Does Op-amp Rolling Work?

[morillon]

The only real purpose of running these other tests would be to silence such complaints that the other tests weren't run.

On a balance of probabilities if swapping an opamp makes zero or negligible difference in the suite of tests Amir ran, it will make zero or negligible difference on these other tests as well.

It's good to know that most of the tests generally carried out here are of no interest...

and the conclusions offered before even having done the tests...
great

 

[quocheiser]

Many think or want to believe they can 'cheat the system' by rolling some little chips.

Wannabe audio wizards who drank some magic potion, aka read some unqualified comment on the internet, are now better than circuit designers.

Imagine if room acoustics got the same attention as op-amps on the audiophile web.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

It's good to know that most of the tests generally carried out here are of no interest...

and the conclusions offered before even having done the tests...
great

If you are testing a previously untested device you do all of the tests.

If you have already tested the device and now want to detect a difference between left and right channel - if you can't find an immediate difference, you don't need to do all the tests.

 

[NTTY]

It's crazy, even comical...

you're just explaining that all sweep imd , smtp, din , ccif ap32 nid etc etc measurements constantly practiced here, on asr, are of no interest....
hihi
just a sinad 1k..possibly a thd+n/frequency sweep and zouuuu
Bad faith does have some limits, doesn't it? ;-)

Nope, I did not say that.
Just in the context of the OPAmp comparison, all you need is what you got from Amir, since it is what you challenged.
Like I said before, I previously tested 96 combinations of OPamp and ran 88 measurements for each (44 per channel: FR, phase, SINAD from 0dBFS down to -100dBFS, all IMDs in existence, Multitone, jitter, pitch error, crosstalk, etc…). That is why I can say what you got from Amir is enough in the context of that one comparison.

 

[morillon]

Nope, I did not say that.
Just in the context of the OPAmp comparison, all you need is what you got from Amir, since it was what you challenged.
Like I said before, I previously rested 96 combinations of OPamp and ran 88 measurements for each (44 per channel: FR, phase, SINAD from 0dBFS down to -100dBFS, all IMDs in existence, Multitone, jitter, pitch error, crosstalk, etc…). That is why I can say what you got from Amir is enough in the context of that one comparison.

You can draw these conclusions... and I greet him...

but the very limited basis presented here does not allow it...
moreover, your rigor shows the lightness of the approach taken here...

ps
ps we have seen the impact that can be more or less skillful in the choice of an aop by a manufacturer, sometimes can be too dominated by economic choices or... marketing as in the probable case of the recent small prephono fosi.... but also show the limits of this approach of poorly adapted measurements and which can distort the results... so... not necessarily without impact, right? ;-)

Fosi Audio Box X5 Phono Preamp Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Fosi Audio Box X5 stereo Phono stage. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $109.99. Company manages to bring a touch of class in a category that is universally utilitarian with those rounded corners and orange power button. Flexibility...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Multicore]

Why is to roll the verb for this component swapping? And how did that come about?

 

[Cbdb2]

If I were a technician, I could not make much sense of that. Better Texas Instruments hires some audiophiles for cross check. It was done for OP-275 to some success, the Butler front end!

And this is what they got.

"The OP275 is the first amplifier to feature the Butler Amplifier
front end. This new front end design combines both bipolar
and JFET transistors to attain amplifiers with the accuracy and
low noise performance of bipolar transistors, and the speed and
SOUND QUALITY of JFETs. "

So now, even Analog Devices is polluting there data sheets with this audiophool BS.
Scott Wurcer is rolling in his grave.

 

[Cbdb2]

It's good to know that most of the tests generally carried out here are of no interest...

and the conclusions offered before even having done the tests...
great

How much of Amirs testing have you looked at? He usually tests complete devices not the component's inside them. And this testing is of much interest. This unusual test was to show how much differance opamps make in a complete device (the rest of the circuit is more important than the opamp) because its a popular topic.
And if its not interesting, your free to go elsewhere.

 

[antcollinet]

moreover, your rigor shows the lightness of the approach taken here...

Only to someone who doesn't have the engineering chops to understand what is being said or done

But then anyone with the engineering chops wouldn't be questioning the whole premise of this thread in the first place.

 

[Muddywaters]

I skipped from page 10

Isn’t it clear and obvious that op amp rolling works excellently? Separating punters from their money?

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Why is to roll the verb for this component swapping? And how did that come about?

