Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[DonH56]

@Flak or anyone that knows or can comment… confused with some comments I have read that you have to choose DLBC or ART. If you choose ART what manages subwoofers, crossovers etc?

This is probably better asked in another thread. It is an interesting, and popular question: "What room correction program works best?" But Trinnov has their own so wrong thread to compare DLBC to ART. I can say Trinnov is more powerful than Dirac Live but I've never used DLBC or ART. It would be interesting to see how DLBC compares to Trinnov's new scheme, if and when available.

 

[Fidji]

Thank you for sharing this. It should come as no surprise that Trinnov won't have Dirac surpass them (at least in some regard). For many practical purposes, however, the big question seems to be how much you can get without some sort of technical overkill. Maybe I am not the only one who will definitely not install 16 subs in the living room.

I have recently added 1 sub to get to 9.7.7, but one array of 4 is handled by MiniDsp Flex. if this MagicBass is any good,, I still have 5 spare. channels, so going 9.11.7 might be in my future (I will just stack all the corner placed subs)

 

[Spocko]

I have recently added 1 sub to get to 9.7.7, but one array of 4 is handled by MiniDsp Flex. if this MagicBass is any good,, I still have 5 spare. channels, so going 9.11.7 might be in my future (I will just stack all the corner placed subs)

That's A LOT of bass power! What size subs are these and what's the volume of your room?

 

[Fidji]

That's A LOT of bass power! What size subs are these and what's the volume of your room?

2*15 in
4*12 in
1*10 in - reserved just for C
+ L+R are 2*10in each

If Trinnov / REW is to be believed I am at f-3 15Hz in my 32sqm/96 cubic m room. I am lucky to have room gain at around 18Hz.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Trinnov | Trinnov to showcase its new revolutionary technology at ISE

Trinnov to showcase groundbreaking acoustic processing technology

www.trinnov.com

Can a room really dissappear acoustically?

 

[laidick]

By the way, the latest firmware finally has OSD showing the volume.

 

[abdo123]

@Flak or anyone that knows or can comment… confused with some comments I have read that you have to choose DLBC or ART. If you choose ART what manages subwoofers, crossovers etc?

ART does not use crossovers at all from what has been shared so far. The concept of a channel is very much blurred to make a full acoustically cohesive system.

The only thing that you can control is how deep you want your speaker to participate in ART.

 

[DonH56]

Not sure why the Dirac Live and ART posts in this thread... I do not know about ART, but bass management (crossovers) is handled by the AVR/AVP for Dirac Live, and most room correction programs. Dirac Live knows nothing about crossovers; it treats every speaker as full-range.

 

[abdo123]

Not sure why the Dirac Live and ART posts in this thread... I do not know about ART, but bass management (crossovers) is handled by the AVR/AVP for Dirac Live, and most room correction programs. Dirac Live knows nothing about crossovers; it treats every speaker as full-range.

Trinnov announced their equivalent service very recently, so it’s not super irrelevant.

 

[hmt]

Not sure why the Dirac Live and ART posts in this thread... I do not know about ART, but bass management (crossovers) is handled by the AVR/AVP for Dirac Live, and most room correction programs. Dirac Live knows nothing about crossovers; it treats every speaker as full-range.

That's not true since DLBC. The Bass Control module is manging the crossovers there.

 

[sarumbear]

By the way, the latest firmware finally has OSD showing the volume.

Took a while

 

[Matthew J Poes]

A common mistake (to my understanding that is) is to measure a room like you measure a sound emitter, like a speaker. They should not be measured the same way. The speaker measurement does not and should not include any reverberation. That is why pulses (as in REW) and or computational calculations (as in LFS) are used.

All enclosed spaces have different level of RT throughout the audio spectrum, and unless they are very big, they also have room modes, which are basically resonances. If you measure the sound level coming direct to you before the reverb of the room has time to fill in and increase the level at the frequencies where RT is high, your measurements will not be correct.

In short: gating allows you to avoid the room, which also means you are not measuring the room. The reflections added by NFS are just that reflections, not the reverberation, which are multiple reflections. Our ear/brain mechanism is effected by early reflections and hence NFS concentrates on that. Remember though, NFS is a specific device designed to measure a speaker FR as it it is in an anechoic environment and to simulate its response in a typical listening room. It is not an acoustic analyser designed to analyse a space.

A sine swept measurement still contains as much reverb as any other method. Why would it not? Reverb is the effect of the mix of reflections in the room, the impulsive nature of the signal doesn't matter.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

This is very interesting.

