Follow up video I did on op-amp rolling, covering the latest two tests:
[And subscribe to the channel
]
[And subscribe to the channel
I'm still looking for a solid example of "voicing" in home audio electronics. Over twenty years now since I started asking and still not a one. Just handwaves and anecdotes. So I think it's safe to give up that belief.Are comments such as these about the character of a components sound due to the addition of color or distortion to the audio signal output by the component designer who "voices" the amplifier or DAC?
He has an ideal "job." You can say anything you want and there will be a number of people who believe you. No need to prove anything either.This dude is totally at odds with you AmirLOL
There is no mechanism to design any such things in electronics. What there is, is our brain interpreting the limited stereo sound reproduction based on clues it captures. These clues vary from time to time and are subject to imagination, bias, etc. This is why when we blind the listener, all of these characteristics disappear.Are comments such as these about the character of a components sound due to the addition of color or distortion to the audio signal output by the component designer who "voices" the amplifier or DAC?
and of coarse he gets to use the familiar words like 'tighter bass', better soundstage, smoother presentation, more 3D and whatnot. People all want that and as the guy is clearly sponsored by Sparkos he will say stuff like that and his followers will eat those words and rush to Sparkos to 'upgrade' their cheap amps.He has an ideal "job." You can say anything you want and there will be a number of people who believe you. No need to prove anything either.
Hello,There is no mechanism to design any such things in electronics. What there is, is our brain interpreting the limited stereo sound reproduction based on clues it captures. These clues vary from time to time and are subject to imagination, bias, etc. This is why when we blind the listener, all of these characteristics disappear.
What is there is noise, distortion, and frequency response error. Noise is noise. Distortion can hide detail but requires a lot of it. It can also cause brightness due to extra harmonics. Frequency response would be colorations but it is rare in electronics.
And it just happens that the 80 buck discrete opamp is way better than its 50 cent silicon counterpart that measures identically in the same circuit. Funny about thatand of coarse he gets to use the familiar words like 'tighter bass', better soundstage, smoother presentation, more 3D and whatnot. People all want that and as the guy is clearly sponsored by Sparkos he will say stuff like that and his followers will eat those words and rush to Sparkos to 'upgrade' their cheap amps.
They too (like Danny) will hear the vast improvements because .. well... placebo works like a charm.
The output signal of the amp provably does not change but of course the sound does because ... well ... measurements say nothing about the sound.
The sad part is for every review/video with objective measurements showing actual performance (differences) one can find 10x (or more) YT videos and 'reviews' spouting nonsense and 'this sounds better' stuff.
I would say ... proper info is out there but hard to find and 'dry' ... people want 'better sound' and flashy videos with 'flowery talk' and nonsensical 'semi-technical' explanations confirming what they hope confirms what they think (actually t... know) in their heart to be true.
What? That is not "voicing." Simply raising distortion is not voicing. Tuning the frequency response of a speaker is that. Not just screwing up the design to see more distortion. And the fact that you could not hear it, adds to the fact that it is not voicing.More than a couple of years ago using my AP 2522 analyzer I put a tube similar to a 6DJ8 on a breadboard and dialed the distortion up to several %. Yes an attempt at "voicing". I could easily see it on the analyzer but I could not hear it
See this 12B4A triode stair step. This was a SET headphone amplifier with intended SET "Voicing"
Best example of projection I have seen recently....I have the impression what you are saying is intentional misinformation.
Yep, that's not weird at all.. once you realize that the cheap NE5532 and the 160x more expensive discrete part both have better performance than the output stage (TPA3255) which comes after the op-amps.And it just happens that the 80 buck discrete opamp is way better than its 50 cent silicon counterpart that measures identically in the same circuit. Funny about that![]()
The phase of the signal is determined/limited by the output filter of the class-D output stage. That of both op-amps is vastly higher up in the frequency response than that of the output stage to make any impact so its a pointless endeavor.Can the phase of the signals be tested as well when swapping opamps?
It can but to what end? Check for stability or something else?Can the phase of the signals be tested as well when swapping opamps?
I agree, but I can see where the confusion might arise. Is there an agreed definition of attributes like "voicing"? Is it simply FR deviations, or could it also apply to, say, increased bass distortion giving a "thicker" sound?What? That is not "voicing." Simply raising distortion is not voicing. Tuning the frequency response of a speaker is that. Not just screwing up the design to see more distortion. And the fact that you could not hear it, adds to the fact that it is not voicing.
Best example of projection I have seen recently....
Generally. And that is giving the device a sound that deviates from neutral in a specifically designed manner.Is there an agreed definition of attributes like "voicing"?
If "component" means a circuit component, e.g. capacitor, op-amp, etc then yes."Voicing" does NOT happen (or has never been demonstrated to happen) from the choice of capacitors or resistors or wire or whatever, which is usually where these evidence-free claims originate.
If so then I expect there are examples of, say, power amps that are voiced different from flat.Your dispassionate technical analysis and teaching of component measurement science has provided me new understanding & perspective versus more common component "listening perspective" reviews!
And yet... I've been asking for decades and not a single demonstrated example beyond source impedance interactions (which are more a function of speaker and NOT consistent for a product) has been named.If so then I expect there are examples of, say, power amps that are voiced different from flat.
So you do mean whole amplifier products. Ok. I would have thought there were amps with weak/compressed bass owing to power supply limits or whatnot but I'm just guessing. Let's keep asking!And yet... I've been asking for decades and not a single demonstrated example beyond source impedance interactions (which are more a function of speaker and NOT consistent for a product) has been named.
Not one.
Run within their power limits, no.Ok. I would have thought there were amps with weak/compressed bass owing to power supply limits