Buchardt Anniversary 10 Measurements and Review

[norman bates]

Harmonic distortion is impressive 100hz - 400hz, but I'd expect no less with that woofer.

I'm sure it sounds like the cat's meow.


But true, at the end of the day, it is just a 6.5" 2-way...........................

Granted, an amazing 6.5" 2-way, if you get some felt around the tweeter horn to absorb edge diffractions anyway, lol.

 

[Momomo67890]

I’ve torture tested these drivers in small sealed until burning the voice coils. Nothing on the market in 5.25-6.5” can take even half the torture these voice coils can. If you want more low distortion SPL capability you use 6 of them like I did here:

View attachment 335735

Haha dude that's one very expensive speaker. The 142a is a absolute beast tested mine to 120db with a few percent of thd.

 

[Nuyes]

Yes that is what I meant, no NFs or anechoic at all in @Nuyes reviews.

As far as I can tell the Klippel unit that Erin is using to take the HD and IMD measurments is Quasi Anechoic. I have always understood that they are not anechoic (or rather calculated anechoic like the NFS) It is 100% possible I do not understand how the ISC unit is aquiring and handing HD data. Erin doesn't seem clear about this aspect in his videos (or on his webapge under 'test methods' which seems very out of date, but does talk about a nearfield measurement for HD IMD)


I don't think he is using the NFS for HD/IMD. But I am just not sure.
@VintageFlanker
here are the details for the ISC

In-Situ Compensation (ISC)

www.klippel.de

&
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.klippel.de/fileadmin/klippel/Bilder/Our_Products/R-D_System/PDF/S62_In_Situ_Room_Compensation.pdf

This all seems quasi anechoic and windowed to me. But maybe I am off base.

They also have the TRF module which is for HD and the frequency tesing with the KNFS. I can't make sens eof wether the HD is anechoic or not.

Transfer Function Measurement (TRF)

TRF module measures two signals simultaneously, and determines the linear transfer function and the harmonic distortion in the output signals.

www.klippel.de

And the MTON for multitone, doesn't seem anechoic either though, but again I am not certain
https://www.klippel.de/products/rd-system/modules/mton-multi-tone-measurement.html

I am not certain, but I wish I knew fo rcertain if he makes anechoic HD/IMD tests. Certainly Erin's measurements are very accurate no matter the case. I just want to know.

The main point I had was that even with REW and UMIK I have almost the same HD results as Amir and Erin using basic near field techniques. I don't think Nuyes HD results will that far off from others though I still agree it best to compare with only like tests by the same person and that modest to even heavy HD is not exactly that important in many cases.

EDIT. I did find this. The ISC is indeed appling quite a bit of very useful and Klippel advanced math filtering to the HD/IMD testing. Very cool!!!! Maybe not quite anechoic but super stuff. Okay so Erin's are def a cleaner HD test.
View attachment 335842

Equivalent Input Harmonic Distortion (EIHD) enables obtaining Harmonic Distortion (HD) data that is free from the influence of linear distortion caused by the measurement space (room). The challenge, however, is that it removes linear distortions from both the speaker and the microphone system, necessitating careful interpretation of the data.

As a result, you cannot observe the Low Frequency (LF) response below the speaker's resonance frequency (F0). Also, frequencies from the start of the woofer's breakup mode and above are not visible.

However, within this frequency range, it is possible to obtain a clean Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) completely free from the influence of the room. (This is also achievable with REW - Room EQ Wizard).

When I provide THD data, I include Characteristic Harmonic Distortion (CHD) calculated based on the average sound pressure between 100 Hz and 10 kHz, along with the previously described EIHD. It is impossible to accurately analyze HD using only the relative HD plot. Therefore, analysis from various angles, along with FR/SPL plots, is crucial.

 

[Multicore]

So, what does MUSIC sound like through such a speaker?

Define music.

 

[Momomo67890]

Edit: Ahh the Bliesma mid. Yes it’s killer. Got some of the Berylliums coming to use with the new 34D

View attachment 335853View attachment 335854

That seems like a incredibly expensive way to barely increase the performance of the speaker. But I would totally do it if I thought it was worth it

 

[Mnyb]

Because they don't.

A500 is recently discontinued and now replaced by the new A10.

A500 Signature Edition has always been a very limited run (two batches of 50 pairs worldwide, promptly sold out).
View attachment 335849

Why is the A700 sold out ?

Yes it’s the A500 or A700 that is interesting this A10 does not entirely replaces any of these in the lineup ? Does not compute for me.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

So, what does MUSIC sound like through such a speaker?

