Sabaj D5 vs. SMSL M500 vs. Topping DX7 Pro: measurement comparison

[Island_Kenny]

MSR7s are pretty low end, highly bright headphones...they will make one deaf if used at high volumes (don't mean to be offensive here)...been trying to sell mine for a while now. Anyways, with that pair of headphones, you don't need an external DAC I feel..the M500 is wayyy more expensive than the MSR7s...I'd upgrade the headphones first!

upgrade the cans and get a competent amp before worrying about DAC. but again buy from a retailer with good return policy, DAC hardly make any differences to most listeners

 

[confucius_zero]

MSR7s are pretty low end, highly bright headphones

Relative to taste. Logitech G433 have "low end" prices but measure and sound better than Focal Stellias. I'd know... I have them both infront of me.

 

[VintageFlanker]

MSR7s are pretty low end, highly bright headphones...they will make one deaf if used at high volumes (don't mean to be offensive here)...been trying to sell mine for a while now. Anyways, with that pair of headphones, you don't need an external DAC I feel..the M500 is wayyy more expensive than the MSR7s...I'd upgrade the headphones first!

Haem... Did you notice he mentioned MSR7B and not the first MSR7 generation (still plenty of people who love these anyway). Sure, these are on the bright side... no more than others like Beyerdynamic DTs etc... And no one turned deaf listening to these.

Do you have measurements of the MSR7B, I don't find any.

At last, I don't see the correlation between the DAC and headphones prices...

 

[confucius_zero]

Do you have measurements of the MSR7B, I don't find any.

NC version here but it should sound similar with NC off. I found it was the best of the M series (m50x, m40x, m70x) but yes quite bright

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/audio-technica/ath-msr7nc

 

[mi-fu]

Relative to taste. Logitech G433 have "low end" prices but measure and sound better than Focal Stellias. I'd know... I have them both infront of me.

You serious on this? Now you make me want to try Logitech G433!

 

[VintageFlanker]

NC version here but it should sound similar with NC off. I found it was the best of the M series (m50x, m40x, m70x) but yes quite bright

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/audio-technica/ath-msr7nc

Yep, I know these ones. Still not the same headphones (released way before MSR7B). Notice there is tons of headphones brighter than these on Rtings.

 

[confucius_zero]

You serious on this? Now you make me want to try Logitech G433!

Upgraded them with HM5 pads, then yes they are better than stellia. better low-end extension without the midbass hump., better soundstage too.

 

[nazar_the_brave]

MSR7s are pretty low end, highly bright headphones...they will make one deaf if used at high volumes (don't mean to be offensive here)...been trying to sell mine for a while now. Anyways, with that pair of headphones, you don't need an external DAC I feel..the M500 is wayyy more expensive than the MSR7s...I'd upgrade the headphones first!

Thanks for the advice, but I just recently changed yamaha mt220 to MSR7b and I really like their sound. The MT220 is also very good for my taste, but the AT is still better. And to be honest, I would like to dwell on this, otherwise the pursuit of sound quality will be endless.

 

[NielsMayer]

Regarding the Topping's high output impedance on headphone out courtesy of http://www.ti.com/product/TPA6120A2 ... given that this is a current mode amplifier, does the output impedance even matter?? The use of damping resistors keeps the line output stable (aka less ringing in real-world use) and also prevents short-circuits when plugging in and out headphones.... Don't the various online statements regarding "frequency domain variations caused by relatively high impedance output (say 5-10 ohm) driving relatively low (<50ohm) headphone" apply only to voltage-mode outputs? If the op-amp is "servo-correcting" its output based on the amount of current it is driving then doesn't the 4.7 ohm output impedance not matter? (the measured output impedance being the value of the line-driver's anti-ringing resistor, since the current mode op amp output impedance is theoretically zero)? Any issues would be limitations in its power supply voltage, which would limit the ability to drive (and servo) current into a high impedance load. Low impedance loads, as long as total current capability is high (it is), would't be a problem in this domain.

Discuss...

