• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Sparkos SS3602 Opamp Rolling In Fosi P4

Rate this article on opamp rolling:

  • 1. Didn't learn anything

    Votes: 18 11.4%
  • 2. Not terrible

    Votes: 5 3.2%
  • 3. Found it usefl.

    Votes: 38 24.1%
  • 4. It was very nice to read it.

    Votes: 97 61.4%

  • Total voters
    158

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
47,255
Likes
270,515
Location
Seattle Area
This is a detailed measurements of effect of swapping the stock NE5532P op-amp in Fosi P4 preamplifier with Sparkos SS3602 "discrete" opamp. The SS3602 costs US $79.80 and the NE5532P, US $0.47.
Fosi P4 Sparkos SS3602 Opamp discreet rolling swapping 5532 review.jpg

Swapping opamps in P4 is more challenging due to back connectors/switches that need to be disconnected. I am not sure how successful I will be putting it back together as some of the tiny screws are almost stripped now. I looked and there was no obvious mention of swapping opamps in P4 from Fosi so I suggest not trying it regardless of what you are about to see.

So far, we have tested these discreet opamps in both high-end and budget power amplifiers and a DAC. Suggestion was made to test in this pre-amp as that removes the variable of output stage swamping differences in opamps. So here we are.

Sparkos SS3602 Opamp Compared to 5532 in Fosi P4
Let's start with our dashboard of 1 kHz tone with unity gain:
Fosi P4 Stock NE5532P Opamp dashboard measurement.png

Since this result was slightly different than when I reviewed Fosi P4, I re-ran every comparison you are about to see. Let's look at what happens with we swap that 5532P with SS3602:

Fosi P4 Sparkos SS3602 Opamp dashboard measurement.png

Results are identical within the margin of moment to moment variations in measurements. We can confirm that the gain is the same as well (as it should be). Distortion and noise floor remain identical as well. For clarity on the latter, here is the SNR measurement:
Fosi P4 Stock NE5532P Opamp SNR measurement.png


Frequency response is the same:
Fosi P4 Stock NE5532P Opamp Frequency Response measurement.png


So tonality and noise floor are the same. Let's expand our testing to full audible frequency sweep:
Fosi P4 Stock NE5532P Opamp THD vs Frequency measurement.png


We see the distortion slightly rising with frequency with SS3602 as we go above 10 kHz. I re-ran the test and it was repeatable. From audibility it means nothing but does show that the discrete op-amp is not as good as our bargain standard part. Focusing on that, I ran the 19 and 20 kHz intermodulation test:
Fosi P4 Sparkos SS3602 Opamp 19 20 kHz measurement.png

We see that again, Sparkos has higher distortion spikes but since they are ultrasonic and at any rate, very low amplitude, they are of no audible consequence.

For another dual tone test, let's run our standard SMPTE IMD signal which has both a low frequency 60 Hz and high frequency, 7 kHz tone (in 4:1 ratio):
Fosi P4 Stock NE5532P Opamp IMD measurement.png

This is as identical as the results get.

Conclusions
Once again we show that without circuit modifications, these expensive opamps either show no measurable effect, or what they show is negligible but not better. Subjective, uncontrolled listening tests of benefit are proof that we perceive differences that are not there. If the differences are as obvious as these proponents claim, they should be able to detect them easily in a simple level matched, blind test. I hope instead of protesting these results, they take half hour and perform such a controlled test. Heaven knows I have spent far more than that producing proof points of inaudibility.

I don't recommend you modify any audio device. If they perform excellently already, please leave well enough alone. If your system is causing fatigue, has high noise floor, shrunk soundstage, etc. then you should question how you arrived at it in the first place!

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
 
I would think that the post filter feedback is also executed by one of the opamps. Surely a fast type should do a bit different from the 5532 in this area?
 
I would think that the post filter feedback is also executed by one of the opamps. Surely a fast type should do a bit different from the 5532 in this area?
This is a preamplifier so has no "post filter feedback."
 
And now, those opamp rollers with their arms up-in-the-air needs to bring their arms down, and learn something now … :) :)
 
Last edited:
If the Fosi P4 is still in a tear-down state, perhaps the final nail to dissuade nay-sayers is to compare a NE5532P with a more recent integrated op amp design rather than a discrete component op amp like the Sparkos. This will be a true like for like comparison and should provide a reference for any future disputation on the subject.

Many thanks Amir for yet again taking the time and trouble to prove that audiophiles can be audiophools.
 
Voted "Didn't learn anything." Only because I think this horse is quite dead.
 
We see the distortion slightly rising with frequency with SS3602 as we go above 10 kHz. I re-ran the test and it was repeatable. From audibility it means nothing but does show that the discrete op-amp is not as good as our bargain standard part.

32765910-6238-4b8c-aa13-459ba07253ff_text.gif
:cool:

Keep going with the debunking opamps myth Amir... that how we roll at ASR, thanks.


JSmith
 
Conclusions
Once again we show that without circuit modifications, these expensive opamps either show no measurable effect, or what they show is negligible but not better.

Yeah but….but….but…you didn’t listen to the op-amp in “insert obscure made in a garden shed device here” and blah….blah…..blah…..I hear a clear difference.

