Marantz Cinema 40 AVR Review

[Miker 1102]

You can Bitstream Atmos with hdr on the PC. I have never used DTX so I am not sure about it. Dolby vision was the only thing I didn't think worked so I bought a shield which will stream ripped files. I guess that's a grey area for people. I don't have any issue wirh it.

 

[geox]

NAD did a modular AVR, but it seems there are no new updates. To be honest, the revolutionary element would be moving the whole AVR thing to pure software and make it PC-friendly. Outsourcing all the processing, via RJ45 or USB to a PC and keep the AVR as an interface.

Trinnov is essentially this.

 

[Vacceo]

Trinnov is essentially this.

Trinov is still a closed system you cannot imstall on your pc.

 

[geox]

Trinov is still a closed system you cannot imstall on your pc.

Yes.. you are right. I should have been clearer.

Trinnov is essentially avr software installed and locked specific to a trinnov built p.

Tells you the super niche market we are in.. when software is eating the world.. no one seems to attempting to turn avrs into software.

 

[Vacceo]

Truth is, you have Dirac on PC, so that´s one of the links of the chain. Dolby could also give us the capacity to decode on PC paying a license. PC can stream whatever we want and have all the connectivity you may need. And manufacturing a user friendly interface based on Dante shouldn´t be too hard, even to include little extras in the form of XLR/RCA for legacy systems (turntables, tapes or whatever).

My guess is that Dolby is not probably happy about that as the sale of audio gears with licenses is probably a nice chunk of their income and selling pc licenses may not look promising. Still, the tech is there so it does not require developing anything new.

A system that offloads processing and EQ to a PC could allow competition on codecs, EQ solutions and so on. The risk I see is cracking the codes and piracy/industrial spionage due to the open nature of the PC; so that can play a part too.

 

[strumf666]

Coax and toslink behaves the same? I don't see any measurements for coax. But according to the data having an external dac connected to analog input is even better?

 

[Vacceo]

Coax and toslink behaves the same? I don't see any measurements for coax. But according to the data having an external dac connected to analog input is even better?

Not necessarily. A DAC has to be really broken to degrade sound quality.

You don't really listen to the DAC, you listen to the speakers/headphone and whatever sends them the analogue amplified signal.

 

[Descartes]

Trinnov is essentially this.

For $20,000 starting price!!

 

[Miker 1102]

Truth is, you have Dirac on PC, so that´s one of the links of the chain. Dolby could also give us the capacity to decode on PC paying a license. PC can stream whatever we want and have all the connectivity you may need. And manufacturing a user friendly interface based on Dante shouldn´t be too hard, even to include little extras in the form of XLR/RCA for legacy systems (turntables, tapes or whatever).

My guess is that Dolby is not probably happy about that as the sale of audio gears with licenses is probably a nice chunk of their income and selling pc licenses may not look promising. Still, the tech is there so it does not require developing anything new.

A system that offloads processing and EQ to a PC could allow competition on codecs, EQ solutions and so on. The risk I see is cracking the codes and piracy/industrial spionage due to the open nature of the PC; so that can play a part too.

Yes. This is why it was always so hard to watch movies on a pc. For blu ray, there was only one software that was licensed to do it ..Unless you resorted to other methods to get around the copyright.

 

[Optixx]

So it‘s better to pick up the Denon 4800h over this Marantz

 

[betonven]

So it‘s better to pick up the Denon 4800h over this Marantz

It's a multi-parametric problem. After getting the 4800, it was still eating me that I didn't have the chance to listen to the 40. When I found a deal for the 40 at $3K (aka $500 more than the Denon), I decided to bite, try it too in parallel, and return the one that I decide I like the least.

The sound differences that were audible to me were marginal (a bit more space, a bit more air around the high frequencies), but to the better. However, the overall experience of Marantz was so much better that I'm inclined to keep it. By 'experience', I mean:

1. Backlit remote (super important) - also, seems to work without direct eye-contact with the receiver (equally important).
2. Bigger box = gets less hot on the surface
3. The minimal pothole screen is actually all you need for regular viewing, and distracts you less than the 2-line screen of Denon. If you want more, you can open the door and get the same as Denon as an added benefit.
4. Looks beautiful - side by side, it makes the Denon look cheap
5. 2 years more warranty

Do all the above justify $1000? Probably not. But (for me) they do justify the $500 if you find the 40 in a good deal.

