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How to get the best room correction. Trinnov?

I understand why negative gain EQ needs more amplification, but why would it put more stress on speakers?
Where do the power from the "more amplification" go? It goes to the speakers, and therefore they are more stressed.

It is just that those extra power that goes to the speakers (to boost the amount of sound energy radiated from the speakers) is to compensate for the loss in the sound pressure that the listener experiences due to room mode dips/cancellations.
 
Where do the power from the "more amplification" go? It goes to the speakers, and therefore they are more stressed.

It is just that those extra power that goes to the speakers (to boost the amount of sound energy radiated from the speakers) is to compensate for the loss in the sound pressure that the listener experiences due to room mode dips/cancellations.
Lets say you measure a narrow in-room peak at 200hz and you pull it down with -6db EQ. If you don’t change the volume knob, the speaker will be doing slightly less.

Alternatively, let’s say you apply -6db across the full range. If you adjust the volume to match what it was before EQ, the speakers be doing exactly the same thing.

I thought the need for more power when using EQ cuts was essentially because you need more headroom to turn up the volume control post-EQ, not because it used more power as-such.

But maybe I’m thinking about it wrong? Maybe it depends on how many and how broad the cuts are?
 
Where do the power from the "more amplification" go? It goes to the speakers, and therefore they are more stressed.

It is just that those extra power that goes to the speakers (to boost the amount of sound energy radiated from the speakers) is to compensate for the loss in the sound pressure that the listener experiences due to room mode dips/cancellations.

The other good thing about the Trinnov setup is that it also knows how loud you can get.

It still makes assumptions about the linearity of your setup and lack of compression, but it adds boost when it knows that you can add boost. You also have control over how much boost is allowed.

You can see here, I had the problem Amir mentioned. It had some trouble detecting my left surround. There’s a window sill and giant incline treadmill there.

During calibration, you set the volume in dBFS to hit about 80 dB. The mic is calibrated to SPL.

You can see the A and C weighted SPL. Here you see that my heights (Meyer Sound MM-4XP hit 100 dB at my listening position which are 3.7 meters away for the front heights). My LCR, the Meyer Sound Amie’s hit 104 dB.

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My subwoofers, hit 123 and 120 dB. Note that the distance is also dependent on the DSP delay.

You can then see the COMPENSATED level two rows below.

Here, you see the MM-4XP’s getting boosted to 104 dB. This is a bit of an assumption. The Trinnov only knows for sure that I can hit 100 dB (pre) but it also knows that my dBFS was in the -30’s. It does the boost based upon what I tell it to do in the configuration. I can also tell it how aggressive I want the correction in terms of resolution (like 1/3 octave, etc.).

I showed the depth of some of the advanced settings in my Alt32 post.

You can see that the compensated level of my subwoofers drops.

That number is telling you how my bass management will handle from 10 Hz to 20 kHz. Since my surrounds only go to 80 Hz or so (my subwoofer is covering everything below). Since my target curve is 100% flat in this demo, the subwoofer maintains its 102 dB extension.

With LFE, I get the full possibilities of 120 dB.

There are also some interesting things to do. While my surrounds hit 80 Hz, my height speakers need a much higher crossover point.

Since this makes some localization possible, the Trinnov lets me use all my subs for LFE but use my sub on the left side for my left height speakers and my sub on the right side for my right height speakers. This reduces localization.

I have borrowed subs to try out Waveforming and I believe you can still have the bass management configured with that positional bass, while still utilizing the double bass array style.

My room is really poor acoustically. This is more demanding on the roomEQ DSP. It’s narrow.
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If you look at the final result, where I have it correct to 1/3 resolution and have the +/- 40 dB y axis it looks great.

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But if you had a 40 dB spread on the Y-axis, this is what you see.
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I have asked the Trinnov to correct only to 1/3 octave. But what if I ask it to show the measurements with only 1/24 smoothing?
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Looks worse. BUT I can also ask Trinnov to correct to 1/24 and display 1/24
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You can run into pre-ringing if you go crazy with correcting the frequency response, but you can adjust the FIR length (more correction and more pre ringing), and all sorts of things.

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You might run into CPU issues if you are running 48+ channels with active crossovers, etc. The default configuration is good but conservative.

This kind of power is what makes Trinnov have the potential to deliver superior sound to other DSPs.

With full analog room treatment and perfect speaker location, all the extra processing is less necessary.
 
Some folks may recognize me as the newbie that started the poll on the Law of Diminishing Returns, and realize I have changed my mind on topics numerous times in the last month, but here's my latest topic of interest.