Description

In applications requiring a high-power output, very high fidelity headphone amplifier, the TPA6120A2 replaces a costly discrete design and allows music, not the amplifier, to be heard. The TPA6120A2’s current-feedback AB amplifier architecture delivers high bandwidth, extremely low noise, and up to 128dB of dynamic range.
Three key features make current-feedback amplifiers outstanding for audio. The first feature is the high slew rate that prevents odd order distortion anomalies. The second feature is current-on-demand at the output that enables the amplifier to respond quickly and linearly when necessary without risk of output distortion. When large amounts of output power are suddenly needed, the amplifier can respond extremely quickly without raising the noise floor of the system and degrading the signal-to-noise ratio. The third feature is the gain-independent frequency response that allows the full bandwidth of the amplifier to be used over a wide range of gain settings.

Oh and here have a typical schematic:
https://web.archive.org/web/2004102...audio.com/hifi_files/qrv/qrv07r0schema_p1.pdf

"Audio purists" might note that the typical "low distortion" configuration of a TPA6120A configuration inverts the output.

So if you're one of those people that thinks it matters, hit the "audio invert" switch somewhere upstream

 

[mmicko]

I think non of these 3 dac in this comparison is using TPA...

 

[NielsMayer]

I think non of these 3 dac in this comparison is using TPA...

Hmmm. I had guessed it did since it has high output impedance like dx7s. But elsewhere I read https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/topping-dx7-pro.24013/reviews

1. • Another great improvement is the headphone amp section, DX7s was no slouch with headphones and could drive almost all of them except for current hungry headphones like low sensitivity planar-magnetic headphones. From a full 1 Watt of power on DX7s, newer device upped the game and delivers a whopping 1.7W in the same 32 Ohm impedance. This power increase was targeted mostly at planars that are mostly current and not voltage driven (as opposed to dynamic driver headphones)
   • There are other smaller improvements, like higher SNR on the balanced out and on the headphone out (by 3dB) and fewer things that only an Audio Precision APx555 will show you (IMD hump is almost gone).
   • DX7 Pro ditched the TPA6120A2 headphone amplifier circuit in favor of the cleaner sounding LME47920 dual op-amps. Since Topping is using two of them it means the headphone amp circuit is fully balanced as is the DAC part."

​

So I guess never mind... Unless the dx7 pro headphone amp is also run in current feedback mode instead of voltage mode.

 

[MediumRare]

FWIW I have "low sensitivity planar-magnetic headphones" and I am running the DX7 Pro on low gain mode. I love loud music but anything over -10dB and I would damage my hearing (further).

 

[mmicko]

I'm still thinking if is worth to upgrade from my DX7s. Difference in line out is big (108 vs 119dB) but I don't use it as DAC or Pream. Therefore for me the only one important difference is in HP output. Ufortunately the DX7s measurement from Amirm was yet not so detailed like the new ones, so I'm not able to do the exact comparison But from Topping specifications (which are usualy correct) there is only 3dB lower noise and higher power in XLR HP output. The 1/4 single ended output even looks better on DX7s...
I'm affraid that nothing from this will be noticable on my HD800 (300ohm) headphones and cost of upgrade (250-300usd) will be waste of money ...

 

[matyst]

Hello, I am new to the forum.

These new DACs look pretty amazing and I am looking to upgrade to DX7 Pro.
At the moment I have Marantz HD-DAC1 and I also had Audiolab M-DAC.
My headphones are Oppo PM-1 and PM-3.

Can you tell me a couple of things, I could not find this information anywhere:
1. is there any relay click when switching data rates/sources ?
2. can the volume be controlled by software when connected via USB (e.g. when using M-DAC with Audirvana on Mac the volume on the DAC can be changed with volume slider/keys, and vice versa turning the volume knob on the DAC is reflected in the software)

How do you think the headphone amp section of DX7 Pro would compare with HD-DAC1 and M-DAC ?

Many thanks for your help

 

[mmicko]

How do you think the headphone amp section of DX7 Pro would compare with HD-DAC1 and M-DAC ?

