Sparkos SS3602 Opamp Rolling In Fosi P4

[wwenze]

 

[solderdude]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I heard a difference

You actually are saying I'm wrong because you heard a difference and trust your 'hearing process' explicitly.

I guess I must be hearing things that are not there?

That's what the audio industry actually depends on. Subjective and not controlled comparisons.
It is extremely rare that someone goes to the trouble of testing differences 'truly blind' and level matched which would be instrumental for finding out if there actually are differences.

 

[olds1959special]

I decided to put the Sparkos SS3602 back in, the MUSE02 seemed subdued. It takes about 5 minutes. The MUSE02 got its pins a bit messed up when I pulled it out, so I probably should use a riser for it. I'll be able to listen more carefully with the SS3602 later, but right now it seems like it's got big bass and open, forward treble. The NE5532P got totally mangled on its way out so it's not going back in.

 

[olds1959special]

This is the tool that makes it easy to remove and put back the switch.

 

[antcollinet]

I guess I must be hearing things that are not there?

Exactly - that is precisely what your brain is doing to you all the time.

 

[solderdude]

but right now it seems like it's got big bass and open, forward treble.

Indeed those are the most apt words to use in this case it may seem that way.
You can rest assured that electrically the bass response and treble has not changed.
The, by you, used op-amps simply cannot do that.
The actual frequency response (which would need to change) is not determined by the amplifying components but the feedback resistors around the op-amp and those did not change.
The harmonics spectrum nor amplitude did not change either and are incredibly much lower than any known threshold (using music) that exists.
This means the electrical wave-form at the output of the pre-amp did not change in any way and is exactly the same (as shown by Amir's measurements).
The only thing that actually changed is that you KNOW which op-amp you inserted and the price of it.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

I must be hearing things that are not there

Well deduced. That's exactly what you are doing.

 

[mlsstl]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I heard a difference, so I guess I must be hearing things that are not there?

I'm not saying it got better with changing the op amps.

You might check out this book I posted about here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...2-opamp-rolling-in-fosi-p4.61946/post-2335904.

It's not specific to audio but our brains don't work any differently just because the subject is audio. However, the good news is that since almost all of our listening is done under sighted conditions with full knowledge of the brands & models of the gear involved along with whatever modifications and setup we've done, that info is present in our brain as we listen. So, even if it shouldn't make a difference from a technical or measurement perspective, it can still affect our perception. So, if something sounds "better", take it as win and enjoy it.

 

[olds1959special]

At the very least, the Sparkos SS3602 doesn't have flimsy pins that bend and break when you pull the op-amp out of the socket. I am getting a second Fosi P4 and will roll the op-amp again with the same one so I can use it in my second system.

 

[amirm]

At the very least, the Sparkos SS3602 doesn't have flimsy pins that bend and break when you pull the op-amp out of the socket. I am getting a second Fosi P4 and will roll the op-amp again with the same one so I can use it in my second system.

You are surrounded by incredible amount of knowledge and data about what you are doing. Yet you choose to go the opposite way, wasting money. Can do nothing but be let down by the fact that we still have work to do to get people to trust the science and engineering, instead of their instincts.

 

[olds1959special]

You are surrounded by incredible amount of knowledge and data about what you are doing. Yet you choose to go the opposite way, wasting money. Can do nothing but be let down by the fact that we still have work to do to get people to trust the science and engineering, instead of their instincts.

Thanks, I appreciate this place and science/measurements. I happened to already have the op-amps here and know how to install so I see no harm in using them. I’m not really sure what improvements I’m hearing, but I do hear a difference, and not in a bad way. So maybe I just want to feel better about using the op amps I already paid for a while ago.

 

[DavidM1]

I’m not really sure what improvements I’m hearing, but I do hear a difference, and not in a bad way.

If you do buy another preamp you will be in a good position to try a statistically useful blind test between the one you’ve altered and the new one. You could use a random sequence generated by a web site and known only to an assistant. Match levels as closely as possible and then test your ability to hear the difference unsighted over ten or twenty samples. You might as well find out for sure.

 

[Deleted member 43957]

You might as well find out for sure.

Did you miss when @olds1959special said "So maybe I just want to feel better about using the op amps I already paid for a while ago." Finding out "for sure" isn't his goal. His goal is to "feel better"... not to "know for sure"... usually mutually exclusive processes, depending upon individual dopamine receptors. His path to bliss is rolling op amps... mine is a night hike through the desert on 'shrooms... although this is always my path of trying to find things out "for sure" at the same time... lol.

 

[mlsstl]

His goal is to "feel better"... not to "know for sure"...

That pretty much sums it up. As noted in another post, we rarely listen to music in a truly blind setup. The brand names and models of our equipment, its cost, appearance, reputation, glowing reviews, and so on are bubbling around in our brain as we listen. Not surprising that those factors influence what we think we hear. I accept the fact that I'm the biggest variable in my system. The thing I find most annoying is when the subjectivists deny their own subjectivity and insist their perception is the most accurate scientific measurement device out there.

 

[olds1959special]

What's silly is people who believe there are zero differences between op-amps. Maybe the differences are not significant, but they are there. I should be able to use whatever op-amps I want without being judged or ridiculed. It doesn't mean I don't believe in science!

 

[amirm]

I should be able to use whatever op-amps I want without being judged or ridiculed for my choice.

You are free to do that. But don't come here, state it that there are differences with zero proof.

 

[amirm]

What's silly is people who believe there is zero difference between op-amps.

Demonstrate those differences and reasons why.

 

[Joe Smith]

This is a kind of depressing aspect of human nature, I feel like so many people need to tweak endlessly and try to find a "secret sauce"... Fosi and other makers capitalized on this by putting in the op-amp sockets and encouraging people to swap and buy multiple chips to try. It's easier when you are 66 and have slight tinnitus, it's clear that any microscopic sound differences, even if they exist, I would never be able to hear anyway. I'm sure the Sparkos team and other makers of the discrete chips are all very heppy to keep obliging...

 

[Deleted member 43957]

What's silly is people who believe there are zero differences between op-amps.

Audible?

Maybe the differences are not significant, but they are there.

Where? Show us.

I should be able to use whatever op-amps I want without being judged or ridiculed for my choice.

Of course. I don't think it the choice that is being scrutinized, it's your subjective certainty of the audible impact your choice.

It also does not mean I don't believe in science!

Great... didn't want to start handing out snakes to prove your faith.

 

[olds1959special]

Demonstrate those differences and reasons why.

I can't, they are just things I hear when I change the op-amp. I just thought there would be room for purely subjective opinions here too.