Distorted.
At least at the SPL I expect with the music I like.

 

[DonR]

Yeah, I know. I should have added, in hindsight, the "LOL" tag line to post to indicate my attempted apparently too dry of humor, incase someone missed the scarcesm.

I will along with Kim Jong Un leave the room.

 

[DSJR]

Define music.

Oh FFS........

 

[crappypanther]

A dream

 

[Spkrdctr]

So, what does MUSIC sound like through such a speaker?

Don't ask such a silly question! If the measurements look great it probably sounds great. (We hope!)

 

[DearSX]

Don't ask such a silly question! If the measurements look great it probably sounds great. (We hope!)

They sound very good to me. I am using them for gaming on my TV today about 5.5ft from me and 5.5ft apart in between my TV and I they sound very dynamic, sounds go from quiet to loud very nicely. They also have great imaging, I can hear the foot steps of my opponents and figure out where they are coming from. (using the near field tuning, no room correction yet)

Again you are limited by the 6.5" sealed woofer even though its one of the best, so I do wonder how much I'm not able to do with these sometimes. 90% of the time they are plenty, but that other 10%, maybe I can should try a large sub.

@Mads Buchardt please add a filter in the 35-40hz range so I can jam a little more and limit distortion more with most music.

 

[DearSX]

Have you tried different master tunings?

Yeah, I tried the main flat one, in room flat and near field. Room flat is very neutral like a KH120 or Revel kind of sound. Flat response mode is a more lively sound, not sure its a listen all day everyday kind of sound but its fun for a few hours, at least in my room. Near field seems to do pretty well for a little bit drama, imaging and fun but not too neutral or too bright, at least in my room. My room is asymmetrical so I like it when a speaker can image well.

I will try and measure with with my DSP mic and post later today when I get home.

 

[DearSX]

Is there a way to make your own custom tuning? Even with an in room F3 of 40-45hz you will get a nice full sound, yet low distortion SPL output will probably go up by 10dB.

Not that I now on the speaker itself, I can use my streamer's EQ option (WiiM Pro) or another external source. I may just do that.

 

[617]

They sound very good to me. I am using them for gaming on my TV today about 5.5ft from me and 5.5ft apart in between my TV and I they sound very dynamic, sounds go from quiet to loud very nicely. They also have great imaging, I can hear the foot steps of my opponents and figure out where they are coming from. (using the near field tuning, no room correction yet)

Again you are limited by the 6.5" sealed woofer even though its one of the best, so I do wonder how much I'm not able to do with these sometimes. 90% of the time they are plenty, but that other 10%, maybe I can should try a large sub.

@Mads Buchardt please add a filter in the 35-40hz range so I can jam a little more and limit distortion more with most music.

Gaming is an underrated use case for loudspeakers.

 

[DSJR]

Don't ask such a silly question! If the measurements look great it probably sounds great. (We hope!)

Not a silly question at all!!!

A UK designer of internationally popular speakers is currently working on some new actives with DSP (using a number of available 'poles' in the processor rather than just a handful as others apparently do - don't shoot the messenger here but I think that's right!). He and his team have got spectacularly flat on-axis responses, yet the earlier prototypes just didn't 'sound' as good despite nothing seemingly 'wrong' at the crossover point. The solution was to adjust the crossover frequency a little to prevent the tweeter being unhappy run too low in frequency and also to adjust level by a touch (good ears will notice this in the lower kHz region), this barely changing the measured response at all! Now, I expect 'you lot' would tell him to change the tweeter (I believe they've investigated a few different modern types) and others would nag him about the dispersion judging by Stereophile reviews of the passive range (no info forthcoming on that score, so draw your own conclusions), but subjective seamless driver integration (heard on-axis) is one of this brand's strongest points and used in free space as suggested, side wall reflections are minimised.

So no, a good Klippel-style test will - for me - only go 75% of the way there, but I'd like to hear them with music and speech sources too to confirm the objective side. What's the point otherwise - where loudspeakers are concerned? Digital sources are a done deal for me and I now firmly believe an amp is an amp is an amp as long as it has low modern distortion levels across the board, is working within it's 'power envelope' and the load presented to it isn't making it act like a graphic equaliser as so many valve amps seem to do.

 

[ROOSKIE]

#

Nice to know that DSP and active speakers have solved the sound diffraction problems of cabinet design or lack of any. .

***

Yeah, I know. I should have added, in hindsight, the "LOL" tag line to post to indicate my attempted apparently too dry of humor, incase someone missed the scarcesm.