For those that haven't read any of my recent posts let me offer a quick recap. First, I came here because I had a Klipsch home theater that I wanted to improve. Folks here recommended using REW with a UMIK-1 as a starting point, but I quickly decided just to upgrade my speakers, and was truly blown away by the difference in sound. In a matter of weeks I went from Klipsch RP-280Fs to Revel F36s to Revel F226Be's. I also learned how to use REW and started taking in room measurements. I currently have a Sony STR AZ7000ES and am using the Sony 360 SSM room correction with which I am quite impressed as regards movie watching. My system is a 5.2.4 with Revel F226Be towers, Revel M16 surrounds, SVS Prime Elevations heights, Ascend Acoustics center channel, dual SVS SB-1000 subs, 3 OutLaw 2200 monoblocks for the towers and center channels, and, of course, my STR AZ7000ES AVR.

But . . .

I'm very fortunate that I can spend a few dollars to experiment and not be concerned about the money. REW readings are showing me that there is considerable room for improvement in room correction and just now I found this picture online which has peaked my interest in trying a Trinnov Altitude16 mostly because I have no means of improving room correction with my current AVR or at least I do not know how I can apply room correction with what I currently have.

Questions:

1) If my goal is to get the best room correction currently available would a Trinnov Altitude 16 combined with Outlaw amps (1 x Outlaw 5000X + 4 x Outlaw 2200 monoblocks) work?
2) Are there important considerations of which I am unaware?


Here's the forum post that got me pointed towards using a Trinnov for the ultimate in room correction.

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There are 2 sides of Trinnov experience - high performant AVP, that is probably the most versatile, adjustable with lot of unique meaningful features. The other one is complexity of setup and knowledge needed to get the best out of the gear. It is for sure not your Denon/Yamaha type of experience, when calibrating your Trinnov.

It is product aimed at Custom Install market, where you expect to get it installed and calibrated by somebody else, or go through very steep learning curve yourself. Of course it has automated mode and all kind of “Wizards” to help you, but you would be leaving lot of potential performance. So what you usually hear in Trinnov setups, is not the processor per se, but lot of knowledge to set it up properly and ability to tailor it to your room and you tastes. Also part of the package is customer service second to none in audio - you can reasonably expect to get your issues being taken care of during the weekends, with Trinnov connecting remotely to your unit. On top, you get regular functionality upgrades [and really meaningful ones] for free.

No idea if ti answers your question.

But just a gut feeling - if you are willing to invest around 40-50k into your HT improvement, than putting 15k into Trinnov is the sensible option, e.g. going from 65 inc TV to 85 inch or adding really high performant subs, buying matching center channel speaker etc etc. Buying Trinnov only does not make sense and would be overkill and you will be better served by AVP from Marantz/Anthem etc.

And as a side note - there are much better places to get advice re HT stuff, than ASR.
 
There are 2 sides of Trinnov experience - high performant AVP, that is probably the most versatile, adjustable with lot of unique meaningful features. The other one is complexity of setup and knowledge needed to get the best out of the gear. It is for sure not your Denon/Yamaha type of experience, when calibrating your Trinnov.

It is product aimed at Custom Install market, where you expect to get it installed and calibrated by somebody else, or go through very steep learning curve yourself. Of course it has automated mode and all kind of “Wizards” to help you, but you would be leaving lot of potential performance. So what you usually hear in Trinnov setups, is not the processor per se, but lot of knowledge to set it up properly and ability to tailor it to your room and you tastes. Also part of the package is customer service second to none in audio - you can reasonably expect to get your issues being taken care of during the weekends, with Trinnov connecting remotely to your unit. On top, you get regular functionality upgrades [and really meaningful ones] for free.

No idea if ti answers your question.

But just a gut feeling - if you are willing to invest around 40-50k into your HT improvement, than putting 15k into Trinnov is the sensible option, e.g. going from 65 inc TV to 85 inch or adding really high performant subs, buying matching center channel speaker etc etc. Buying Trinnov only does not make sense and would be overkill and you will be better served by AVP from Marantz/Anthem etc.

And as a side note - there are much better places to get advice re HT stuff, than ASR.
Thank you for the thoughtful and insightful response, much appreciated and point well taken. I'm not trying to garner sympathy here but rather just trying to best explain my intent relative to your comment with which I wholeheartdly agree.

