Sparkos SS3602 Opamp Rolling In Fosi P4

[amirm]

I can't, they are just things I hear when I change the op-amp. I just thought there would be room for purely subjective opinions here too.

There is 100% room for that. You just need to perform such evaluation with ears alone and statistical significance.

 

[Deleted member 43957]

I can't, they are just things I hear when I change the op-amp. I just thought there would be room for opinions here too.

Should your opinions be given credence because it's in your head? Should the opinion that the earth is flat be given the same credence that it's spherical, based on hundreds of years of observation, data and scientific discourse? Not here.

Psychoacoustics is an established scientific field, "the scientific study of how humans perceive and interpret sound. It bridges the gap between the physical properties of sound (acoustics) and the psychological and physiological responses to those sounds. Essentially, it explores how our brains process auditory information and the subjective experiences associated with different sounds."

People still believe that Mercury goes into retrograde because they can see it do so with their own eyes. Their eyes and brain are finding patterns that are an illusion... and they aren't even op amp rolling.

 

[DavidM1]

Did you miss when @olds1959special said "So maybe I just want to feel better about using the op amps I already paid for a while ago."

He said “maybe”. There was a glimmer of hope! lol.

Paying for op amps doesn’t make them more or less audible although it does raise the psychological stakes. Did they cost so much that it’s not worth finding out? Probably not.

 

[Ropeburn]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I heard a difference, so I guess I must be hearing things that are not there?

I'm not saying it got better with changing the op amps.

Simplified, our hearing system consists of three main parts: ears (sensor/transducer), auditory center (processor) and higher brain functions including memory and reasoning (interpreter), the latter including and relevant here: expectation management.

Your ears and auditory center didn't hear a difference, but your higher brain interpreted it as such: because the influence of "knowing" something changed and expecting this or that change made it up. Perhaps the one thing our brains as a whole are best at, is making shit up, quite literally. Free association, creativity and imagination of things that don't exist are THE things that set us and our mental capabilities apart from other animals.

It's a big strength because it enables us to be inventive (for example you have to imagine a tool first before being able to build it) and creative to a higher degree than other animals, as far as we know. But of course this fruitful imagination has side effects, like being suspectible to believing well made stories: =lies and/or imaginations. Conmen of all times and ages knew how to exploit this.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

What's silly is people who believe there are zero differences between op-amps.

You are correct. There are many different op-amps, some of which have specialized (e.g. non-audio) functionality.

However, how an op-amp behaves is about 99% down to the circuit that sets its operating parameters. Swapping one op-amp for another (assuming the circuit doesn't become unstable) will have no benefit in a properly designed circuit because a standard op-amp has almost no impact on what happens. Most of the time swapping an op-amp in a well designed circuit (that is optimized around its op-amp) will just degrade the performance. It's very possible you will enjoy that degradation.

I should be able to use whatever op-amps I want without being judged or ridiculed.

You shouldn't be ridiculed if you are keen to learn. You will be judged if you offer no controlled measurements to justify your declarations about sound "improvements".

It doesn't mean I don't believe in science!

You are not demonstrating a belief in science. Science hinges on clear experimental data and independent repeatability of experiments. You are just doing random things and making unsupportable statements whilst expecting respect.

 

[olds1959special]

FWIW, my second Fosi P4 came today, and I immediately rolled the op-amp to SS3602 and plugged it in, and it works.

It was a little tricky trying to get the red tape off the plastic connecter part of the switch, but last time I just yanked the whole switch out, so at least this time I tried to remove the tape first.

 

[antcollinet]

I can't, they are just things I hear when I change the op-amp. I just thought there would be room for purely subjective opinions here too.

There are - but not stated as fact when those subjective opinions have not been gained under controlled conditions.

 

[olds1959special]

I am finding the Sparkos SS3602 op amps slightly bright and etched so I'm curious about trying the Burson V7 classic.

Although I did hear a difference changing out the stock op-amp, can someone explain to me, in detail why I shouldn't be hearing sonic differences between op-amps? I think there must be something missing in the 'science' because I can clearly hear a difference, whether for better or worse.

Is it just adding unwanted distortion?

 

[staticV3]

I think there must be something missing in the 'science' because I can clearly hear a difference

The science has a straightforward answer to your experience: cognitive bias.

The only way to truly listen for real differences in sound is in a controlled, statistically significant listening test. Anything else is worthless.

 

[oleg87]

I am finding the Sparkos SS3602 op amps slightly bright and etched so I'm curious about trying the Burson V7 classic.

Although I did hear a difference changing out the stock op-amp, can someone explain to me, in detail why I shouldn't be hearing sonic differences between op-amps? I think there must be something missing in the 'science' because I can clearly hear a difference, whether for better or worse.

Is it just adding unwanted distortion?

This is starting to feel like trolling

 

[Joe Smith]

In another post you mention that you are in the habit of listening nearfield at 100dB. I have a hard time believing that you are truly hearing meaningful differences between op-amps...

 

[antcollinet]

Is it just adding unwanted distortion?

Almost certainly not.

 

[olds1959special]

I found the Sparkos a bit too forward sounding after time. I had a pair of Muse 02 op amps, but the pins were starting to bend. I salvaged them with op amp risers I got from Sparkos. I have two Fosi P4's in each of my speaker systems, so I changed them both at the same time. I found a pair of small needle nose pliers helped with getting the switch off.

I just watched this and it sounds a bit technical, but I guess he's saying these are good op amps with some better specs than Sparkos? I notice a subtle sound change (warmer and not as bright) as I'm listening to my bookshelf system.

 

[wwenze]

Isn't it curious that specs numbers are always written in datasheets yet things like "brighter sound" aren't.

 

[olds1959special]

Listening now on my other system, I feel like the sound has softer edges and it's very nice. These op amps are staying in my Fosi P4's and I don't see any reason to try Burson V7's or anything else. The MUSE02 has a higher bandwidth, 11MHz vs 10MHz for the Sparkos SS3602.

 

[DavidM1]

I notice a subtle sound change (warmer and not as bright) as I'm listening to my bookshelf system.

I think most people here want to stamp out misinformation and would instantly dismiss anecdotal posts, if not in print then at least mentally. This site respects a scientific approach to inquiry.

There are ways to test whether you hear any difference when none should be audible. Why not try to find out?

 

[olds1959special]

I think most people here want to stamp out misinformation and would instantly dismiss anecdotal posts, if not in print then at least mentally. This site respects a scientific approach to inquiry.

There are ways to test whether you hear any difference when none should be audible. Why not try to find out?

Okay, how should I do that? Put a Sparkos SS3602 in one pre amp and a MUSE02 in the other and shuffle them around with my eyes closed and then see if I can tell which is which?

 

[DavidM1]

Okay, how should I do that?

 

[Ropeburn]

The MUSE02 has a higher bandwidth, 11MHz vs 10MHz for the Sparkos SS3602.

Can you elaborate how this is relevant in an audio application, and why?

 

[MaxwellsEq]

The MUSE02 has a higher bandwidth, 11MHz vs 10MHz for the Sparkos SS3602.

I'm quite old now, so can longer hear above 10MHz, so wouldn't benefit from this.