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Adding Trinnov Optimizer to 2.2 home theater?

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Apr 25, 2023
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Hi all,

I’m really interested in adding Trinnov to a home 2.2 mixed use music/movie/gaming (50/40/10%) system. I currently use a Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 but I’m interested in seeing what Trinnov can do in my non-ideal room.

Currently have appleTV+consoles going into my LG tv, and my TV outputting to Lyngdorf via HDMI (w/ eARC). I stream music to the Lyngdorf unit directly with tidal or airplay2.

I love the Lyngdorf since I can control the volume through my AppleTV or LG remote and it switches inputs easily; I can turn off the appleTV and my tv and the Lyngdorf turn off as well (hdmi CEC I think?)

Is there any way to replicate this with Trinnov optimizer added in?

My thoughts so far:
- go for a Trinnov altitude 16, but pay a very high price to only use 10% of it…would still need a Wiim or blue sound streamer for tidal/airplay2, dual fans are unappealing…

- add a Trinnov Nova and a power amp — not as easy to use, and the Lyngdorf only outputs analog out, so I might reduce signal quality by not keeping the signal digital? Worried about this chain affecting lip sync as well. The Nova is a pro unit and would have a steep learning curve but I’d be happy to tinker.

- ditch the Lyngdorf and replace it with a hifirose streamer (I believe they have HDMI CEC, eARC, excellent streaming connectivity), connect that to a Trinnov Nova and power amp

- Trinnov amethyst instead of Nova? Not sure this makes sense except perhaps for ease of use, but it’s very very expensive

- ditch the idea of Trinnov being that much better than roomperfect and enjoy what I have (most practical and likely option)

Love the spirited and informed discussions here and I welcome any and all advice/criticisms!
 
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My bias is that the strength of Trinnov is really once you get into a bunch of channels and having 3D remapping doing things like making Atmos effects work better.

For 2 channel music (ignoring your two subs), I don’t feel like there is a big difference between Dirac and Trinnov. Heck, I am pretty happy with the WiiM PEQ.

For home theater, the Trinnov setup is much more immersive than the Dirac setup I had with the HTP-1.

I have tried Waveforming and you definitely *feel* more bass in your chest even when the subs are in less than ideal positions. If you were looking for a 2.4 setup, the Altitude 16 would be interesting…

All that said, I don’t believe the Altitude 16 does HDMI CEC for even anything like volume control with even the latest firmware. It’s really designed for integrated Creston style setups or universal IR remotes.
 
My bias is that the strength of Trinnov is really once you get into a bunch of channels and having 3D remapping doing things like making Atmos effects work better.

For 2 channel music (ignoring your two subs), I don’t feel like there is a big difference between Dirac and Trinnov. Heck, I am pretty happy with the WiiM PEQ.

For home theater, the Trinnov setup is much more immersive than the Dirac setup I had with the HTP-1.

I have tried Waveforming and you definitely *feel* more bass in your chest even when the subs are in less than ideal positions. If you were looking for a 2.4 setup, the Altitude 16 would be interesting…

All that said, I don’t believe the Altitude 16 does HDMI CEC for even anything like volume control with even the latest firmware. It’s really designed for integrated Creston style setups or universal IR remotes.

What’s the point with 2.2 though?

I am using a Lyngdorf MP-50 and it does such a good job, and easy, that I could see myself trying the TDAI series.
But for me just slowing down, is often the best way forward.
The MP is a bit overkill for a 5.x.x system, and for a 2.2 it seems a bit hard to justify anything more than just some subs added to your TDAI.

I must be missing something.
 
What’s the point with 2.2 though?

I am using a Lyngdorf MP-50 and it does such a good job, and easy, that I could see myself trying the TDAI series.
But for me just slowing down, is often the best way forward.
The MP is a bit overkill for a 5.x.x system, and for a 2.2 it seems a bit hard to justify anything more than just some subs added to your TDAI.

I must be missing something.

I’m not the OP, but I have an Altitude running 5.4.2. When it comes to sound, I think there is good consensus that
1) Room
2) Speakers
3) DSP

Is what makes the biggest difference in sound, in that order. It’s pretty hard to move to a new home for the simple challenge of logistics and finances, and even harder to get an upgrade in the audio room since you may find a home that is a big upgrade in every other aspect besides the audio room.