 

[peng]

It's a multi-parametric problem. After getting the 4800, it was still eating me that I didn't have the chance to listen to the 40. When I found a deal for the 40 at $3K (aka $500 more than the Denon), I decided to bite, try it too in parallel, and return the one that I decide I like the least.

The sound differences that were audible to me were marginal (a bit more space, a bit more air around the high frequencies), but to the better. However, the overall experience of Marantz was so much better that I'm inclined to keep it. By 'experience', I mean:

1. Backlit remote (super important) - also, seems to work without direct eye-contact with the receiver (equally important).
2. Bigger box = gets less hot on the surface
3. The minimal pothole screen is actually all you need for regular viewing, and distracts you less than the 2-line screen of Denon. If you want more, you can open the door and get the same as Denon as an added benefit.
4. Looks beautiful - side by side, it makes the Denon look cheap
5. 2 years more warranty

Do all the above justify $1000? Probably not. But (for me) they do justify the $500 if you find the 40 in a good deal.

It is much easier to justify for those in Europe and Asia. For example, in France the difference in list prices is Euro 200 only.

 

[betonven]

So, I did a more formal test yesterday, as I wanted to finalize my decision on which of the two to keep (Marantz Cinema 40 vs Denon x4800). I'm not a reviewer (not even close), and I'm not an audiophile in the classic definition (I cannot hear the grass grow ), so I followed a methodology that just made sense to me, also trying to minimize bias and placebo.

The two AVRs were tested as pre-amplifiers in 2-channel playback (I'm using an Onkyo M5015 powering my two mains anyway, which might be in the future upgraded to something better, so pre-amps were what I wanted to test). I ran the speakers (Klipsch RP4000) as full range to avoid using subs. They were both in pure direct mode, fed with Tidal through AirPlay from my iPhone, to make things quicker for changes (just had to hook the double RCA from Denon's pre-out to Marantz's pre-out). In both AVRs I had all other speakers to 'no', so only the mains were involved in the playback. Volumes were kept at same level, and I used my wife (completely off the audio game) to have a second, unbiased opinion. She didn't know which one was playing, she didn't know which one is more expensive, and I always asked her opinion before I told her mine, to keep bias to a bare minimum. The process involved listening to 1-2 pieces in one, and then to the same 1-2 pieces in the other, and we repeated this for 6-7 times for each.

The results were interesting, as we did both agree in ALL cases that device A (Marantz) was sounding more natural/analog, more 'organic', and device B (Denon) was sounding more processed/digital. The differences were at times very clear, in some cases marginal (e.g. in songs where the voice was deliberately mildly distorted through effects), but they were always there, pointing towards the same trend. Subtle, but present.

One big doubt that I have for my process is that I cannot be 100% certain on whether I did set the Denon to pre-out only (it is possilble I left it to pre-out and speakers). That, in theory, could introduce some noise which could in theory be partly responsible for the 'digital' noise I perceived, but I highly doubt that it would be that audible (especially given that all other channels were off).

In any case, I made my decision, and Denon (which is otherwise a great AVR) will give its place to the new king of my living room, Mr (or Ms) Marantz Cinema 40.

 

[sask15]

I did find the Marantz Cinema 40 to sound better than the 4800 myself as well. I like the fit and finish/ overall look of it better too. Nicer remote as well. I wish I knew the Cinema 30 was coming out soon though but don’t think I will sell my Cinema 40 for the 30.

 

[Junkru11]

Hi. I have been the owner of Cinema 40 for a week now. Before that I had an SR7015 for 1 year. And the development is still very noticeable, the C40 plays/behaves quite differently than the SR. The sound image is still noticeably better. The plan was initially to buy MM7055 and connect it according to SR7015. But reading other forums and topics that it would not have been of much noticeable benefit. The plan was to leverage L/C/R. And in my country, MM7055 costs 1400eur. And C40 was 2000eur. So I decided on the C40 and I don't regret it. And in my eyes the C40 is more future proof than the SR7015. And as already mentioned above, of course, the appearance and the remote control. And definitely LED solutions on the sides. Which color can then be changed to white or blue.

