Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[7Tiger]

Wish Trinnov did an Altitude 32 version sans internal DAC/Preamp just like Storm ISP EVO... and with comparable price tag

 

[CINERAMAX]

Let's move the discussion here



Trinnov is the only [AFAIK] processor capable of rendering 24.1.10 Atmos content + 128 objects.

Re Matrix - it is in Expert Menu and you can basically route whatever you wish to wherever you wish, sum up channels, multiply them, delay, gain etc. No real reason to do it, as you have couple of other options - e.g. 3D remapping or arraying of speakers and of course Auro3D

Re Logic 7 - this is not an issue to re-create in Trinnov, e.g. for 2Ch music and with 9.x.7 setup it takes Logic7 couple of notches higher, But you also get very similar results with adjusted Auromatic upmixer, you just need to have proper speaker layout. Trinnov anyway recommends heights, not Atmos tops. I have heights above ear layer speakers angled at MLP and speakers are capable to go down to 60Hz without compression. I run heights bit hotter to enhance immersion and you need to carefully adjsut bass management in order not to get too pronounced bass, once you get into stronger Auromatic setting.

For 5.1 and Logic7 - I just don’t bother and use adjsuted Auromatic, with Wides and Surrounds used as one array to utilize all aear channels and I use Height Mids as VoG with 3dB attenuation. I have slighlty different target curves for surrounds where I try to get bit more meat to the sound from 150-2000Hz vs L-C-R that I keep with house curve.

I do not touch DTS HD MA - it get automatically upmixed to 7.1 and that is enough

Naural X - don;y use st all, unlistenable, same for for Dolby surround

I just love the Denon Marantz implementation of Dolby Surround in a 7.x.4 . Beats me why Trinnov relies on the echoey undynamic Auro upmixer- cannot hate it enough.

 

[hollis]

Wish Trinnov did an Altitude 32 version sans internal DAC/Preamp just like Storm ISP EVO... and with comparable price tag

They are already working on it and it will be an update to the existing hardware. It was discussed earlier in this thread. AES67 will allow you to get full multich digital out.

 

[hollis]

I just love the Denon Marantz implementation of Dolby Surround in a 7.x.4 .

can you tell me more? What’s good about it?

 

[Fidji]

They are already working on it and it will be an update to the existing hardware. It was discussed earlier in this thread. AES67 will allow you to get full multich digital out.

AES67 and Trinnov [also new DSU version] - it is being discussed, that is true. Since years … Still nothing and I do not even hope it will come anytime soon. Right now one needs to be happyt with 16 digital out [but you loose +4]

To be honest, I would prefer to get infra-sub enhancement and WF with changing directions as priority ;-) .

 

[7Tiger]

They are already working on it and it will be an update to the existing hardware. It was discussed earlier in this thread. AES67 will allow you to get full multich digital out.

Probably missed where it was discussed... Don't really care about AES67/Dante, "ordinary" AES will be perfectly enough so that I can use any external DACs I like.

AES67 and Trinnov [also new DSU version] - it is being discussed, that is true. Since years … Still nothing and I do not even hope it will come anytime soon.

Then it looks like I have some more time to save up for my endgame AVP

 

[dped90]

the information provided on the website is atrocious, nothing about price or availability, nothing about how many PEQs are allowed per input/output, nothing about how many taps are possible via FIR (if FIR is supported).

is their system automated or hands-on?

I feel like i wasted my time going through that.

As they managed to be a big hit at Axpona last year (more on this later) there have been changes.

dspNexus DSP Audio Processor - Danville Signal

Danville Signal Processing is a technology partner for high performance audio solutions. We provide SHARC-based DSP modules for a variety of OEMs, ODMs and oth

danvillesignal.com

The dspNexus 2/8 with ADSP-21569 and AK4499EX is shipping - Danville Signal

Danville Signal Processing is a technology partner for high performance audio solutions. We provide SHARC-based DSP modules for a variety of OEMs, ODMs and oth

danvillesignal.com

Even someone with my limited knowledge could make sense of the first two Dream Weaver tutorials (which is where I stopped), but you'll need to plow through the rest of them
(via Youtube or elsewhere) because all crossovers and filters have to be built at least partly from scratch via this software-or you can hire someone like Richard Hollis to remotely set most of your system up for you, while having you record and save live system measurements for him to thereby build and save the DSP based filter filles.

As my music sources would be via USB and my system is not multichannel-a pair of three way speakers (to be eventually biamped) and 3 or 4 Rythmik F12 subs-this unit appeared to be one of the best solutions. Danville's latest DSPNexus uses arguably the best sounding DAC chips available with a high performance design scheme likely built around them, as these measurements seem to bear this out. https://audioxpress.com/article/outboard-dsp-danville-signal-dspnexus.

However, I am not yet in immediate need to choose any active crossover + bass management + hardware. And I also found questionable the way designer Al Clark does some things, from post 59 on down. https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=191930.40

OTOH, for my needs as described, what solution would be substantially better?

 

[murl]

Does anyone have any experience using this unit with active speakers like Dutch and Dutch 8cs or genelecs? Was wondering if the analog to digital to analog conversion with DSP would be an issue with timing.

 

[jhenderson0107]

Does anyone have any experience using this unit with active speakers like Dutch and Dutch 8cs or genelecs? Was wondering if the analog to digital to analog conversion with DSP would be an issue with timing.

