Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[Zooqu1ko]

In contacting me Trinnov expressed that they had made an optimization to the DAC that resulted in better measured performance but not audibly. For this reason, they have not promoted this change. They plan to make a more substantial revision of the DAC to come out later that they will offer as upgrade to current customers. They have asked me if I would participate in testing that and of course I said yes.

Did you actually participate in testing the ESS based DACs, and do you have measurements, and are you allowed to share them?

 

[TonyJZX]

i had a double take at the PC backplane there

from inside pics you can see it runs a commodity MSI motherboard

i am reminded of a $100k HP oscilloscope that also ran commodity {PC motherboard, a HP this time oddly enough

 

[sarumbear]

i had a double take at the PC backplane there

from inside pics you can see it runs a commodity MSI motherboard

Which one is the Intel CPU?

 

[Zooqu1ko]

i had a double take at the PC backplane there

from inside pics you can see it runs a commodity MSI motherboard

A screenshot of a ~ 2 year old Altitude 16 was posted in https://www.avsforum.com/threads/trinnov-altitude.1516103/page-1194#post-62493017
That one has an MSI H310 mainboard, newer ones apparently use H410 mainboards, older ones apparently H110 and H210.

Which one is the Intel CPU?

Under the CPU fan in the bottom left corner.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Which one is the Intel CPU?

It’s on the black motherboard, mostly obscured by a large fan.

 

[CINERAMAX]

Are all pass filters now supported on the Altitude, or will they?

 

[Hayabusa]

Are all pass filters now supported on the Altitude, or will they?

why would you need them? you have time delay per speaker and fine adjustment by the room correction.

 

[hmt]

Delay is not the same as an all pass.

 

[CINERAMAX]

Time/Phase Alignment, Acoustic Center, Lobing etc.

What is up and down?

purifi-audio.com

To build some Purifi Home Cinema Speakers and control the center channel lobing better.

PURIFI 36 CH LAKEFRONT WAVEFORMING WALLSCREEN LOUNGE OF THE FUTURE — IMMERSIVE WALLSCREEN CINEMAS BY THE INVENTOR OF THE VENUE CATEGORY

wallscreen-skylounges.com

 

[Krillin]

I find it quite disheartening that a product as sophisticated as the Trinnov Altitude 32 is accessible only to those with substantial financial means, given its cost is comparable to a Toyota SUV.

While I understand that this processor incorporates an Intel CPU, a standard motherboard, and a specialized microphone, I fail to grasp why these components present a barrier to broader licensing, akin to Dirac's room correction technology employed by Monoprice, Denon, and Storm Audio, or Lyngdorf's licensing of Room Perfect with McIntosh.

It is perplexing why Trinnov does not pursue a strategy of mass marketing for their product. The use of an eight-year-old Intel processor or an economical motherboard should not pose significant hurdles for a company like Denon. Modern DACs' quality are so high that their modularity becomes a secondary concern, provided they are built for reliability. The only exception might be the HDMI board, which could be designed to meet Trinnov's specifications to accommodate the evolving TV market. Furthermore, while the microphone is costly, its price could decrease with mass production.

I recognize the reasons for the high demand for such a product; it is immensely powerful, unique, and its crossover functionality is exceptionally beneficial for speaker building in niche markets.

However, when considering its price - equivalent to a brand new Toyota - one must question the profitability of such a market at this price point. Wouldn't competing with Dirac and Audyssey XT32 in a broader market, potentially achieving higher sales volumes, be a more lucrative strategy?

 

[Zooqu1ko]

It is perplexing why Trinnov does not pursue a strategy of mass marketing for their product. The use of an eight-year-old Intel processor or an economical motherboard should not pose significant hurdles for a company like Denon.

[...]
They are ahead of you - Trinnov apparently regularly updates the mainboard and CPU used in their Altitudes.

They did license their technology to Sherwood Newcastle, but apparently the R972 was the only consumer device that resulted from that. I have no idea how good, usable or successful it was. I assume the ADA TEQ-12 was built by Trinnov, so it probably doesn't count.

However, when considering its price - equivalent to a brand new Toyota - one must question the profitability of such a market at this price point. Wouldn't competing with Dirac and Audyssey XT32 in a broader market, potentially achieving higher sales volumes, be a more lucrative strategy?

It would eat into their profits from the pro market. Also, a significant chunk of the purchase price goes into support, both from the dealer and by Trinnov themselves, given the complexity of the product and its integration with other home theater gear.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I find it quite disheartening that a product as sophisticated as the Trinnov Altitude 32 is accessible only to those with substantial financial means, given its cost is comparable to a Toyota SUV.

