Subwoofer Comparison

[sweetchaos]

View attachment 275467

I recently measured 10 subwoofers (including my own DIY subwoofer).

I'm working on a review that will include TBM measurements according to the CEA-2010B standard and various data such as 85 and 95dB SPL@2m, group delay, step response, etc.


To the OP, thanks for starting this thread.

Glad you like it.

Can you also measure using CEA-2010-A method as well? That way, I can include your data as well.

Erin has measured a few subs with CEA-2010-B method, but since the two methods aren’t backwards compatible, I didn’t include his -B data (only included his -A data).
In other words, I really don’t want to duplicate my spreadsheet for -B dataset, lol.

 

[Nuyes]

Glad you like it.

Can you also measure using CEA-2010-A method as well? That way, I can include your data as well.

Erin has measured a few subs with CEA-2010-B method, but since the two methods aren’t backwards compatible, I didn’t include his -B data (only included his -A data).
In other words, I really don’t want to duplicate my spreadsheet for -B dataset, lol.

ugh. Unfortunately, I only measured with -B.

I had to measure 10 subwoofers outdoors in one day, so I didn't have enough battery and time...

 

[kernelpanic]

@sweetchaos Did you see Audioholics measured the Arendal 1723 1S & 1V? Any chance of getting those added?

Arendal Sound 1723 1S & 1V Powered Subwoofers Review

Arendal offers their 13.8” drivers and advanced 800-watt amplifiers in both sealed and vented designs in their 1723 1S and 1V subwoofers. How did they measure up to our performance standards? Read on.

www.audioholics.com

 

[sweetchaos]

Thanks for the reminder.
Added both.

Basically on par with Arendal's provided CEA-2010-A data...which goes to show that Arendal is telling the truth on their website.

 

[sweetchaos]

ugh. Unfortunately, I only measured with -B.

 

[VintageFlanker]

@sweetchaos, there's finally some CTA-2010B data for the KEF KC62:

Fresh From the Bench: KEF KC62 Subwoofer with Uni-Core Driver Technology

Following the review of the KEF LS50 Meta speakers for audioXpress, this article offers a detailed review of the KC62 compact subwoofer, which combines KEF's force-canceling and Uni-Core technologies in a new approach to allow maximizing bass in a minimum space. Masciarotte did the listening and...

audioxpress.com

 

[sweetchaos]

Nice find. Here are the results.

KEF KC62:

Table 1: To quickly examine how the KC62 might fare against the current CTA-2010B standard, we detailed the last decibel reading encountered before distortion failures are registered.

Going forward, I'm going to add the CEA-2010-B standard in a separate table (but only for subs that have this data), and referenced these subs from my CEA-2010-A main table.
That way, I won't be duplicating the -A table and the -B table should be very small and more importantly, won't directly conflict with -A table.
I think that's the best approach to integrate -B standard into my spreadsheet.

 

[Burgunder]

Jamo isn't on my list of considerations when I want a subwoofer.
Typical suspects include (in random order) SVS, Monoprice, HSU, Rythmik, etc.
My spreadsheet shows you the answer. *Wink*

In Europe I would say that the Jamo C912 is a rather good buy, as you can get 2 for the same price as for example an SVS SB1000 and they will give you more or less the same output AND help fight room modes.

 

[TuteTibiImperes]

Looking at the database (great job btw, amazing resource!) it looks like the Hsu VTF-15H Mk2 is one of the absolute best bang of the buck options out there for deep bass output.

I had a chance to meet Dr. Hsu and hear a demo of his products at Axpona 2018 (I want to say it was one of the smaller subs plus the CCB-8 speakers) and I was blown away by how great they sounded, especially for the money.

As I'm designing my HT for my new house which is open floorplan, do y'all think two VTF-15H would be enough for an approximately 7,500 cubic feet space?

 

[sweetchaos]

Looking at the database (great job btw, amazing resource!)

Thanks.

As I'm designing my HT for my new house which is open floorplan, do y'all think two VTF-15H would be enough for an approximately 7,500 cubic feet space?

Good choice. Any single 'extreme' rated sub would be suited for your room size (extreme, >5000ft^3). If you add a second sub, it evens out the seat-to-seat variations and you gain a bit of extra headroom (3-6db depending on frequency).

 

[formdissolve]

Slightly off topic, but what are the upsides and downsides to plugging subwoofers into your amp on the same connector as your speakers? I assume you're massively upping the impedance load on your amp.

 

[TuteTibiImperes]

Slightly off topic, but what are the upsides and downsides to plugging subwoofers into your amp on the same connector as your speakers? I assume you're massively upping the impedance load on your amp.

I know REL is big on that, but I’ve never been a fan.

The big downsides I see are it’s another element in the signal chain between your amp and your speakers, and you’re reliant on whatever crossover there is built into the subwoofer.

Granted, if you’re using a 2-channel amp without bass management it’s probably the best way to go.