;)


Folk will not listen to facts nor will they educate themselves, which has been evidently proven, but thumbs up for attempting and laying out repeatable data
 
This is a detailed measurements of effect of swapping the stock NE5532P op-amp in Fosi P4 preamplifier with Sparkos SS3602 "discrete" opamp. The SS3602 costs US $79.80 and the NE5532P, US $0.47.
View attachment 441618
Swapping opamps in P4 is more challenging due to back connectors/switches that need to be disconnectors. I am not sure how successful I will be putting it back together as some of the tiny screws are almost stripped now. I looked and there was no obvious mention of swapping opamps in P4 from Fosi so I suggest not trying it regardless of what you are about to see.

So far, we have tested these discreet opamps in both high-end and budget power amplifiers and a DAC. Suggestion was made to test in this pre-amp as that removes the variable of output stage swamping differences in opamps. So here we are.

Sparkos SS3602 Opamp Compared to 5532 in Fosi P4
Let's start with our dashboard of 1 kHz tone with unity gain:
View attachment 441621
Since this result was slightly different than when I reviewed Fosi P4, I re-ran every comparison you are about to see. Let's look at what happens with we swap that 5532P with SS3602:

View attachment 441622
Results are identical within the margin of moment to moment variations in measurements. We can confirm that the gain is the same as well (as it should be). Distortion and noise floor remain identical as well. For clarity on the latter, here is the SNR measurement:
View attachment 441624

Frequency response is the same:
View attachment 441625

So tonality and noise floor are the same. Let's expand our testing to full audible frequency sweep:
View attachment 441626

We see the distortion slightly rising with frequency with SS3602 as we go above 10 kHz. I re-ran the test and it was repeatable. From audibility it means nothing but does show that the discrete op-amp is not as good as our bargain standard part. Focusing on that, I ran the 19 and 20 kHz intermodulation test:
View attachment 441627
We see that again, Sparkos has higher distortion spikes but since they are ultrasonic and at any rate, very low amplitude, they are of no audible consequence.

For another dual tone test, let's run our standard SMPTE IMD signal which has both a low frequency 60 Hz and high frequency, 7 kHz tone (in 4:1 ratio):
View attachment 441628
This is as identical as the results get.

Conclusions
Once again we show that without circuit modifications, these expensive opamps either show no measurable effect, or what they show is negligible but not better. Subjective, uncontrolled listening tests of benefit are proof that we perceive differences that are not there. If the differences are as obvious as these proponents claim, they should be able to detect them easily in a simple level matched, blind test. I hope instead of protesting these results, they take half hour and perform such a controlled test. Heaven knows I have spent far more than that producing proof points of inaudibility.

I don't recommend you modify any audio device. If they perform excellently already, please leave well enough alone. If your system is causing fatigue, has high noise floor, shrunk soundstage, etc. then you should question how you arrived at it in the first place!

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
If you want to hear a difference with the Sparkos you need to install it backwards. :)
 
You know, there was a wonderful video released a couple days ago about how terrible the old LM78 op amp is by today's standards.

If the LM78 is pin compatible (haha. No.), it might be interesting to compare.

The thing about the above video is: if you understand it, you already know the op amp swapping (as described by Amir) is pointless.

But, people who don't know will misunderstand it and think that because one, specific, historic op amp (among the first IC op amps - it's been around longer than I have) has bad behavior, well, everything must! ain't so.

The video goes out of its way to point out better (cheap) op amps.
 
Hold on, I thought the Sparko is supposed to have higher GBW and bandwidth / slew rate? Why is the distortion rising earlier?
 
Discrete op amp ? The whole idea of the op amp is that it is on one single silicone dye it makes a quite complex design cheap and ubiquitous small and universal ( with limits and corner cases , that’s why we have different kinds for some applications).


And yes the NE5532 is it not from 1979 to solve the problems with early generations of op amps for audio applications,
as I actually learned from the other tread :) Sugest this as the date when small signal amplification became a solved problem .


If you want discrete build a discrete circuit from the ground up for your application or a mix of op and discrete that solves your design goals.


The whole product category plays on the audiophile myth that there is something inherently wrong with op amps ? Just like tubes are better than transistors and feedback is bad myths ?


I’m sure there are some drawbacks of op amps compared to discrete the audiophile spin doctors can bend out of context and proportions to sell them to you .
Figured why god designers sometimes use them and others times don’t yet ?


It’s a cargo cult hobby , there are persistent myths and universal ideas of every class of component in the audiophile pantheon .
Born out of oversimplified assumptions and taking things out of context . MOSFET vs bipolar ? GAN , capacitors ?
In this pantheon every component has a ”sound” of it own that somehow magically transcends the circuit they are used in ?
This is not how electronics works.
 
Hold on, I thought the Sparko is supposed to have higher GBW and bandwidth / slew rate? Why is the distortion rising earlier?
Until such time that they provide proper, detailed measurements, one doesn't know what SS3602 is "supposed" to do. That aside, slew rate requirements are quite modest at 10 to 20 kHz in grand scheme of things. So if it has better slew rate, it is not solving anything.
 
If you want to hear a difference with the Sparkos you need to install it backwards. :)

Where can I purchase a Sokraps to try such an experiment?
 
Back
Top Bottom