The fact of the matter is this entire endeavor of playing with my home theater and REW readings is simply entertainment for me as I am at the moment mostly housebound because of cancer caused issues that force me to stay close to a bathroom at all times. (Nice thought right?!?) Anyways, point is I'm not really trying to create the bestest home theater in the world setup by pros, but rather just trying to find ways for me to spend time experimenting with what I have. So far I have learned that my choice of speakers makes a HUGE difference (see Mind Blown), using dual subs also makes a big difference, and using REW to help optimize speaker and sub positions also makes a big difference.

What brought me to this issue is that now I'm using REW so I can see that I have serious room issues that are likely impacting various sounds and emphasizing say cymbals while downplaying kick drums and I want to see if room correction tools can help here. I have run the auto calibration on my Sony STR AZ7000ES and am very impressed with Sony's 360 Spatial Sound Mapping and it's impact on my setup, but now I'm most curious to find out if other room correction tools can improve on Sony's 360 SSM in a way that I can hear. Most importantly is to find tools that I can learn to use and play with because for me right now the learning and trying is where the majority of entertainment is coming. I find your comment regarding where Trinnov is aimed at custom installs to be most apropos and pushes me more in the direction of Amir's mention of Anthem products as being a great compromise so thanks again!
:)
 
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Most importantly is to find tools that I can learn to use and play with because for me right now the learning and trying is where the majority of entertainment is coming. I find your comment regarding where Trinnov is aimed at custom installs to be most apropos and pushes me more in the direction of Amir's mention of Anthem products as being a great compromise so thanks again!
:)
I am sorry to hear about your cancer.

I would actually suggest going with a used Monolith HTP-1 which can be as cheap as $2000, and easily found at $2500. The UMIK-1/2 to go with it is pricier now due to tariffs.

It has community developed features like BassEQ where hobbyists provide subsonic EQs to “restore” missing bass (that might be found on a Blu-ray but not 4K BluRay/Streaming release).

It has PEQ which you can apply before or after Dirac.

It has Dirac so you can play with measurement locations, or Dirac Live Bass Control and identify crossovers to a single Hz.

On the other hand, Trinnov has seemingly unlimited power and control, which is either daunting or the-best-thing-ever, like being on a reality show where you run to grab your supplies.

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If you just want to order from a menu or buy a toy, those images look like work not fun. If you like building LEGOs or cooking, well that’s why the contestants always react with amazement and joy in the first episode of the competition.

You can watch the YouTube Trinnov guide to the calibration wizard. It’s not that hard. The wizard gets you to a place as good or better than Dirac with even a single point measurement.


All of the extra power and tweaking is to go to the “next level” of performance.
 
What are people's thoughts regarding an Emotiva RMC-1+? I realize that the earlier version had numerous problems, but assuming for a moment that they have fixed the obvious issues the fact that the RMC-1+ lets you use REW to make corrections seems to me to be the ultimate best answer possible.

Emotiva RMC-1+

Powerful Manual Room Correction
For those who prefer to do their own room adjustments, the RMC-1+ provides powerful manual
parametric equalization controls. The RMC-1+ allows you to create two entirely independent
EQ presets; each preset includes 11 fully adjustable bands of parametric equalization for each
speaker. You can then independently configure each input to use either of the manual speaker
presets or the results of the automatic room correction.

Integration With Room EQ Wizard (REW)
Room EQ Wizard is a very popular free software program that allows you to perform many
different measurements on your audio system, analyze the results, produce a wide variety of
reports and graphs, and calculate correction parameters for use with a parametric equalizer.
Correction filter settings generated by REW can be imported into the RMC-1+, and filter settings
from the RMC-1+ can be exported directly to REW. Parametric equalizer filter settings on the
RMC-1+ are imported and exported using a standard XML file format, which allows them to be
exchanged with REW, or exported for manual editing and then re-imported, or saved for later
analysis and use.
 
What are people's thoughts regarding an Emotiva RMC-1+? I realize that the earlier version had numerous problems, but assuming for a moment that they have fixed the obvious issues the fact that the RMC-1+ lets you use REW to make corrections seems to me to be the ultimate best answer possible.

Audyssey MultEQ-X also lets you directly import REW filters if that’s what you like. That’s a lower cost of entry, and has higher reliability.

“Ultimate best answer” can mean a lot of things, and even with big budgets, you don’t want to spend big budgets everywhere in life.

The only “challenge” is that if you really like the Sony’s 360SS, there’s a chance all these fancy processors are worse.

You can have a ruler flat mono speaker, or a pretty good not ruler flat 5.2 system. Frequency response irregularities get masked in stereo, so you can imagine it’s masked even more in multichannel. AND you have Revel speakers which are designed to be pretty neutral without any DSP.
 