If you’re using an AVR, processor, or 2 channel Integrated with bass management just use the dedicated LFE/Sub connector on it and connect your speakers directly.

 

[warpdrive]

Slightly off topic, but what are the upsides and downsides to plugging subwoofers into your amp on the same connector as your speakers? I assume you're massively upping the impedance load on your amp.

You should only use the "high level input/speaker connection" on the sub when you don't have a sub output on your amp. Those outputs are designed for people trying to add a sub to their 2 channel system and have no other way to connect them to the amp. Normally, you would use the sub-pre-out on your AVR and use the bass management of the AVR so that the main speakers and the sub do not overlap each other's frequency coverage

When you use the high level input connections, you are feeding it a full range signal and you have to blend the sub to the speakers by using the sub's crossover, but the mains are still getting a full range signal. A few subs have high-pass filters built in, but the majority don't

There should be no additional load if you use the high level inputs. You are effectively wiring them as a parallel circuit when you use these inputs. If the sub input is high impedance (thousands of ohms), the speakers will still be the main load on the amp. There is no signal degradation (nothing being added to the chain) to the main speakers.

 

[HooStat]

Did you ever add the Harbottle sub I mentioned a few weeks ago (https://www.harbottleaudio.com/)? I don't see it on the spreadsheet. There are 2 models -- C18 and C24. They provide specs for the "level 1" version ("L1") of each and the "level 2" version of the C24. See below.

C24 L1 (top) and L2 (bottom) versions. I suspect that either the 99 or the 98 at 10 Hz for the L2 in the top and bottom panels are a typo.

 

[3125b]

But those aren't CEA 2010-A numbers, where the distortion threshold is 10% for H2 if I remember right?

 

[baron-samedi]

There are also these two from Audioholics that seems to be missing:

Polk Audio HTS 12 Ported Subwoofer Review

The Polk HTS 12 is a 12” ported subwoofer with some innovative tech that allows it to produce clean, tight bass at a retail price of $549 that bellies its specs. Read our review.

www.audioholics.com

BIC Acoustech PL-300 Subwoofer Review: Legit 20Hz Extension for Under $500?!?

We reviewed the BIC Acoustech PL-300 ported subwoofer which claims sub-20Hz bass for less than $500. With a 350-watt amp, 12” driver, and variable tuning, it may be positioned to actually deliver. Read on.

www.audioholics.com

 

[sweetchaos]

There are also these two from Audioholics that seems to be missing:

Polk Audio HTS 12 Ported Subwoofer Review

The Polk HTS 12 is a 12” ported subwoofer with some innovative tech that allows it to produce clean, tight bass at a retail price of $549 that bellies its specs. Read our review.

www.audioholics.com

BIC Acoustech PL-300 Subwoofer Review: Legit 20Hz Extension for Under $500?!?

We reviewed the BIC Acoustech PL-300 ported subwoofer which claims sub-20Hz bass for less than $500. With a 350-watt amp, 12” driver, and variable tuning, it may be positioned to actually deliver. Read on.

www.audioholics.com

Good thing someone is paying attention in class. Missed these somehow. Added now.

 

[3125b]

Not particularly interesting contenders though. The BIC could be ok on sale, the Polk is just lame especially given its size.

 

[LouB]

Thread intent "unsure what to buy" is exactly where I'm at, and not even clear on if I need sub due to my 2 channel amp. I posted a question about it in another thread but this is more of a genaral question on bass management.
If a 2 chanel amp with a dedicated sub out is still sending all freq. to the mains would you be better severed just getting mains that can handle the low freq. ?
It seems if the mains bass isn't very good you'll just end up with a subs good bass mixing with the mains poor bass if the low's are still going to the mains.
Thanks

 

[NTK]

Thread intent "unsure what to buy" is exactly where I'm at, and not even clear on if I need sub due to my 2 channel amp. I posted a question about it in another thread but this is more of a genaral question on bass management.
If a 2 chanel amp with a dedicated sub out is still sending all freq. to the mains would you be better severed just getting mains that can handle the low freq. ?
It seems if the mains bass isn't very good you'll just end up with a subs good bass mixing with the mains poor bass if the low's are still going to the mains.
Thanks

Not only that, because the woofers of the main speakers also have to reproduce the frequencies up to the crossover to the mid range drivers or the tweeters, the upper bass and lower mids will be negatively affected by the large woofer excursions due to having to reproduce the low bass.

That's why it is best to high pass the mains. Unfortunately, you Marantz Model 40 doesn't make it easy to incorporate a high pass filter for the mains. The only way I can think of (that still let you use many of the functionalities of your Model 40) is to insert a miniDSP Flex (or some other suitable devices) between the Model 40's recorder audio out and the power amp in. The miniDSP Flex can high pass the signal and send it back to the power amp of the Model 40, and send the low passed sub signal to the sub(s). However, you will most likely need to use the miniDSP as your volume control (unless the Model 40's volume control also controls recorder audio out).

The much bigger benefit with the miniDSP is that you can use it for room EQ too.