The sound quality of DSD?

[danadam]

369 DXD original recording format / 1881 titles = 20% originated as high bit rate PCM.

That's a fair chunk.

Ah, but also, as they admit themselves:

At least 80% of DSD recordings offered on NativeDSD.com at the moment have some form of post production, which means they are most likely being converted to DXD - then through the Pyramix digital mixer back to DSD.

 

[mansr]

probablyabitofdsd.com just didn't have the same ring to it.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Pure DSD offerings are usually about like Whole Grain foods
...................yeah right!

More information on their High Rate program.

https://www.nativedsd.com/product-tag/higher-rate-program/

They state:

the overwhelming majority of these recordings were edited and post processed in DXD, then converted (modulated) into one or more DSD deliverable bit rates by the label.

They do use the excellent HQPlayer Pro to re-modulate to different bit rates and formats.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I also purchased the CD version of the Prokofiev production for comparison. I am not going to state my observations on how these DSD256 recordings sound superior, or how the Prokofiev CD compares to the DSD256 version, because I would not be believed here or taken seriously.

Well. since I play these recordings (except for the LAWO) in DSD256 in their multichannel versions, I can firmly say that they sound quite different from and superior to the CDs.

 

[AndyLu]

Through my system, and to me, the attached productions sound superior to any other of my classical recording from my collection of CD's and PCM downloads:

View attachment 83779View attachment 83780View attachment 83782View attachment 83781

They all happen to be DSD256 files purchased and downloaded from nativedsd.com. This web site claims that their products are all natively recorded in DSD format (hence the web site title).

I also purchased the CD version of the Prokofiev production for comparison. I am not going to state my observations on how these DSD256 recordings sound superior, or how the Prokofiev CD compares to the DSD256 version, because I would not be believed here or taken seriously. Furthermore, some on this scientific forum would probably ridicule me outright, and I am not interested in that. I am here just to recommend these recordings for those who are curious.

I take you seriously and I have a lot of dsd's from NativeDSD myself

 

[Esotechnik]

Pure DSD offerings are usually about like Whole Grain foods

I think, this is "audio drugs" for fans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasound#Safety
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361256/

I can firmly say that they sound quite different from and superior to the CDs.

http://sdg-master.com/lesestoff/attachment.pdf

 

[watchnerd]

probablyabitofdsd.com just didn't have the same ring to it.

You made me shoot wine out my nose.

 

[danadam]

Well. since I play these recordings (except for the LAWO) in DSD256 in their multichannel versions, I can firmly say that they sound quite different from and superior to the CDs.

CD/SACD Blind Test Results ...

Did you miss or ignore the multichannel part?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Did you miss or ignore the multichannel part?

One or the other.

 

[Esotechnik]

Did you miss or ignore the multichannel part?

I have only 2 loudspeakers.
Can you buy (or download similar files at torrent sites) and compare surround PCM with DSD?
https://www.naxos.com/blu-ray_audio.asp

P.S. review: "Beats anything I have ever heard, including SACD!"
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004DIPLKY#
1 Used from $18.63
8 New from $8.95

 

[danadam]

Can you buy (or download similar files at torrent sites) and compare surround PCM with DSD?

No, though I don't expect them to differ unless they are made different on purpose. But that is a subtle change of the topic to comparing surround DSD to surround PCM, while Kal was quite deliberate in his humorous remark to make the comparison to CDs.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I have only 2 loudspeakers.
Can you buy (or download similar files at torrent sites) and compare surround PCM with DSD?

Dunno about those sites.

P.S. review: "Beats anything I have ever heard, including SACD!"
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004DIPLKY#
1 Used from $18.63
8 New from $8.95

Did you miss this other review?​

"2.0 out of 5 stars Not for the audiophile
Reviewed in the United States on March 10, 2011

This Blu-Ray Audio only disc is Region Free, as are all Naxos releases.

Presented in DTS-HD Master Audio 5.0 and LPCM2.0 @ 96kHz/24bit, this disc sounds muddy, in either sound option. There is no other word to describe it. The orchestra is indistinct and even the piano lacks the clarity and resonance expected from high-rez discs. I'd be very interested to compare it to the Redbook CD version of the same performances, as they are extremely good performances, only marred by the sound quality in this format. It certainly doesn't stack up aurally against my SACDs of the same concertos. My advice is to demo it before you buy, as you can pick up the RBCDs for under $5.00.

If Naxos is trying to woo the audiophiles away from SACD to Blu-Ray, this offering will not be the answer. It seems clear they need to engage better engineers as EuroArts and other labels manage to produce Blu-Ray discs with spectacular sound.

A great disappointment."

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think, this is "audio drugs" for fans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasound#Safety
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361256/


View attachment 83836
http://sdg-master.com/lesestoff/attachment.pdf

This doesn't represent a less than 5% result due to chance.

 

[Esotechnik]

this disc sounds muddy

May be on the cheap or automotive/mobile equipment?
"S/N ratio (IHF-A) CD 123dB, SACD 106dB, USB 123dB"
http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=15#spec

 

[Kal Rubinson]

May be on the cheap or automotive/mobile equipment?
"S/N ratio (IHF-A) CD 123dB, SACD 106dB, USB 123dB"
http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=15#spec

Perhaps but why is this device spec relevant? I chose my review quotation merely in counterbalance to the one you chose.
The Naxos BDs are quite good, imho, but not outstanding.

 

[andymok]

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have fun!

 

[andymok]

SACD
A Technical Overview of the Formatand Production Workflow
https://www.sonicstudio.com/pdf/dsd/SACD_FormatOverview.pdf

see P.27 - Notes for Audio Signal Properties ( ANNEX D.2 )

also
https://kb.roonlabs.com/DSD_to_PCM_Settings

//One of the most common practical measures used to prevent instability is limiting the amplitude of the input signal. In fact, the Scarlett Book (SACD) specifications require that the input signal be limited to -6 dBFS (meaning, 6dB less dynamic range than the original signal).//

An experiment, could be encoder-dependent:
View attachment 83750

The clipping limit seems frequency dependent. In the range of low noise floor (purple to blue) DSD doesn't clip at 0dBFS, at higher frequencies the ~60kHz noise cluster interacts with the sweep, and caused clipping even at -6dBFS PCM level.

 

[watchnerd]

I have only 2 loudspeakers.
Can you buy (or download similar files at torrent sites) and compare surround PCM with DSD?
https://www.naxos.com/blu-ray_audio.asp

P.S. review: "Beats anything I have ever heard, including SACD!"
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004DIPLKY#
1 Used from $18.63
8 New from $8.95

Or I can stream it for free as part of Amazon Prime...

Sounds pretty good via streaming, but nothing truly blowing my doors off indicating that this would be an amazing recording to listen to in a better format.

Most great recordings sound like great recordings even when streamed, in my experience. They just might sound even better other ways.

 

[bennetng]

//One of the most common practical measures used to prevent instability is limiting the amplitude of the input signal. In fact, the Scarlett Book (SACD) specifications require that the input signal be limited to -6 dBFS (meaning, 6dB less dynamic range than the original signal).//

So if I follow this guideline and use exactly -6dBFS then the resulting DSD file will be trashed. The consequence of blindly trusting "guidelines".
[update] 88.2k PCM input at -0.1dBFS to DSD64, to illustrate that the maximum level is frequency-dependent.

 

[bennetng]

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have fun!

If it is audible...

That paper doesn't even mention level matching the playback volumes. It does, however, show quite different frequency responses between the recording formats (1 dB shift for graph legibility only):

Then it is also potentially audible, right?

Disclaimer: I am not the one who say the differences above are audible, at least to me.