After the x3600h review I was hoping the 2020 models would have similar results as the disconnected front channels, especially in pre-amp mode. Oh well, hopes dashed.
Thank you for testing preamp mode too.
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Denon AVR-X4700H 2020 AVR Review
- Thread starter amirm
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Thank you for testing preamp mode too.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #62
To be clear, the amp assign for Front Left and Right did make an improvement. Just not as much as it did on 3600H. This mode of shutting everything off is redundant for 2-channel mode and hence the reason it didn't make a difference. I had already assigned out the front left and right.
Verdinut
Member
@amirm
It's surprising that you haven't had the opportunity to recently test any of the cousin Marantz AVRs. It would be interesting to know how equivalent SR series AVRs would compare for SINAD and DAC performance etc to both the Denon AVR-X3600H and the X4700H units. Let's hope someone will be willing to eventually send them to you.
It's surprising that you haven't had the opportunity to recently test any of the cousin Marantz AVRs. It would be interesting to know how equivalent SR series AVRs would compare for SINAD and DAC performance etc to both the Denon AVR-X3600H and the X4700H units. Let's hope someone will be willing to eventually send them to you.
Surely I can't be alone in wishing for a simple 5.1 or 5.2 AVR with fewer stickers on front that actually performs well.
Until then it's pretty clear that the best approach is a good 2 ch system with an AVR on hand simply to be pressed in to service when absolutely necessary.
Until then it's pretty clear that the best approach is a good 2 ch system with an AVR on hand simply to be pressed in to service when absolutely necessary.
I think someone already has a 6014 on the way....
OP
- Thread Starter
- #66
An SR6014 is coming for testing.
In addition to the disappointing comparison to the x3600h, but also the x3500h. With amps connected, and running at 1.4V output it has a SINAD of 97. This is a pretty big step backwards when even the 3500H outperforms it by such a wide margin. Anything over 1.4v it of course starts to fall apart but it is still quite good under 1.4v.
Edit: Double check the X3500h review and it is basically at 96 SINDAD @ 1.2V and Amir said goes crazy after 1.5V (master volume 80).
Edit: Double check the X3500h review and it is basically at 96 SINDAD @ 1.2V and Amir said goes crazy after 1.5V (master volume 80).
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rvsixer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
All I can say is p_uck.
After missing out on the 3600, I had such high hopes for the x700 series. I will now have to continue on the path of a co-located music/HT system (shared main speakers/subs/amps, otherwise both systems completely separated from one another via switching).
Only way I have found to have high SINAD/quality 2.x channel music, and decent enough and yes even enjoyable movie audio. Works because I can't stand poor 2-channel listening via AVR, but with movies the visual takes over completely for me and otherwise mediocre AVR audio measures are simply not an issue with surround movies (...my experience anyway ymmv).
After missing out on the 3600, I had such high hopes for the x700 series. I will now have to continue on the path of a co-located music/HT system (shared main speakers/subs/amps, otherwise both systems completely separated from one another via switching).
Only way I have found to have high SINAD/quality 2.x channel music, and decent enough and yes even enjoyable movie audio. Works because I can't stand poor 2-channel listening via AVR, but with movies the visual takes over completely for me and otherwise mediocre AVR audio measures are simply not an issue with surround movies (...my experience anyway ymmv).
rvsixer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
...and a big thanks to 4700 donor and Amir for making the true reveal possible.
Wow, this is what I was afraid of. Now I wonder if the 3700 will also suffer the same degradation, relative to the 3600, that the 4700 demonstrates. I guess the 3600 will now be even harder to find than before. Who will be a brave enough soul to buy a 3700 and send it to Amirm?!
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Because you're tired of seeing SOTA Hypex designs?
Is there any reason these manufacturers are sticking with Class A/B with such space constraints? We're talking about 7-9 channels here, there's no reason for big xformers, etc. if you can slide in a stack of class D cards and get better performance. Of course, the DAC sections have been subpar as well, so I suppose the extra room would allow a better implementation there.
So, what performance tells a multichannel guy that he's getting something worthwhile? What's the measurement from channel to channel, to ensure that the spaceship flying by is definitely being heard as it was intended?
I'm not being snarky BTW, I'm truly curious if there's a time delay measurement, or other quality, that someone is doing from channel to channel that could be verified/maximized, etc. Perhaps that's the realm Amir could dive into, since we know that SOTA performance isn't generally coming out of AVR's from a pure audio/music reproduction experience.
Let me fix the review “If the Denon AVR-X4700H had Dirac, all would be forgiven and it would be highly recommended.”
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I am wondering is disconnecting the amp for the center channel that important? Doesnt this AVR have enough power capability for most modern efficient center speakers? Isnt this AVR aimed at the HT in a box market?
I appreciate the SINAD is worse on the pre-outs with the front L and R amps "connected".
Amir, can I ask would this AVR have trouble handling your Revel center speaker?
I appreciate the SINAD is worse on the pre-outs with the front L and R amps "connected".
Amir, can I ask would this AVR have trouble handling your Revel center speaker?
Because you're tired of seeing SOTA Hypex designs?
That is really kind of it, yeah:
1) Because AVRs have issues, and so we're still trying to find some that are consistently good in every area, so their reviews are more interesting. "Yes, this is the 1000th DAC that is audibly transparent." is not interesting. We already know you can choose from hundreds of basic DACs that work great.
2) What good is a basic DAC, anyways? Solutions without room correction are boring/inferior, I would never listen to any system without it. And your 120 SINAD DAC does nothing if you put a 78 SINAD minidsp behind it. So for example I'd consider the miniDSP SHD to be better than anything with slightly better SINAD but without correction or at the very least PEQ. Yes, using a PC as a source with digital EQ and room correction is another way to go.
3) I enjoy surround music/Auro3D upmixing and I'm not going to build two completely separate signal chains for stereo and surround.
4) AVRs have tons of other useful functionality that people would like to use if it didn't involve serious compromises.
@amirm, For completeness, can you listen to the X4700h on your own setup for some subjective thoughts?
https://translate.googleusercontent...0.html&usg=ALkJrhif2PXR13wKMDtqjPiROlf8VR5P1g
it seems like there is new head at Denon who is very subjective. Their flagship Japan only amp claims to be “vivid and spacious” which suggests to me that accuracy may no longer be their goal.
Is there any pattern to the harmonic distortions or phase of those distortions?
https://translate.googleusercontent...0.html&usg=ALkJrhif2PXR13wKMDtqjPiROlf8VR5P1g
it seems like there is new head at Denon who is very subjective. Their flagship Japan only amp claims to be “vivid and spacious” which suggests to me that accuracy may no longer be their goal.
Is there any pattern to the harmonic distortions or phase of those distortions?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #77
I have already brought the unit down to pack and ship. My back is killing me and I can't lift heavy things back and forth anymore (had to get my wife to carry it down). I don't know that I can add a ton of value with listening test anyway given the effort.
Your back health is the most important thing. Even in 2020, spine surgery is still an art not a science and the reason people worry about back pain is that a surgeon can do what seems to be a technically flawless surgery and yet the patient may not get better.
Just grabbing at straws since it seemed as if Denon was about to usher in a new era of performance... I am sure the US ownership at Sound United will be displeased.
WonderBoy
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ie, it's a receiver, JOATMON, a noise box
Yep. I tested it (have a X4500h) with a Sennheiser HD650. The output level is way too low and it is lacking bass. My cheap desktop headphone amp plays a lot louder.
BTW, the Denon rep @ some audioholics interview said that the AVR will switch eco mode on automatically when the amps are disconnected. So they are not not completely shut down.
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