Speakers are the next step. Once you get to a certain level of neutrality in the frequency response, intended SPL at your listening position and dispersion characteristics, it becomes diminishing returns.

That leaves DSP.

Trinnov being the most expensive DSP solution naturally has a mythos around it. Is it all snake oil and sighted bias? Or is there actually some improvement?

I believe there is real improvement, but this is also based upon my experience with the first consumer-priced Trinnov product from over a decade ago, the Sherwood r972. That thing was under 1K a few years after release and offered some of the very best home cinema experiences I ever had. After the HDMI board died on it, I went through a series of very good AVRs and AVPs and was very happy but I felt there was still a missing spatial experience. I chalked it up to poor audio memory and nostalgia but when a used Trinnov Altitude32 popped up, I gave it a try and boom, that immersion is back.

I have thought about using binaural mics or an ambisonic mic to analyze different room correction systems but the logistics of doing a processor shoot out with reliable calibration and configuration is a whole weekend of work with just isn’t practical for a hobbyist.
 
go for a Trinnov altitude 16, but pay a very high price to only use 10% of it…would still need a Wiim or blue sound streamer for tidal/airplay2
Trinnov Altitude 16 is Roon Ready, so no need for extra devices
 
Lyngdorf EQ is excellent. I wouldn't change gears just for the sake of it.
Appreciate your input! It’s hard not to go deep into the rabbit hole chasing that last 3-5% of improvement. I’ve been reading about how Roomperfect does not adjust impulse response, which Trinnov (and Dirac) would, so really just wondering what I’m missing.

Maybe I’ll invest if and when I set up a proper home theater space!
 
Appreciate your input! It’s hard not to go deep into the rabbit hole chasing that last 3-5% of improvement. I’ve been reading about how Roomperfect does not adjust impulse response, which Trinnov (and Dirac) would, so really just wondering what I’m missing.

Maybe I’ll invest if and when I set up a proper home theater space!

If the speakers are phase correct then the impulse response would be pretty good with DIRAC.
So the “EQ needed” does seem to somewhat on what exactly is “needed”.
 
I use a Trinnov Nova in a 2 channel system (active ATC speakers). I correct full range and don’t hear any ringing artifacts. I’m really impressed with it - there are very obvious improvements in imaging, timbres and transients. And of course it also tames my bass modes.

My speakers have a dip in the mid/tweeter crossover region, which I have copied to make a room curve - the sound was a bit harsh with it flattened.

It’s already expensive, but you can pay to unlock more channels to manage up to 4 subwoofers too.
 
I use a Trinnov Nova in a 2 channel system (active ATC speakers). I correct full range and don’t hear any ringing artifacts. I’m really impressed with it - there are very obvious improvements in imaging, timbres and transients. And of course it also tames my bass modes.

My speakers have a dip in the mid/tweeter crossover region, which I have copied to make a room curve - the sound was a bit harsh with it flattened.

It’s already expensive, but you can pay to unlock more channels to manage up to 4 subwoofers too.
Very cool! What streamer do you use? Was the Nova pretty intuitive to set up? Looks daunting since it’s meant for professionals as opposed to consumers.
 
Maybe I’ll invest if and when I set up a proper home theater space!

The argument for getting it now, especially if there is a deal, is that it probably will be upgradable to whatever your future needs are *and* you get to enjoy it in the present.

It’s not really an investment since the last 3-5% costs so much more.

In terms of difficulty, there are a lot of tweaks but the basic setup is very straightforward.

 
Very cool! What streamer do you use? Was the Nova pretty intuitive to set up? Looks daunting since it’s meant for professionals as opposed to consumers.
I play CDs with an ATC CDA2 Mk2, which is a combined cd player, dac and preamp.

Originally I plugged my old Audiolab 8200 cd player directly into the Nova’s digital input via SPDIF, but I found the clock drifted out of sync and after about a day there was audible distortion. I didn’t want to fire up my laptop to reset the clock every time I listened to music, so I gave up and now use the analogue inputs from my preamp to the Trinnov, which then converts to digital, DSPs, then converts back to analogue. Since I set it up this way I haven’t had to do anything, it just sits there, doing its thing. My Trinnov unit was a very early sample, serial number is 41, so perhaps the issue is sorted now with updates, I just haven’t felt the need to try again.

