Subwoofer Comparison

[chingaling]

What about a Sub with multiple drivers, say one active and 2 passive drivers, does that solve anything, would one sub then work?

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Protege FDS-12 is a free standing subwoofer series 12'. Offers compact design & premium performance for your media room or home theaters. Buy now!

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Space is less of a concern to me. This is going in a room that has only my stuff in it so I can do what I please. I'm really looking for an upgrade on what I have now. I listen to all music, Classical, Jazz, Country, Classic rock, Alternative, & Electronic. But when I listen to hard hitting Electronic or straight bass music I want my pants to vibrate. Back in the day when I had the def tech towers (which have built in super cubes) and the stand alone super cube cranking the bass would have your pants vibrating. Man I don't know if it was the layout of the house was perfect or what but man even the brick exterior shook it was insane for parties. LOL

 

[bodhi]

Space is less of a concern to me. This is going in a room that has only my stuff in it so I can do what I please. I'm really looking for an upgrade on what I have now. I listen to all music, Classical, Jazz, Country, Classic rock, Alternative, & Electronic. But when I listen to hard hitting Electronic or straight bass music I want my pants to vibrate. Back in the day when I had the def tech towers (which have built in super cubes) and the stand alone super cube cranking the bass would have your pants vibrating. Man I don't know if it was the layout of the house was perfect or what but man even the brick exterior shook it was insane for parties. LOL

How big is the room? Does the sub actually run out of steam? Does the bass stop getting progressively louder when you crank up the volume and sub gain is already near limit? Have you measured what the response actually is?

If you haven't confirmed that the sub output is lacking or that there really is something wrong with the frequency response it's kind of useless to get a bigger box. It might be that you get the result you are after by for example boosting midbass frequencies

 

[chingaling]

How big is the room? Does the sub actually run out of steam? Does the bass stop getting progressively louder when you crank up the volume and sub gain is already near limit? Have you measured what the response actually is?

If you haven't confirmed that the sub output is lacking or that there really is something wrong with the frequency response it's kind of useless to get a bigger box. It might be that you get the result you are after by for example boosting midbass frequencies

The room is 3100 cubic ft. The sub is integrated into the system very well It's not exaggerated or heavy by any means but it does loose steam at high levels anymore. Once it reaches a certain point it gives up. Also the integrated amp is humming like a transmission power line, it's had 14 years of hard use. There used to be a guy (bajawaverunner) on the auction site that had tons of parts for these but I guess all the inventory has since dried up.

 

[bodhi]

The room is 3100 cubic ft. The sub is integrated into the system very well It's not exaggerated or heavy by any means but it does loose steam at high levels anymore. Once it reaches a certain point it gives up. Also the integrated amp is humming like a transmission power line, it's had 14 years of hard use. There used to be a guy (bajawaverunner) on the auction site that had tons of parts for these but I guess all the inventory has since dried up.

Oh. It seems it's time to upgrade and I think you need something a bit beefier for that size of room and what requirements you have for SPL. I have heard same kind of problems many times and usually the sub they have has been good enough but the kind of bass person is looking for is boosted mid bass. But this is not the case with you.

In that situation I guess I would go with dual ported subs. If this was for myself I'd be looking for something like 2x SVS PB-3000 or equal, but you might need something a bit bigger so maybe 2x SVS PB-4000 or 2x Arendal 1723 1V.

 

[GalZohar]

Oh. It seems it's time to upgrade and I think you need something a bit beefier for that size of room and what requirements you have for SPL. I have heard same kind of problems many times and usually the sub they have has been good enough but the kind of bass person is looking for is boosted mid bass. But this is not the case with you.

In that situation I guess I would go with dual ported subs. If this was for myself I'd be looking for something like 2x SVS PB-3000 or equal, but you might need something a bit bigger so maybe 2x SVS PB-4000 or 2x Arendal 1723 1V.

Do I misunderstand the ratings? How would dual PB-3000 have any chance to have insufficient output in a 3100 cubic ft room?