While I understand that this processor incorporates an Intel CPU, a standard motherboard, and a specialized microphone, I fail to grasp why these components present a barrier to broader licensing, akin to Dirac's room correction technology employed by Monoprice, Denon, and Storm Audio, or Lyngdorf's licensing of Room Perfect with McIntosh.

It is perplexing why Trinnov does not pursue a strategy of mass marketing for their product. The use of an eight-year-old Intel processor or an economical motherboard should not pose significant hurdles for a company like Denon. Modern DACs' quality are so high that their modularity becomes a secondary concern, provided they are built for reliability. The only exception might be the HDMI board, which could be designed to meet Trinnov's specifications to accommodate the evolving TV market. Furthermore, while the microphone is costly, its price could decrease with mass production.

I recognize the reasons for the high demand for such a product; it is immensely powerful, unique, and its crossover functionality is exceptionally beneficial for speaker building in niche markets.

However, when considering its price - equivalent to a brand new Toyota - one must question the profitability of such a market at this price point. Wouldn't competing with Dirac and Audyssey XT32 in a broader market, potentially achieving higher sales volumes, be a more lucrative strategy?

And I thought $300 for GLM was a lot lol

 

[Zooqu1ko]

And I thought $300 for GLM was a lot lol

Plus the ~$300 per channel for the upgrade to the DSP-equipped speakers (e.g. 8040 vs. 8340). That's still not Trinnov money, but does add up. GLM was kind of overstrained to fix the location/room issues with my 8240s, Dirac worked splendidly, and I haven't checked the Altitude.

Edit: Trinnov charges about $500 per additional channel, so they aren't totally out of line.

 

[GXAlan]

[...]
They are ahead of you - Trinnov apparently regularly updates the mainboard and CPU used in their Altitudes.

They did license their technology to Sherwood Newcastle, but apparently the R972 was the only consumer device that resulted from that. I have no idea how good, usable or successful it was. I assume the ADA TEQ-12 was built by Trinnov, so it probably doesn't count.

The Sherwood was spectacular and really did a great job. It had fewer filter resolution and decimated to 48 kHz but worked great. This was all done with the internal CPU so it was very slow to calculate and tweaking the target curve required updating firmware. 3D remapping worked great and it used the same 4 channel microphone that used the Ethernet cable for power.

The problem is that the HDMI board universally fails over time, presumably due to heat even though it doesn’t seem to run that hot.

——

@Krillin, I agree it is frustrating and I also wish it was cheaper. On the other hand, just as is the case with owning a Tiffany diamond or Ferrari, volume is not the only way to make profit. If they cut the price and in half, and sell twice as many units, it’s still a net loss because you need more warehouse space, hire new people, and deal with potentially more customer service issues. Also, your cost of goods just doubled even though your revenue is the same. So if you half the price, you probably need to increase your volume 3x for it to be a good business strategy. If Trinnov is profitable right now, it doesn’t make sense to take on extra risk while the economy is doing the way it is.

In a way, Yamaha and Sony have been able to take parts of Trinnov’s 3D remapping and develop it themselves. Dirac/Audyssey have good frequency response correction and you have things like PC-based option. So the burden is on everyone else. Until someone can challenge Trinnov on performance, they don’t need to drop their price and in fact, they have increased their price to keep up with inflation.

 

[Impossible]

I find it quite disheartening that a product as sophisticated as the Trinnov Altitude 32 is accessible only to those with substantial financial means, given its cost is comparable to a Toyota SUV.

While I understand that this processor incorporates an Intel CPU, a standard motherboard, and a specialized microphone, I fail to grasp why these components present a barrier to broader licensing, akin to Dirac's room correction technology employed by Monoprice, Denon, and Storm Audio, or Lyngdorf's licensing of Room Perfect with McIntosh.

It is perplexing why Trinnov does not pursue a strategy of mass marketing for their product. The use of an eight-year-old Intel processor or an economical motherboard should not pose significant hurdles for a company like Denon. Modern DACs' quality are so high that their modularity becomes a secondary concern, provided they are built for reliability. The only exception might be the HDMI board, which could be designed to meet Trinnov's specifications to accommodate the evolving TV market. Furthermore, while the microphone is costly, its price could decrease with mass production.

I recognize the reasons for the high demand for such a product; it is immensely powerful, unique, and its crossover functionality is exceptionally beneficial for speaker building in niche markets.

However, when considering its price - equivalent to a brand new Toyota - one must question the profitability of such a market at this price point. Wouldn't competing with Dirac and Audyssey XT32 in a broader market, potentially achieving higher sales volumes, be a more lucrative strategy?

It's like saying why is iphone so expensive when other phones are cheaper, they could license their software out. Also a trinnov altitude 16 is similar price to a lyngdorf mp60 or a stormaudio elite with 16 channels.
JBL use trinnov but as its so expensive doing R&D making their own they just re-box it and stick a JBL logo on it.

