difficult speakers, you won't need an external amp... which may make them good value)

Which bookshelf speakers would be best paired with this AVR?

 

[dlaloum]

Thank you, Guys. To be honest, I have a Pioneer VSX 1131 with Audio Monitor Silver 200, and I am fine with this. The problem is that the receiver doesn't and HDMI eARC. I want to upgrade with the Onkyo. I read that there have been a lot of problems with this receiver, that is why I am checking before I step further. Also, I am a casual audiophile, let me say in this way entry-level audiophile, and I want to keep it that way. My option is between those receivers: Denon AVR - X2800h, Marantz Cinema 70s, Onkyo TX-NR7100M2, Pioneer VSX-LX305, Yamaha RX-A2a, MArantz Cinema 60, Integra DRX 2.4. Thank you in advance

The reason I upgraded to a current generation Integra/Onkyo was the inclusion of Dirac, which I found to make an immediate improvement over my previously Audyssey based system.

The inclusion of Dirac makes the Onkyo TX-NR7100 & Pioneer VSX-LX305 outstanding value items on your list.
Their weakness is the amps and their inability to cleanly drive low impedance speakers.

The Monitor Audio Silver 200-7 was reviewed here - and impedance measured:

Monitor Audio Silver 200 7G

Reprosoustavy britských Monitor Audio jsou takovým dobrým standardem toho, jak má vypadat moderní hi-fi s prvky, které jej umožní snadno zakomponovat do moderních interiérů. Jinými slovy, Monitor Audio až tak nemíří na skalní audiofilskou komunitu, ale na ty, kteří preferují dobrý zvuk i pěknou...

www.hifi-voice.com

With a minimum of 5 ohm - the NR7100/LX305 should be able to handle them just fine.

 

[dlaloum]

Which bookshelf speakers would be best paired with this AVR?

Any where the impedance does not drop below 4ohm (preferably not below 5ohm)

The Silver 200-7 that was discussed has the following measurements:

These as an example, are fine, at its lowest points it skirts 5ohm... they are specified as being Nominally 8ohm... most 8ohm speakers should be OK - but it is best to get an impedance chart like this one to verify!

 

[popej]

Their weakness is the amps and their inability to cleanly drive low impedance speakers.

Is it a new discovery? I don't see any indication of this problem in distortion measurements by Amir.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

Their weakness is the amps and their inability to cleanly drive low impedance speakers.

What's your source for this?
The AVR outputs more power at 4ohm then it does at 8ohm. On Page 14 Power Pop 23 did a simple Kill-A-Watt meter test after updating to the 10/28/2024 Firmware. With the 4ohm mode enabled, which you should NOT use because it power limits on all AVRs, he saw power go from 40-57 watts to around 100w @-08dB. It seems that they may have silently relaxed the power limits on it, and others reported the same thing with happening with the RZ50. He switched to the proper 6ohm+ mode and was seeing up to 301 watts @-08dB. With that said, of course this unit isn't going to pump out as many watts out at 4ohm as the higher level AVRs.

 

[andrewskaterrr]

Thank you. Could please mark 3 receivers from 1 to 3. Thank you.

Why don't you tell us why you can't order the Denon X3800h like we're suggesting? Here's a refurb for $1200, but I imagine it will go on sale again for less.

DENON AVR-X3800H 9.4-Ch x 105 Watts 8K A/V Receiver w/HEOS

Denon Factory Refurbished

www.accessories4less.com

 

[dlaloum]

What's your source for this?
The AVR outputs more power at 4ohm then it does at 8ohm. On Page 14 Power Pop 23 did a simple Kill-A-Watt meter test after updating to the 10/28/2024 Firmware. With the 4ohm mode enabled, which you should NOT use because it power limits on all AVRs, he saw power go from 40-57 watts to around 100w @-08dB. It seems that they may have silently relaxed the power limits on it, and others reported the same thing with happening with the RZ50. He switched to the proper 6ohm+ mode and was seeing up to 301 watts @-08dB. With that said, of course this unit isn't going to pump out as many watts out at 4ohm as the higher level AVRs.

My 1.6ohm speakers (4ohm nominal spec) - connected to my Integra DRX3.4 - sounds like rubbish - imaging is confused, vocals are poor... then you use the DRX3.4 as a preamp and feed it into my Quad 606 or Crown XLS2500 and it suddenly sounds the way it should.

Same speakers sounded identical to how they sound on the 606 or XLS2500, when running off my Onkyo TX-SR876 or Integra DTR70.4 - both of which are high current AVR's.

The Integra DRX3.4 / Onkyo NR7100 / Pioneer LX305 (all of which have identical amp circuits) - are NOT recommended for 4ohm speakers.

(and I am not talking about the so-called protection mode... which I did not encounter, even though my speakers are a particularly difficult 4 ohm design)