 

[TurtlePaul]

What about a Sub with multiple drivers, say one active and 2 passive drivers, does that solve anything, would one sub then work?

Protege FDS Triple 12” Subwoofer – Multivoltage | Proficient

Protege FDS-12 is a free standing subwoofer series 12'. Offers compact design & premium performance for your media room or home theaters. Buy now!

proficientaudio.com

A passive radiator is not an additional driver. Their website is dishonest in this characterization. A passive radiator works like a port but increases group delay (and roll-off slope) even more because it is or a higher order than a port.

 

[FrantzM]

A lot of rooms are fine with a single sub. Situations are not always the same to make such a statement.

Indeed. Such room are "fine".
"Outstanding" requires at least one more... sub...


Peace.

 

[chingaling]

Oh. It seems it's time to upgrade and I think you need something a bit beefier for that size of room and what requirements you have for SPL. I have heard same kind of problems many times and usually the sub they have has been good enough but the kind of bass person is looking for is boosted mid bass. But this is not the case with you.

In that situation I guess I would go with dual ported subs. If this was for myself I'd be looking for something like 2x SVS PB-3000 or equal, but you might need something a bit bigger so maybe 2x SVS PB-4000 or 2x Arendal 1723 1V.

After looking at the hard data provided by the stat sheet I thought 2 SVS SB13 Ultra or 2 SVS sb 3000. From 40hz up they are very similar it's the from 31hz down the ultra excels. I would prefer used because my budget is going to be around $1800.

 

[FrantzM]

I see a lot of mention of group delay..
How audible is it?
Yes, some subwoofers configurations may have larger group delay than others but .. How audible is it?
measurable? Yes? Audible? What are the audibility threshold, in level and magnitude? Please? Studies to back this up? Please?

Honest question and my skepticism stems from reading those who know a lot more than me...

Peace.

 

[bodhi]

After looking at the hard data provided by the stat sheet I thought 2 SVS SB13 Ultra or 2 SVS sb 3000. From 40hz up they are very similar it's the from 31hz down the ultra excels. I would prefer used because my budget is going to be around $1800.

Then I guess it's the Ultras. I demoed the current version that is SB-4000 and I found absolutely nothing wrong with it. At the end it was too big visually and too powerful for my modest requirements. The room was about 2500 cubic ft.

It's just that it never ceases to amaze me how loud some people like to blast music and nothing wrong with that. Absolutely worst situation is going through the hassle of getting couple big subs set up and then noticing that they fall, even a bit, short of your requirements. It's kind of thing that just keeps bothering you to no end.

 

[Willem]

I would get two subs, but even better one really big one and two smaller ones. This will give you both extension and smoothness. For room eq (if you don't have any yet), a miniDSP 2x4hd and Multi Sub Optimizer.

 

[chingaling]

I would get two subs, but even better one really big one and two smaller ones. This will give you both extension and smoothness. For room eq (if you don't have any yet), a miniDSP 2x4hd and Multi Sub Optimizer.

I like your thinking. Initially I also thought 2 of the SB 3000 and one SB13 ultra but maybe stick with the two ultras for now and down the road add a little something extra. Any ideas?

 

[Willem]

In my book this is not a large room, so I am a bit surprised you crave for this much output. Anyway, I would always prefer more subs over and above fewer larger ones. So I would opt for one large one and one or two smaller ones. If that proves insufficient for mega bass you can always add a second large one rather than another small one.
SVS currently have an outlet sale.

 

[Sancus]

I see a lot of mention of group delay..
How audible is it?
Yes, some subwoofers configurations may have larger group delay than others but .. How audible is it?
measurable? Yes? Audible? What are the audibility threshold, in level and magnitude? Please? Studies to back this up? Please?

We REALLY don't know, haha. There are some studies but nothing really hard and definite. I've looked a lot. It seems like below 20hz it probably doesn't matter at all, but exactly how much it matters above 20hz is an open question.