In terms of set up it’s really easy. I was up and running in about an hour. I still use the Trinnov recommended settings, but you can dig quite deep if you are keen. Alternatively I believe Trinnov will tweak it over the internet if you send them an email - I must get round to trying that.
 
I’ve just remembered another reason for my giving up on the digital inputs: my only volume control was on my Trinnov phone App, and I didn’t want to spend £££ on a “La Remote”.
 
I saw that, a $1000 volume knob. So you control volume via your CD player and leave the Nova alone?
 
The argument for getting it now, especially if there is a deal, is that it probably will be upgradable to whatever your future needs are *and* you get to enjoy it in the present.

It’s not really an investment since the last 3-5% costs so much more.

In terms of difficulty, there are a lot of tweaks but the basic setup is very straightforward.


Have definitely made this argument to myself many times! I suppose I can give it 6-12 months to think about, and pull the trigger next Black Friday or earlier if I find a good deal secondhand. Also hopeful Trinnov will release an altitude 8 or something like that, but not holding my breath.
 
I saw that, a $1000 volume knob. So you control volume via your CD player and leave the Nova alone?
Yes, the unit I use is a preamp with a cd drawer and dac in it really, so it has a big volume knob on it. The Nova, now it’s all set up, just sits in the otherwise analogue signal chain - I never touch it.
 
I just purchased the nova for a 2.1 setup. I have a hifirose 130 streamer going into a topping dx9 dac. New marantz model 10 amp (yes, it does look great In the flesh!). A rel #31 sub and some pretty unique 2 way passive speakers from Audiomachina called the ultimate monitors. A very not ideal “listening room” that is also my office! There are a couple of options on how to connect to the nova. I opted for the analogue outs of the dac into the nova. On paper this is not the most direct way but there are a few reasons I went with this configuration. The bottom line it did make a drastic difference and was relatively easy to configure. I can let you know more details if interested. The only thing that I need to change is the boring black box chassis. I already have a plan for that. A custom fabricated case from billet copper and aluminum ala Mr. D’Agostino
 
I just purchased the nova for a 2.1 setup. I have a hifirose 130 streamer going into a topping dx9 dac. New marantz model 10 amp (yes, it does look great In the flesh!).
Ooooh. You have a whole bunch of interesting gear. If you are in the U.S., consider sending the Model 10 or Nova to Amir to test with a request for a planned schedule quick turnaround given the cost of the Model 10. Or consider picking up a E1DA Cosmos to run measurements yourself.

The Trinnov HAS to convert everything to digital. From that standpoint, HifiRose into Trinnov into Model 10 and Rel sub is the way to go. Run the Model 10 as a power amp and then use the Trinnov for volume control in order to balance the volume between the sub and speakers

If you run the REL at speaker level, it is more of a wildcard how well Trinnov can handle that. But then you can stick with the Marantz for volume control.
 
We already ran some tests with the Nova and got great results in my room. I had some help with someone that knows the Nova very well. He was one of the few Nova reps that would deal with a home 2.1 setup. Most of the folks using the Nova are recording studios.

The other option that you mentioned is to go coax directly from the streamer (hifirose 130) into the Nova. I will run some comparison tests between the 2 options. There are a couple of reasons that I opted to insert the Nova in front of the dac vs the streamer. I have some DSD files with some being DSD 512. The dx9 also has a surprisingly good headphone amp. This setup gives me the most flexibility and the sound doesn't seem to be degraded with the multiple conversations. There is a pretty clean signal coming out of the dac due to a lot of upstream optimizations.
I am able to control most of my listening from an iPad mini which works with both the Nova and hifirose. Mostly listen to tidal via the hifirose app.
I did see a few threads with people interested in having Amir see what the marantz is made of! I would have to find a special shipping case as it is pretty heavy and would want to make sure that it travels "nicely"
 
After a week of tweaking and listening, I am pleasantly surprised how well the flat target curve works with my room and setup. I am still connecting XLR out from my dac into the Nova. I level set the amp and Nova and control the volume via the dac. I use an iPad mini to control the Nova and hifirose 130.
I am working on a custom case for the Nova that will be more in line astecically with the other components.
I am trying to build a custom case for the Nova that will look like some of the D'AGOSTINO components. I don't have the option of stuffing the Nova in the closet so time to break out the CNC and get creative
 
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