Many thanks for your help

Not sure if you HD-DAC1 is same (or similar) to HD-AMP1 which Amirm measured here

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...tz-hd-amp1-dac-and-integrated-amplifier.6341/

But if we would expect similar result, than Topping DX7 Pro will be much better in both DAC and HP amp outputs.

 

[matyst]

Not sure if you HD-DAC1 is same (or similar) to HD-AMP1 which Amirm measured here

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...tz-hd-amp1-dac-and-integrated-amplifier.6341/

But if we would expect similar result, than Topping DX7 Pro will be much better in both DAC and HP amp outputs.

I saw the HD-AMP1 results and it does not look too good but HD-DAC1 is a different design based on Cirrus Logic CS4398 rather than Sabre ES9010KM2, and the headphone amp section is quite good.

How about the software volume control and relay clicking in DX7 Pro ?

 

[RickSanchez]

Hello, I am new to the forum.

Can you tell me a couple of things, I could not find this information anywhere:
1. is there any relay click when switching data rates/sources ?
2. can the volume be controlled by software when connected via USB (e.g. when using M-DAC with Audirvana on Mac the volume on the DAC can be changed with volume slider/keys, and vice versa turning the volume knob on the DAC is reflected in the software)

How do you think the headphone amp section of DX7 Pro would compare with HD-DAC1 and M-DAC ?

Many thanks for your help

Welcome to ASR.

As for your questions #1 and #2, if you're not finding answers on this thread I'd suggest posting your questions to the specific product threads. For example:

• ASR review + measurements: Sabaj D5 | SMSL M500 | Topping DX7 Pro
• Also: Sabaj D5 owner's thread | Topping DX7 Pro thread

I say that because you may find more owners on those threads; this thread is for measurement comparison, and it probably has more people who are researching these products but don't own one of them yet.

As for your question about how the DX7 Pro would compare with HD-DAC1 and M-DAC: that's tough to say without measurements. You can always add your request here. Otherwise you may be able to hunt around on the internet to find some basic measurements, specifically power and output impedance. From the information Amir provided we know those values for the DX7 Pro:

• 1/4 out impedance: 6.2 Ohm. (Not sure if this is important for planar magnetics like yours? It is an issue for low impedance dynamic headphones.)
• Power vs. distortion (1/4 out | 300 Ohm): L = 29mw | H =117mw
• Power vs. distortion (1/4 out | 33 Ohm): L = 196mw | H = 637mw
• Power vs. distortion (XLR out | 50 Ohm): 1.6 watts

It's possible the manufacturers might provide you with some of this info if you ask their respective Support teams.

 

[MediumRare]

1. is there any relay click when switching data rates/sources ?

All the controls (including changing output from RCA to XLR, inputs, etc) are completely silent with an amp set to output 20 watts sustained. So SILENT.

 

[matyst]

Welcome to ASR.

As for your questions #1 and #2, if you're not finding answers on this thread I'd suggest posting your questions to the specific product threads. For example:

• ASR review + measurements: Sabaj D5 | SMSL M500 | Topping DX7 Pro
• Also: Sabaj D5 owner's thread | Topping DX7 Pro thread

I say that because you may find more owners on those threads; this thread is for measurement comparison, and it probably has more people who are researching these products but don't own one of them yet.

As for your question about how the DX7 Pro would compare with HD-DAC1 and M-DAC: that's tough to say without measurements. You can always add your request here. Otherwise you may be able to hunt around on the internet to find some basic measurements, specifically power and output impedance. From the information Amir provided we know those values for the DX7 Pro:

• 1/4 out impedance: 6.2 Ohm. (Not sure if this is important for planar magnetics like yours? It is an issue for low impedance dynamic headphones.)
• Power vs. distortion (1/4 out | 300 Ohm): L = 29mw | H =117mw
• Power vs. distortion (1/4 out | 33 Ohm): L = 196mw | H = 637mw
• Power vs. distortion (XLR out | 50 Ohm): 1.6 watts

It's possible the manufacturers might provide you with some of this info if you ask their respective Support teams.

Thanks ! I will ask on Dx7 Pro thread.

 

[TrueBlue]

Just don't go to the max then.

Does lowering the digital volume on the DAC affects the sound quality?