I don't think it's a critical attribute, but if you can get a sub with good group delay it's likely that the manufacturer did that intentionally so it shows attention to detail. Because it's really easy to let it get out of control especially on ported designs with a tuning around or above 20hz.

FWIW: I didn't buy my Arendals because of group delay measurements, I did it because their finish matches my Genelecs well, they offered a dual opposed option that I could use as an end table, and they seemed to know what they're doing based on their publishing of honest CEA2010 data on their website.

In general, subs are pretty interchangeable.

A single sub can only be equalized properly for one listening location. Fine if that is enough.

This is true, BUT there is one big advantage of 2+ subs even for one listening location. And that is the ability to fill in nulls. You can do that almost perfectly even with just the 1 extra sub and proper placement, as long as the two subs don't share nulls the other one can do the filling with no trouble.

Personally I think people should really just try to have 2 subs at a minimum, it's not that big of a sacrifice and it makes it much more likely you end up with good bass. If you absolutely can't do it in your room, then fair enough, but I would say it's one of the bigger upgrades you can get for the price in any system.

 

[ajd578]

Has anyone measured group delay of svs 3000 micro and/or sb-1000 pro?

 

[DevinCortno]

I like your thinking. Initially I also thought 2 of the SB 3000 and one SB13 ultra but maybe stick with the two ultras for now and down the road add a little something extra. Any ideas?

I sold a single 18 to go to two 12s on this "multi-sub > all" advice that is handed out everywhere on the Internet and it absolutely ruined my system. So I'll say, go for the biggest sub you can fit then add multiples of it as you get the money.

There's no replacement for displacement and SVS, as you go up in cone size, you also get a lot more excursion. I wouldn't bother with anything less than the SB13 Ultra and even then, it's not great either, as it starts to compress above 20hz quite badly at fairly low levels. Distortion is low, I suppose, because of the intrusive limiter. I'd much rather have a single SB16 than multiples of anything else SVS makes.

The little Supercube will be harder to replace than you think, output relative to cabinet size is tremendous on those

 

[chingaling]

I sold a single 18 to go to two 12s on this "multi-sub > all" advice that is handed out everywhere on the Internet and it absolutely ruined my system. So I'll say, go for the biggest sub you can fit then add multiples of it as you get the money.

There's no replacement for displacement and SVS, as you go up in cone size, you also get a lot more excursion. I wouldn't bother with anything less than the SB13 Ultra and even then, it's not great either, as it starts to compress above 20hz quite badly at fairly low levels. Distortion is low, I suppose, because of the intrusive limiter. I'd much rather have a single SB16 than multiples of anything else SVS makes.

The little Supercube will be harder to replace than you think, output relative to cabinet size is tremendous on those

I believe you about the supercube I. It’s really an incredible little sub.
I think I have moved on from the SVS line as I have been doing more researching. Now I’m leaning more toward the Rythmik FV 18 and the
PSA EV 1813. I probably will do as you said and buy one really good big sub and eventually buy another when I save up some more money.

 

[jasoncd]

Has anyone measured group delay of svs 3000 micro and/or sb-1000 pro?

I have 2 SVS 3000 micro. Group delay looks pretty high on my measurements. I am not an expert and fumble around, so…

I do find group delay noticeable, and after spending the last year doing measurements and learning what I can, Im kinda disappointed in the SVS. They do have a lot of other benefits though to be fair.

 

[Sancus]

I have 2 SVS 3000 micro. Group delay looks pretty high on my measurements. I am not an expert and fumble around, so…

I do find group delay noticeable, and after spending the last year doing measurements and learning what I can, Im kinda disappointed in the SVS. They do have a lot of other benefits though to be fair.

In-room group delay measurements mainly show the effect of reflections.

 

[jasoncd]

In-room group delay measurements mainly show the effect of reflections.

My comment was in relation to other subwoofers in the same room/position, measurement windowed. Not sure if that makes it a more valid data point or not.

It’s not the 3000 micro, but Audioholics has group delay measurements for the SB and PB 1000 Pro, if anyone wants to compare vs other subs Audioholics has measured.