 

[betonven]

I was wondering if anyone knows the true power consumption of the Cinema 40 in 'normal' load conditions (~75dB listening levels with all 9 channels driven). I read an article that clarified that what is written on the back of these receivers (710W in the case of the 40), doesn't reflect the actual power this can draw at full load, and this load could be much more. I feel this could become a problem, especially for the many people that live in old houses (with old wiring); in most cases, the AVR, TV, sub, etc. will end up into the same 15A circuit, I mean, in theory the worst thing that could happen is for the fuse to do its thing and stop the party, but I'm not sure if working the wiring constantly just a hint before the fuse threshold would be a good idea. Currently, to avoid that, I'm running my sub from a different circuit through a heavy duty extension cable, but I'd like to get a 5-CH power amplifier to feed my dream speakers that I hope I'll be able to get in the near future and are 4Ohms. So, I'm planning to run a separate 20A circuit for that, but it would still be useful to know these numbers and plan accordingly.

 

[peng]

I was wondering if anyone knows the true power consumption of the Cinema 40 in 'normal' load conditions (~75dB listening levels with all 9 channels driven). I read an article that clarified that what is written on the back of these receivers (710W in the case of the 40), doesn't reflect the actual power this can draw at full load, and this load could be much more. I feel this could become a problem, especially for the many people that live in old houses (with old wiring); in most cases, the AVR, TV, sub, etc. will end up into the same 15A circuit, I mean, in theory the worst thing that could happen is for the fuse to do its thing and stop the party, but I'm not sure if working the wiring constantly just a hint before the fuse threshold would be a good idea. Currently, to avoid that, I'm running my sub from a different circuit through a heavy duty extension cable, but I'd like to get a 5-CH power amplifier to feed my dream speakers that I hope I'll be able to get in the near future and are 4Ohms. So, I'm planning to run a separate 20A circuit for that, but it would still be useful to know these numbers and plan accordingly.

No one can know that, because "true power consumption" is not a constant value when listening to music or watching movies/video.

Having said that, in general, one dedicated 15 A circuit will be more than adequate for such a midrange avr, basically nothing to worry. It should be fine even if you listen to reference level from 10 ft, unless your speakers are truly 4 ohms nominal, then a 15 A circuit is still fine but you should then use a suitable power amp.

 

[betonven]

No one can know that, because "true power consumption" is not a constant value when listening to music or watching movies/video.

Having said that, in general, one dedicated 15 A circuit will be more than adequate for such a midrange avr, basically nothing to worry. It should be fine even if you listen to reference level from 10 ft, unless your speakers are truly 4 ohms nominal, then a 15 A circuit is still fine but you should then use a suitable power amp.

Thanks, it does make sense that it’s difficult to have a standard value to use as consumption, although something in the direction of ‘driving all channels at reference levels at 8Ω‘ could be more clear as a reference.

I’m not even approaching reference levels (usually my level is at -12 or so) as my current speakers are super easy (Klipsch), but for now the circuit is not dedicated to the Cinema 40, it has to carry also a 2Ch Onkyo 5010 powering my mains, my 77” OLED, my PS5 (plus my Blu-ray, turntable, phono, and Apple TV, but these would not be ever used at the same time as the PS5)

So far I thought that based on the labeled wattage on the back of the devices I’d be fine (710 for marantz, 150 for onkyo, 160 for TV, 200 for PS5, ~50 for Blu-ray player, so a total of <1300, so even at peaks safely lower than the 1800 limit), but now I realize that the AVR which drives the rest 9 speakers could in theory reach well over a 1000 at times (probably not with my listening habits though).

I’m wondering, playing near the limit of 1800 could compromise your wiring, or the fuse will kick in before it gets dangerous?

 

[peng]

Thanks, it does make sense that it’s difficult to have a standard value to use as consumption, although something in the direction of ‘driving all channels at reference levels at 8Ω‘ could be more clear as a reference.

I’m not even approaching reference levels (usually my level is at -12 or so) as my current speakers are super easy (Klipsch), but for now the circuit is not dedicated to the Cinema 40, it has to carry also a 2Ch Onkyo 5010 powering my mains, my 77” OLED, my PS5 (plus my Blu-ray, turntable, phono, and Apple TV, but these would not be ever used at the same time as the PS5)

I have been to a few Mc dealers demo rooms and took videos of a pair of their 1.25 kW monoblock amps and a 300 W integrated, driving speakers at >$20,000 to $30,000. Listened at moderately loud level in their large rooms, and the meters never show peaks above 200 W, even driving the huge KEF Blades.