My home theater includes the Altitude16 and Genelecs. Here are links to the block diagram and images. All base-layer speakers are currently driven digitally and there are no timing issues. I've previously driven all of the base-layer speakers with XLR analog and can detect no audible degradation.

 

[murl]

My home theater includes the Altitude16 and Genelecs. Here are links to the block diagram and images. All base-layer speakers are currently driven digitally and there are no timing issues. I've previously driven all of the base-layer speakers with XLR analog and can detect no audible degradation.

Thanks for the reply. Did I read that correctly the Altitude 16 can send a digital signal via AES?

 

[jhenderson0107]

Thanks for the reply. Did I read that correctly the Altitude 16 can send a digital signal via AES?

The Altitude16 provides 16 analog channels via XLR and four digital channels via S/PDIF. As shown in the block diagram, Hosa units convert the latter to AES/EBU. Additionally, four of the sixteen analog channels are converted to AES/EBU by the Yamaha, allowing the entire bed-layer to be driven digitally. There's no audible difference, but it simplifies cabling.

 

[murl]

Gotcha. So the trinnov should work with 8cs it would just handle the conversion internally.

 

[Zooqu1ko]

Gotcha. So the trinnov should work with 8cs it would just handle the conversion internally.

If you want an all digital setup with an Altitude 16, you'll have to wait for Trinnov to deliver the promised AES67 support and find yourself an AES67 to AES3 interface. If you don't want to wait, the Altitude 32 has more digital outputs, or maybe the Storm EVO is an alternative.

 

[murl]

If you want an all digital setup with an Altitude 16, you'll have to wait for Trinnov to deliver the promised AES67 support and find yourself an AES67 to AES3 interface. If you don't want to wait, the Altitude 32 has more digital outputs, or maybe the Storm EVO is an alternative.

I’m just wondering if the digital outs are even an important consideration. If the timing works with the conversion then it should be ok. Would be nice to know if someone who has done this in the past.

 

[jhenderson0107]

In my experience, the digital outputs provide no audible benefit over the analog outputs. As illustrated in my block diagram above, I have a blend of analog and digital outputs in my system, and there are no timing issues nor any audible difference between channels. Initially, I configured the system to use all analog outputs. Subsequently I migrated the L/C/R channels to digital and audible quality remained unchanged. Finally, I migrated the entire bed layer to digital and the audible quality remained unchanged.

If desired, two of the Yamaha AD8HR units (or equivalents) could be used to implement an all-digital output configuration using the altitude 16.

 

[murl]

In my experience, the digital outputs provide no audible benefit over the analog outputs. As illustrated in my block diagram above, I have a blend of analog and digital outputs in my system, and there are no timing issues nor any audible difference between channels. Initially, I configured the system to use all analog outputs. Subsequently I migrated the left center right channels to digital and audible quality remain unchanged. Finally, I migrated the entire bed layer to digital and the audible quality remained unchanged.

If desired two of the Yamaha AD8HR units (or an equivalent), illustrated in my block diagram could be used to implement an all-digital output configuration using the altitude 16.

Thanks for all of the advice. I think I’ve searched every forum and can’t find any evidence of someone incorporating the Dutch & Dutch 8Cs into a home theater with the Trinnov. I read on other forums that people had issues with syncing voices to the speakers given the latency.

 

[jhenderson0107]

Thanks for all of the advice. I think I’ve searched every forum and can’t find any evidence of someone incorporating the Dutch & Dutch 8Cs into a home theater with the Trinnov. I read on other forums that people had issues with syncing voices to the speakers given the latency.

The Dutch & Dutch 8C monitors offer two latency modes: Low Latency and Linear Phase. Low Latency mode provides a latency of around 3.1 ms, while Linear Phase mode has a latency of approximately 33.2 ms. The choice between the two modes depends on the application, with Low Latency suitable for live tracking or home-theater and Linear Phase ideal for mixing, mastering, and situations where latency is not a major concern (per Dutch & Dutch).

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The Dutch & Dutch 8C monitors offer two latency modes: Low Latency and Linear Phase. Low Latency mode provides a latency of around 3.1 ms, while Linear Phase mode has a latency of approximately 33.2 ms. The choice between the two modes depends on the application, with Low Latency suitable for live tracking or home-theater and Linear Phase ideal for mixing, mastering, and situations where latency is not a major concern (per Dutch & Dutch).

Of course, the Linear Phase mode is fine for home theater if all the speakers are D&D (or can have their latency extended to match).

 

[jhenderson0107]

Of course, the Linear Phase mode is fine for home theater if all the speakers are D&D (or can have their latency extended to match).

Most theater processors phase-match their speaker array by injecting latencies throughout (within reason, of course). This works for active, passive and hybrid arrays as long as the overall latency remains below the lip-sync threshold (< ~100 mS).

 

[murl]

Moral of the story it doesn’t sound like this will be an issue. I really don’t think I can afford to use 8cs for all channels in a home theater.

I have a dealer who suggested I use genelecs for the remaining channels. I am considering getting a third 8c for LCR but am unsure if this would work with the layout of the room and the TV we are going to buy. The speaker would probably need to be placed horizontally inside a cabinet behind a grill or on top of a cabinet in a horizontal position.