The processor is not 8 years old, they update it, they just updated it in this last year, including the dac.

have you also considered its price compared to a banana? some people find Toyota expensive and instead buy a moped or take the bus. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

Also i think they are making a cheaper ARM based receiver.

 

[hmt]

I find it quite disheartening that a product as sophisticated as the Trinnov Altitude 32 is accessible only to those with substantial financial means, given its cost is comparable to a Toyota SUV.

While I understand that this processor incorporates an Intel CPU, a standard motherboard, and a specialized microphone, I fail to grasp why these components present a barrier to broader licensing, akin to Dirac's room correction technology employed by Monoprice, Denon, and Storm Audio, or Lyngdorf's licensing of Room Perfect with McIntosh.

It is perplexing why Trinnov does not pursue a strategy of mass marketing for their product. The use of an eight-year-old Intel processor or an economical motherboard should not pose significant hurdles for a company like Denon. Modern DACs' quality are so high that their modularity becomes a secondary concern, provided they are built for reliability. The only exception might be the HDMI board, which could be designed to meet Trinnov's specifications to accommodate the evolving TV market. Furthermore, while the microphone is costly, its price could decrease with mass production.

I recognize the reasons for the high demand for such a product; it is immensely powerful, unique, and its crossover functionality is exceptionally beneficial for speaker building in niche markets.

However, when considering its price - equivalent to a brand new Toyota - one must question the profitability of such a market at this price point. Wouldn't competing with Dirac and Audyssey XT32 in a broader market, potentially achieving higher sales volumes, be a more lucrative strategy?

I guess Trinnov know what hey are doing. Their USP is their PC based platform and their own RC software. The CPUs might be outdated but they are still much more powerful than some SHARC chips. The ones used in the Storm or HTP-1 are btw even older and dating back to 2011-14ish. Furthermore they offer top notch service. They are available to help and log in to your device even on weekends. You get updates since 2015. No one besides Storm Audio is doing that. You just have to remember all the FW issues the HTP-1 had and the Arcam devices still have. With D&M you have to pay around $7000 for their 16Ch PrePro. Still you wont get any updates after maybe 2 years and have to beg for dirac ART. In the end it is also a case of decreasing returns. The better you want a product to be the more exponentially the costs rise. That's the case with every hobby. In case of the Trinnov you still get value, that's npt the case with some fancy cables or expensive speakers that measure horribly.

 

[Impossible]

The market is small guys. most people might never buy a receiver. More people will buy a sound bar at most. from the people who do buy a receiver most of them are not buying a new one every year, maybe 3 to 6 years.

So not sure where mass market came from as its not. Its an enthusiast niche market.

 

[Descartes]

I find it quite disheartening that a product as sophisticated as the Trinnov Altitude 32 is accessible only to those with substantial financial means, given its cost is comparable to a Toyota SUV.

While I understand that this processor incorporates an Intel CPU, a standard motherboard, and a specialized microphone, I fail to grasp why these components present a barrier to broader licensing, akin to Dirac's room correction technology employed by Monoprice, Denon, and Storm Audio, or Lyngdorf's licensing of Room Perfect with McIntosh.

It is perplexing why Trinnov does not pursue a strategy of mass marketing for their product. The use of an eight-year-old Intel processor or an economical motherboard should not pose significant hurdles for a company like Denon. Modern DACs' quality are so high that their modularity becomes a secondary concern, provided they are built for reliability. The only exception might be the HDMI board, which could be designed to meet Trinnov's specifications to accommodate the evolving TV market. Furthermore, while the microphone is costly, its price could decrease with mass production.

I recognize the reasons for the high demand for such a product; it is immensely powerful, unique, and its crossover functionality is exceptionally beneficial for speaker building in niche markets.

However, when considering its price - equivalent to a brand new Toyota - one must question the profitability of such a market at this price point. Wouldn't competing with Dirac and Audyssey XT32 in a broader market, potentially achieving higher sales volumes, be a more lucrative strategy?

They take the LVMH strategy it is Made in France so you pay 99 % more! Ha ha!

 

[hmt]

The PC platform is to expensive and overpowered for a midrange product. They would maybe compete with higher end Prepros like the AV10, Arcam or some Anthem stuff. That market is small and has many competitors. Plus they would need to cater an endless number of features like steaming services, airplay and stuff this kind of costumer wants. I can understand that they do not want to put resources on that kind of feature battle and stick to audio related stuff. They offer some downscaled version but it is aimed at the pro audio market (as they dont need airplay and stuff).

 

[onslash]

I just got the acurus muse + aspeqt