Here's one that shows the lower half (50%) meters displays are dedicated for <3.5 W, wisely as that's where the needle stays 99% of the time when I was there listening at rather loud level, driving a pair of 4 ohm, Sonus Faber's near flagship that has sensitivity around 90 dB.

I took a photo right at the moment the needle hit about 0.35 W during on of not too frequent peak, it was during some orchestral jazz kind of music iirc.

 

[peng]

I’m not even approaching reference levels (usually my level is at -12 or so) as my current speakers are super easy (Klipsch), but for now the circuit is not dedicated to the Cinema 40, it has to carry also a 2Ch Onkyo 5010 powering my mains, my 77” OLED, my PS5 (plus my Blu-ray, turntable, phono, and Apple TV, but these would not be ever used at the same time as the PS5)

I can almost guarantee you (would put my engineer's stamp on it lol...) that you will still be fine though if everything gets to turn on at the same time, it could trip your breaker once in the blue moon when the instantaneous current might reach a huge value (many times, like >20 times or much higher of the rated 15 A). That sort of condition could happen but very unlikely.

I prefer to use dedicated circuit for the mid, especially upper mid (your Marantz) and flagship level such as the TX-NR5010 (if yours the little 2ch M-5010 then no problem), but that's mainly because I like to follow best practices.

So far I thought that based on the labeled wattage on the back of the devices I’d be fine (710 for marantz, 150 for onkyo, 160 for TV, 200 for PS5, ~50 for Blu-ray player, so a total of <1300, so even at peaks safely lower than the 1800 limit), but now I realize that the AVR which drives the rest 9 speakers could in theory reach well over a 1000 at times (probably not with my listening habits though).

I’m wondering, playing near the limit of 1800 could compromise your wiring, or the fuse will kick in before it gets dangerous?

Those labels are only useful for comparing units within the same brand/model lines, because different manufacturers may follow different rules/standards/best practices etc., or even just their own.

Denon and Marantz follow some sort of existing standard and the best write-up I could find is one published by Gene of Audioholics.com and I have posted it a couple time before, sooner of later I need to book mark that great article for D+M users, so I don't have to search for it every time I want to post it for them.

Since you have the Marantz, you really should read it:

Receiver Power Consumption Rating vs Output Power Is Not Watt You Think!

Ever wonder how your favorite manufacturer rates power consumption on their AV receivers and how it relates to maximum available output power to your speakers? The answer may surprise you so read on.

www.audioholics.com

Especially the following section:

Marantz SR8015 Example:

The SR8015 rated power 140wpc x 11 channels but the back panel power consumption is only 780 watts.

Marantz de-rates 2CH power rating to drive ALL 11 channels for the IEC 62368 safety test. In this case, 90.4 watts for ALL 11CH driven.

1/8th power (90.4 watts) = 11.3wpc / 0.17 eff = 66.5 watts

66.5 watts x 11 = 731 watts + 35 watts from HDMI, DAC = 766.5 watts < 780 watts back panel rating

Note: Our bench tests of the SR8015 produced 100wpc x 7 ACD which would yield a power consumption of 700/0.55 (eff) 1272 watts + 35 watts = 1307 watts > 780 watts back panel power rating.

Someone on an audio forum is about to type "But wait, 1307 watts > 10% above 780 watts (858 watts). Yes they are correct, however, this is NOT a violation of the safety standard since the ACD test is NOT considered to be a "normal operating" condition as previously stated.

The sad thing about the internet/forums is that no matter how many times I post, you re-post such informative articles, people would keep on telling the internet that such and such manufacturers (could be D,M,S (Sony), Y(Yamaha), O/I/P (Onkyo, Pioneer, Integra) power outputs are BS because the power consumptions are so low based on the back labels. Those people, who really don't have enough knowledge to spread such incorrect info but they do that all the time, you wonder why we have so much fake news, misconception, hearsay, oh yeah including the so called Marantz musical/warm sound (no offence, really, happy for you that you believe you heard that), I just feel like venting a little in case I am not alone of this lol........

So, again enjoy you really nice looking and so well build Cinema 40, one of these days I may even trade in my so called separates for the Cinema 30 when I am ready to downsize, by shedding weight and got rid the cabling spaghetti and multiple big and heavy boxes that I have to carefully vacuum a few times a year.

One box, plug into one 15 or 20 amp outlet is getting tempting by the day, as someone's getting older by the day.