The name was derived from "tube rolling," which was named after the rolling motion recommended when removing a vacuum tube from its socket. Do not use that sort of motion when pulling a socketed DIP op-amp chip!

 

[Heinrich]

So now, even Analog Devices is polluting there data sheets with this audiophool BS.
Scott Wurcer is rolling in his grave.

Grave rolling as a final state of audiophilistering. Ja, some people don't understand the topic, because in their mindset the subjective impression is the rule for all. I agree to some degree, and the "preference score" for speakers does the same.

But as already stated several times, we do not know how distortion (HD, IM) translates to humanly perceived sound quality. And then again, if, with those tests, adverse artifacts are held by oders of magnitude below the self noise of air (!!), why bother?

It's an argument of plausibility, yet it is very strong. The side of doubt, o/k we need you, but tell me other than sighted and otherwise flawed "tested with my music - once" stories. That simple, the ball is in the field of the opamp rollers, we're awaiting them to play it. They can't and hence won't, as it seems.

The above linked video of "danny" is a satire? If so, a spicy dish, indeed.

 

[Heinrich]

... some people don't understand the topic, ...

What about FET inputs, you love them because of low noise current, behind a potentiometer? The pot will present a high input impedance for the non-inverting buffer, that configuration you chose because of low noise. But the FET differential input stage will show variable input capacitance with changing voltage at the sources even in common mode ... . I'm decidedly not an engineer, but I simply know that

 

[Multicore]

The name was derived from "tube rolling," which was named after the rolling motion recommended when removing a vacuum tube from its socket. Do not use that sort of motion when pulling a socketed DIP op-amp chip!

Excellent. Good to know, but...

What a terrible lost opportunity! Considering circular vs DIP sockets it could have and should have been op-amp rocking and tube rolling.

 

[TNT]

So you think someone who has built a state of the art power stage, left room on the table on the front-end buffer/gain stage?

So the Douk Audio A5 power stage is SOTA in your book? You do know what it means... State Of The Art?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/douk-audio-a5-stereo-class-d-amplifier-measurement-png.435563/

So illogical. Why do you write these kind of things - just because you are the boss?

If it were so, why isn't it on the top of your chart?

//

 

[morillon]

Only to someone who doesn't have the engineering chops to understand what is being said or done

But then anyone with the engineering chops wouldn't be questioning the whole premise of this thread in the first place.

we're not among children... ;-) why use such a method!! hihi



let's say that knowing the result in advance...
the different tests commonly used to discriminate, no longer of interest...?



I am still waiting for the explanation on the fact that technically the various current tests considered as being able to be potentially discriminatory, type imd, sweep imd, ap32 would not be of interest, or even would not make sense in terms of methodology here...
;-)

 

[Somafunk]

Why is to roll the verb for this component swapping? And how did that come about?

Probably referring to placing a “tube” from a tube amplifier on the table/worktop as you change it and watching it roll off before smashing on the floor.

I fecking hate the term “roll” when it is brought up with regard to iem ear-tip “rolling” or cable “rolling” etc…..sounds feckin stoopid. On headfi I deliberately use the term “change/swap” as it annoys the “rollers” on that site.

 

[NTK]

So the Douk Audio A5 power stage is SOTA in your book? You do know what it means... State Of The Art?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/douk-audio-a5-stereo-class-d-amplifier-measurement-png.435563/

So illogical. Why do you write these kind of things - just because you are the boss?

If it were so, why isn't it on the top of your chart?

//

Amir clarified his statement later in post 22.

Does Op-amp Rolling Work?

There's nothing "state of the art" about the Douk A5. Exactly what do you think plugging an alternative opamp into a cheap class D amplifier with ordinary performance and then running a few tests proves about either opamp specifically? Nothing to see here. It's the rant against Class D amps...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[MaxwellsEq]

we're not among children... ;-) why use such a method!! hihi



let's say that knowing the result in advance...
the different tests commonly used to discriminate, no longer of interest...?



I am still waiting for the explanation on the fact that technically the various current tests considered as being able to be potentially discriminatory, type imd, sweep imd, ap32 would not be of interest, or even would not make sense in terms of methodology here...
;-)

I explained it in post 423

 

[ckernel8]

Has anyone objectively validated this company is capable of producing anything worth buying (as upgrades)?

No, but I can make a guess that I'd bet my life savings on.