Audyssey MultEQ-X also lets you directly import REW filters if that’s what you like. That’s a lower cost of entry, and has higher reliability.

“Ultimate best answer” can mean a lot of things, and even with big budgets, you don’t want to spend big budgets everywhere in life.

The only “challenge” is that if you really like the Sony’s 360SS, there’s a chance all these fancy processors are worse.

You can have a ruler flat mono speaker, or a pretty good not ruler flat 5.2 system. Frequency response irregularities get masked in stereo, so you can imagine it’s masked even more in multichannel. AND you have Revel speakers which are designed to be pretty neutral without any DSP.
Now THAT is a no brainer starting option. Thanks! It's amazing but perhaps unsurprising that I'm learning so much more more every day.

It looks to me like a Marantz Cinema 30 would be the perfect next step toy that would let me play with REW room correction and directly compare it to what I have with the Sony to see if I notice any difference, and at a fraction of the price of jumping straight to a Trinnov or even an Anthem, and it certainly looks simpler as well. Hmmmm.

Recently I've learned not to rush into any purchase so I think I'll wait a bit before buying one, but at the moment a receiver with Audyssey seems like the best option to meet my goal of wanting to try alternative room correction. I started by thinking Trinnov's software would be the best, but that's only because I didn't know how one might use REW results to make changes and obviously Audyssey is one answer. Plus there is one additional minor detail in favor of the Marantz. I did buy 2 additional SVS subs so I will now have a total of 4 and the fact that the Marantz supports 4 is cool.
 
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Good choice - and with Marantz Denon, it get even better - you can actually have TWO different DRC systems - Audyssey [where you need to pay 200 USD extra for Windows app] and Dirac, which takes you back around 600? if I remember correctly.

Just for the record Trinnov can handle whatever number of subs, with Altitude 32 you can easily have 2 channel stereo with 30 subs, if this is what you really wish ;-)
 
Now THAT is a no brainer starting option. Thanks!
No problem. There is a reason why Denon & Marantz are so popular. Importantly, you can compare Audyssey and Dirac as well. Dirac has a 30 day return policy. I am not sure about Audyssey MultEQ-X but the iOS app is a lower initial cost just to compare the performance of the DSP compared to Sony.

Ratbuddysey and A1 Evo are enthusiast developed free tools that use the smartphone app to let you use REW data. Not as user friendly but cheaper.


Directly compare it to what I have with the Sony to see if I notice any difference, and at a fraction of the price of jumping straight to a Trinnov or even an Anthem, and it certainly looks simpler as well. Hmmmm.

Consider buying an open box from Crutchfield. You have a great in home trial policy and if you send it back, you don’t feel guilty for taking a new unit and making it used.

It 100% is easier than the Trinnov, but if you watch the YouTube video I sent, you will either conclude that it is way too complex or that it’s hardly complex at all.

But yes, the Trinnov allows you to do stuff like 30 subwoofers and just two speakers.

I started by thinking Trinnov's software would be the best…
I genuinely do think it is the most powerful (and therefore the best). It clearly has the best SINAD when you are talking about digital outputs at 140 dB SINAD with full processing enabled.

However, as much as the Trinnov is objectively the best, based upon processing power, the differences are small and there are those who went Trinnov, found the difference too small or inaudible when you are watching the movie and chose to pocket the savings.

Trinnov is objectively the worst for theaters without a control system since it doesn’t even support HDMI CEC.

For example, a UMIK-1/2 is a calibrated to “20 Hz - 20kHz +/-1dB”

The Trinnov mic used to advertise +/- 0.5 dB, but if you look at the website, they have even gone to upgrade it to +/- 0.1 dB. (the quad microphones allows final precision to be better than an individual mic, so maybe the +/- 0.1 dB spec is with all four signals computed in aggregate.)


It’s an $800 microphone and you can get an entire Onkyo RZ50 with Dirac Full Range included.

The extra precision of the Trinnov microphone is probably not that audible when correcting major room modes, but if you are doing any sort of EQ for your speaker, having a more accurate microphone by default is “the best” even though the difference is small.

If you want the mental stimulation of tweaking for the lowest initial cost, I like the Monolith HTP-1 or a refurb or on-sale Denon AVR. If you want to say, “I had the best” then it’s really hard not to point to the Trinnov, issues like HDMI CEC or powering it on via a remote (on the Alt32) being ignored.

If you want “the best” compatibility and reliability for HDMI CEC, Sony is probably one of the very best, and if you also have a Sony display, the absolute best HDMI CEC experience.

