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Denon AVR-X4700H 2020 AVR Review

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Colonel7

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From a science standpoint, we need to test the X3700H
Or morbid curiosity...:facepalm: Man, these have been disappointing and it's clear there is a bevy of folks hungry for another very good and not even great performer. Its gotta be tough to be in the market for AVRs right now
 

Deeluik

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I was thinking exactly that reading through the results. There is no way they even set any quantitative project targets. It seems like the 3600 was either purely an accident/fluke or 1 team/project lead gave a shit one time, which is also an accident but at a company level.




Please keep in mind I know nothing about Denon or the usual structure of companies in the audio industry. I do know a thing or two (not much more) about working at a very large OEM (as well as suppliers), which uses in house designed and made parts as well as many supplier made parts. So, I'm making some extrapolations here. I would venture to gamble that any company this large has to pick a strategy of how much or specifically what they are going to do in house VS spec to supplier. At least they should try to intelligently chose a strategy hopefully based on what they are good at doing, what is critical for them to do VS not so critical, but some are probably just also falling into it by accident. So some companies say they are good at... specifying parts to put together? It's entirely possible that Denon is not designing or making a single actual part inside of that unit. Even then it is still up to the OEM to make a solid thorough spec, test and hold the suppliers accountable to the spec, as well as the obvious final fully assembled unit performance. But at some point when you go to far down the rabbit hole of using only supplier parts the job starts to morph from engineer to project manager. IMHO when you get too many of those, things start to fall apart.
It seems like the cheaper AVR’s are actually better than the more expensive ones. Maybe it is because the cheaper ones are closer to the OEM reference designs and with the more expensive ones they get extra budget to screw up these OEM designs???
 

Bachemar

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@amirm maybe there is a difference between the 8k hdmi input and the others? If you still have the unit would you be able to do a quick test of a regular 4K input?
 

GXAlan

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It seems like the cheaper AVR’s are actually better than the more expensive ones. Maybe it is because the cheaper ones are closer to the OEM reference designs and with the more expensive ones they get extra budget to screw up these OEM designs???

There has to be a trade off between 11, 13, and 16 channels right? The more expensive ones always put more channels in the same box. What I don't know is if the X4700H is doing poorly because of the electronics required for Auro3D or because of the electronics required for 8K (first gen HDMI receiver vs. "mature" 4K technology)

What people want is an AVP-A1HDCI with 4K or even 8K support (if it had clean HDMI). Owners of the SDP-55 say that the AVP-A1HDCI had lower noise level although the full 16 ch of the SDP-55 makes for a better movie experience.
 

restorer-john

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One of them was if the pre-amp mode completely cut the power to all the internal amplifiers such that the unit runs cold all the time. The written answer I received back in the chat window was yes it cuts all the power to the internal amplifiers and runs cold.

It's highly unlikely what they said is true. To actually cut the power to the power amplifiers would mean the power amplifier rails were switched (likely via relays) and the protection circuitry was set to no longer monitor offset/over current/short etc for all the amplifier channels. Consider relays in the main supplies to 11 channels of power amplification would need to be very high current carrying contacts so as to not affect the normal operation. I've never seen an AVR that kills the power stages completely.

Muting the front ends maybe.
 

Angsty

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It seems like most of the AVRs measured here do a crappy job. If I were in the market, I’d want to go with separates.

But, who now even has good AV preamps? I am not encouraged by the AVR testing so far.
 

Doodski

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It's highly unlikely what they said is true. To actually cut the power to the power amplifiers would mean the power amplifier rails were switched (likely via relays) and the protection circuitry was set to no longer monitor offset/over current/short etc for all the amplifier channels. Consider relays in the main supplies to 11 channels of power amplification would need to be very high current carrying contacts so as to not affect the normal operation. I've never seen an AVR that kills the power stages completely.

Muting the front ends maybe.
I opened the owners manual.php and could not find any disabling feature for cutting power to the amp sections.
http://manuals.denon.com/AVRX4700H/NA/EN/index.php
https://usa.denon.com/en-us/downloads/manuals-and-downloads
 

restorer-john

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I opened the owners manual.php and could not find any disabling feature for cutting power to the amp sections.

Anyone got the S/M? Schematic will tell us in a few seconds what they are doing.

Amir doesn't even need to open it up- switching the feature should immediately drop the power consumption (on his line monitor if he has one) if it were true.
 

wwenze

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Someday I should try whether a -40dB "floor" of 32-tone IMD is audible... maybe through A-B (and X if it isn't obvious) against a good-measuring one.

How do people not hear such atrocities yet hear night-and-day from power cables.
 

GXAlan

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You'll have to go back to the early 1980s to get SOTA 2 channel performance from Denon...

Or Japan. Shouldn’t the POA-S1 be pretty impressive from the late 90’s or the POA-SX1 Limited perform well?
 

Sancus

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Dj7675

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@amirm yet another detailed review of a receiver. While I heard the comment of "why bother" measuring receivers I think it is the most interesting and important reviews (excluding speakers) that is done here. If Sound United starts paying attention that many people do care about the measured audio performance of their A/V receivers, we could see improvements in the next cycle. Like someone already mentioned we need the x3700 tested for sure a well as the x8500 as well to get a more complete picture.
I would also second the request to test the preamp mode if possible. Thanks again for such a great and timely review.
I should add this is disappointing and a bit surprising.... although with brands/models there seems to be no rhyme or reason to performance
 
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lloyd84

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So that new TOTL $1700 surround sound amp is OK... as long as you feed it an analog signal from an external DAC in two channel mode. Hmmm. I feel like Denon may just possibly have missed the point of this product.

Also it's amusing that we can buy super clean state of the art two channel gear but most of the music out there is severely messed up thanks to the loudness wars, while we can get beautifully mastered multi channel soundtracks in lossless quality with amazing dynamic range but the gear to play them on is laughably bad. Good job, audio industry!
 
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amirm

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The 2020 Denon's have a full pre-amp mode where all internal amplifiers are disconnected. It would be interesting to see if that helps with the DAC performance with HDMI input.
It doesn't make a difference:

Denon AVR-X4700H 8K Home Theater Receiver AVR Dolby Atmos Surround HDMI In Pre-amp mode Measur...png
 
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amirm

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Amir doesn't even need to open it up- switching the feature should immediately drop the power consumption (on his line monitor if he has one) if it were true.
Good suggestion. On power up, consumption was about 105 watts. Upon activation of pre-amp mode and exiting from the menu, I heard a nice relay clunk and consumption dropped to 56 watts. So it is definitely shutting down power to the amps.

Shame they did not put in an extra relay to only shut off the three front channels so the rest of the amps could be used for less important channels.
 
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amirm

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@amirm maybe there is a difference between the 8k hdmi input and the others? If you still have the unit would you be able to do a quick test of a regular 4K input?
I am using the regular 4K (STB) input for testing.
 
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