I will along with Kim Jong Un leave the room.

I got your view. Just don't understand why there is a problem with solving problems with contemporary technology like DSP.(&waveguides)
It like complaining that DSP, computers and high tech advancements have solved the need to build a really robust rotary dial on a phone or to include a long chord in the package.
You miss morse code and the shared rural party line?
Actually I do miss the cordless phone that went all the way into neighbors yard and had caller ID built into the handset. F$&king dope. Loved it. Now as I write this on my 'phone' I really miss *69, good ole star-69. That was genius.

Happy Winter Solstice Northern Hemi.

 

[ctrl]

Again you are limited by the 6.5" sealed woofer even though its one of the best, so I do wonder how much I'm not able to do with these sometimes. 90% of the time they are plenty, but that other 10%, maybe I can should try a large sub.

@Mads Buchardt please add a filter in the 35-40hz range so I can jam a little more and limit distortion more with most music.

To answer this question (although you didn't actually ask , was curious about the answer myself), I have simulated different scenarios with a Purifi "extended" (means +-9.8mm linear excursion) 6.5'' woofer in a sealed 10L cabinet.

All SPL in the simulations refer to free field (4pi), include the baffle step and refer to a distance of 1m from the speaker - roughly speaking, for example, 90dB SPL corresponds to about 90dB stereo at a distance of 3m in a normal listening room.

The first example simulates the frequency response of the A10 measured by @Nuyes with an f6 of around 26Hz.
The first diagram shows an achievable SPL of around 88dB for maximum linear excursion - at higher sound pressure levels (possibly even earlier) the limiter is likely to intervene. The brown curve shows the frequency response of the simulated A10):


The second diagram shows the maximum possible SPL of the A10 without limiter of around 91dB (before the woofer might be damaged). The brown curve shows the frequency response of the simulated A10:


If a high-pass target filter with LR4@40Hz (see orange curve) is used, then around 98dB SPL would be possible without a limiter (before the woofer might be damaged). The brown curve shows the frequency response of the simulated A10:


If a setting for a subwoofer with an LR4@80Hz high-pass filter were offered (see orange curve), a continuous load of around 107dB SPL would be possible from a purely mechanical point of view. The brown curve shows the frequency response of the simulated A10:

This means that in this case only the short and long-term thermal load capacity of the drivers and the amplifier power of the A10 limit the possible SPL.

 

[biglebowski]

Is there a way to make your own custom tuning? Even with an in room F3 of 40-45hz you will get a nice full sound, yet low distortion SPL output will probably go up by 10dB.

You cannot create a Master Tuning to load in the speakers (which would change the sound signature of the speaker whatever input you are using), but if you use the speakers on their WiSA input, with the Stereo Hub from Platin, you can set up EQs in the companion app of the hub, that would be stored in the hub and be applied to the WiSA signal sent to the speakers. This feature is also going to be available on the next generation of the Primare SC15 WiSA preamp.

 

[DearSX]

To answer this question (although you didn't actually ask , was curious about the answer myself), I have simulated different scenarios with a Purifi "extended" (means +-9.8mm linear excursion) 6.5'' woofer in a sealed 10L cabinet.

All SPL in the simulations refer to free field (4pi), include the baffle step and refer to a distance of 1m from the speaker - roughly speaking, for example, 90dB SPL corresponds to about 90dB stereo at a distance of 3m in a normal listening room.

The first example simulates the frequency response of the A10 measured by @Nuyes with an f6 of around 26Hz.
The first diagram shows an achievable SPL of around 88dB for maximum linear excursion - at higher sound pressure levels (possibly even earlier) the limiter is likely to intervene. The brown curve shows the frequency response of the simulated A10):
View attachment 336220

The second diagram shows the maximum possible SPL of the A10 without limiter of around 91dB (before the woofer might be damaged). The brown curve shows the frequency response of the simulated A10:
View attachment 336221

If a high-pass target filter with LR4@40Hz (see orange curve) is used, then around 98dB SPL would be possible without a limiter (before the woofer might be damaged). The brown curve shows the frequency response of the simulated A10:
View attachment 336222

If a setting for a subwoofer with an LR4@80Hz high-pass filter were offered (see orange curve), a continuous load of around 107dB SPL would be possible from a purely mechanical point of view. The brown curve shows the frequency response of the simulated A10:
View attachment 336225
This means that in this case only the short and long-term thermal load capacity of the drivers and the amplifier power of the A10 limit the possible SPL.

Nice! Thanks!