Best is hard to define, but for commercially available consumer Atmos content, Trinnov is the best DSP out there.
 
Lets say you measure a narrow in-room peak at 200hz and you pull it down with -6db EQ. If you don’t change the volume knob, the speaker will be doing slightly less.

Alternatively, let’s say you apply -6db across the full range. If you adjust the volume to match what it was before EQ, the speakers be doing exactly the same thing.

I thought the need for more power when using EQ cuts was essentially because you need more headroom to turn up the volume control post-EQ, not because it used more power as-such.

But maybe I’m thinking about it wrong? Maybe it depends on how many and how broad the cuts are?
If you leave the volume knob in the same position and apply a cut, say, to tame a room mode -the system will draw less power, and the speaker will be doing less overall work than before.

What you really need when you're mostly making cuts to shape the sound is additional gain further down the signal chain. If you compensate for the reduced signal amplitude at the amplifier stage, you're effectively using up more of the amp’s available headroom.
 
Now THAT is a no brainer starting option. Thanks! It's amazing but perhaps unsurprising that I'm learning so much more more every day.

It looks to me like a Marantz Cinema 30 would be the perfect next step toy that would let me play with REW room correction and directly compare it to what I have with the Sony to see if I notice any difference, and at a fraction of the price of jumping straight to a Trinnov or even an Anthem, and it certainly looks simpler as well. Hmmmm.

Recently I've learned not to rush into any purchase so I think I'll wait a bit before buying one, but at the moment a receiver with Audyssey seems like the best option to meet my goal of wanting to try alternative room correction. I started by thinking Trinnov's software would be the best, but that's only because I didn't know how one might use REW results to make changes and obviously Audyssey is one answer. Plus there is one additional minor detail in favor of the Marantz. I did buy 2 additional SVS subs so I will now have a total of 4 and the fact that the Marantz supports 4 is cool.
I recently purchased a Denon 4800H (thanks to Amirm!) because I wanted to added two more SVS subs to my current HT setup.

Yesterday I finally tried the free A1 Evo Acoustica and now I am very satisfied with the result. Highly recommend If you go with Denon / Marantz route.

So sorry to hear about your condition wish you have fun with all learning and playing with your HT set up.

All the best!
 
I'm still very much a neophyte when it comes to using REW, but playing around today resulted in 2 interesting situations.

First, I purchased an additional 2 SVS SB-1000 subwoofers so now I have a total of 4. I really like SVS subs because they come with an iPhone app that allows control over Parametric Equalization, phase, and volume as well as several other parameters. Anyways, using REW and tweaking various parameters at a time allowed me to improve the room response quite dramatically. Below is the final result.

Second, after messing with my subs I took readings on my L,R,C, BL, and BR and took the average. From what I can tell it looks like my system is already doing pretty darn well in producing a flat room response so any tweaking I try may have such a small impact that I won't be able to tell a difference. Now I'm the first to admit I was VERY wrong about not being able to hear a difference between $1k speakers and $5k speakers so I'm perfectly willing to admit I could be wrong in this regard, but it definitely makes me go hmmmm :)

Screenshot 2025-04-25 145306.jpeg


Screenshot 2025-04-25 151255.jpeg
 
I'm still very much a neophyte when it comes to using REW, but playing around today resulted in 2 interesting situations.

First, I purchased an additional 2 SVS SB-1000 subwoofers so now I have a total of 4. I really like SVS subs because they come with an iPhone app that allows control over Parametric Equalization, phase, and volume as well as several other parameters. Anyways, using REW and tweaking various parameters at a time allowed me to improve the room response quite dramatically. Below is the final result.

Second, after messing with my subs I took readings on my L,R,C, BL, and BR and took the average. From what I can tell it looks like my system is already doing pretty darn well in producing a flat room response so any tweaking I try may have such a small impact that I won't be able to tell a difference. Now I'm the first to admit I was VERY wrong about not being able to hear a difference between $1k speakers and $5k speakers so I'm perfectly willing to admit I could be wrong in this regard, but it definitely makes me go hmmmm :)

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For REW enthusiasts, this is what really helped to get out first glimpse of understanding the measurements


another valuable knowledge - https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...phone-method-mmm-for-dummies-using-rew.51333/

but overall - what you want t measure is how your L-C-R behave, in terms fo FR and timing, you should also measure how your subs behave. For L-C-R you are interested in their individual performance and do then overlay, subs and bass section - you want to know how they behave together.

Have fun
 
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