Resonances vary in amplitude depending on how long they are excited and damping. In a room the peaks vary strongly depending upon where in the room the excitation is, ie speaker location, and how big the various peaks actually are for the listener depends on where in the room the listener is located and how long the note is played - an organ tone and bass drum will be unlikely to generate the same amplitude peaks.

This means the test signal sweep speed used in the analysis will effect the amplitude of the measured peaks. I assume the test signals are designed to be similar to musical signals, which generally decay, but has always meant the "correction" of peaks of the 3 main room modes and their harmonics can only be "correct" at one listener location for one type of musical signal (ie how similar to the test signal sweep), so better than nowt in a very reactive room but a long way from a solved problem.

IMHO of course.

The new approaches to bass control (if you will) from Dirac and Trinnov rely on reflection cancelation. Everything you share here would be moot with these methods. Room modes and SBIR effects are a function of reflections off barriers. These methods fully cancel those reflections, so no modes or resonances are created. It creates anechoic bass, basically.

Trinnov is sharing very little details on what they are doing while the patent files.

 

[Fidji]

Trinnov | Trinnov to showcase its new revolutionary technology at ISE

Trinnov to showcase groundbreaking acoustic processing technology

www.trinnov.com

Can a room really dissappear acoustically?

Redefining Low Frequency Reproduction.pdf

drive.google.com

presentation from Webinar on new technology - long story short - at least 4, starts to get serious with 6, more is better - on number of subs.
it is NOT Double Bass Array, will be available by the end of the year.

Alt32 owners with 24CH and more channels are covered, Alt16 with 16+4 CH - I think Trinnov will look for some HW solution for them.

 

[hmt]

Also they need to have some HW solution because there are upscale cinemas that alread use all of the channels provided by an A32 or even A48. There are not much of them but they exist. For normal living room cinemas the 20 Channels of the A16 could be sufficient even if 6 of them used by subs. But since those are only sub channels it should be easy to have a breakout box for them.

 

[Adi777]

Alt32 owners with 24CH and more channels are covered, Alt16 with 16+4 CH - I think Trinnov will look for some HW solution for them.

It's only for Trinnov? What about JBL Synthesis SDP-75? Does Trinnov work with JBL?

 

[sarumbear]

A sine swept measurement still contains as much reverb as any other method. Why would it not? Reverb is the effect of the mix of reflections in the room, the impulsive nature of the signal doesn't matter.

When it is gated, how can it include the reflections/reverb?

 

[Fidji]

Also they need to have some HW solution because there are upscale cinemas that alread use all of the channels provided by an A32 or even A48. There are not much of them but they exist. For normal living room cinemas the 20 Channels of the A16 could be sufficient even if 6 of them used by subs. But since those are only sub channels it should be easy to have a breakout box for them.

I think most of those cinemas near to 48Ch have already sufficient subs, and if not, there will be some solution for those poor souls.
With Alt 16 you can go down from 9.4.6 to e.g. 9.6.4 and be in the game. I have 24CH(+4) Alt32 9.6.7 I plan to add 2 more subs for Magic Bass.

What is more interesting to me - I will need to re-think my passive treatments concept, as I have quite a lot of assets in membrane resonators, tuned to frequencies around 40Hz, those will become obsolete, as it will be handled by Trinnov and seems like critical FR will be 80-200Hz.

maybe some more info, that I recall - "stacked subs" do not count, system will see them more as 1 sub acoustically. subs will not need to be symmetrically placed, nor is room symmetry needed. for 1 row of seats you can get away with 4, but it will limit vertical control. Ideally subs should be the same, or similar [they specifically expect not to mix ported/sealed [as expected}} You can also get away wit e.g 4 front/3 rear etc.

 

[hmt]

Yes, after a DBA or Multi Sub the critical range is from the XO to your subs till Schroeder. In my setup it is like this. I have 4 subs optimzied by MSO. Very good response and seat to seat consistency to about 120Hz and till 200Hz still better than my fronts. XO is at 120Hz therefore. Active absorbing via MIMO till 200Hz would be very helpful here since I cannot stick so much passive absorbtion to solve the problems from 120-200Hz.

 

[DonH56]

It's only for Trinnov? What about JBL Synthesis SDP-75? Does Trinnov work with JBL?

I have been told it will apply to both (I have an SDP-75). Supposedly they are trying to better synchronize the two products, though to date updates seem to take much longer to be released for the SDP-75 than Trinnov. That said, once or twice when I have pinged Harman customer service, they have pushed the update before my processor said it was available.