Review and Measurements of Yamaha RX-A1080 AVR

[Ataraxia]

@GrimSurfer

Thanks for the evaluation. I have toyed with different amount of angles and toe in and distances from the walls both R3's and my chair. I also have had the subs in different positions. I've found toe in is very time consuming to get them pointed symmetrically and I often find the phantom center off after running YPAO when I toe in.

I've got it dialed in great right now with zero toe in and excellent to my newbie audiophile ears (BTW I have slight tinnitus and a 8-9Khz notch hearing degradation courtesy of the USMC rifle range and working in aviation maintenance for ~ 25 years). The different pictures above show different configurations at different points in time. What I have not done since I am barely capable of running REW yet is taken measurements with different configurations.

I will continue to learn REW, etc. and adjust placement, etc... I'm hoping to be out of this apt soon anyway.

 

[Ataraxia]

So, have any of you audiophiles personally heard the Yamaha Aventage AVR series and compared it to setups, integrated's or separates, so you are in a position to review your impressions of the audible differences better amplification can make?

My system has:

1) Good/Great imaging and sound stage. However seems sometime there's instrument separation but in the same location, if that makes any sense. Also you never really know if it's the recording doing that because on some there is great image separation.
2) Great transparency of different quality recordings. The USB port on the front with FLAC files is audibly better than Tidal hi-fi which is in itself very good)
3) Good/great instrument separation.
4) Increased clarity and separation after running YPAO. (still good before too)
5) Excellent phantom center locked beteen speakers when properly set up.

Thanks.

 

[Willem]

I would not worry unduly about the null. It is a pity, but nulls are not nearly as audible as peaks. And unfortunately room correction will not do much. You can pump more energy into that frequency range, but it will just disappear into that black hole until your amplifer and/or speaker pack die under the stress. The only thing that will really help is moving the speakers. Howeer, I would focus on getting rid of the peaks.

 

[Julf]

So, have any of you audiophiles personally heard the Yamaha Aventage AVR series and compared it to setups, integrated's or separates, so you are in a position to review your impressions of the audible differences better amplification can make?

This is probably not the best forum if you want random subjective opinions.

 

[raif71]

So, have any of you audiophiles personally heard the Yamaha Aventage AVR series and compared it to setups, integrated's or separates, so you are in a position to review your impressions of the audible differences better amplification can make?

My system has:

1) Good/Great imaging and sound stage. However seems sometime there's instrument separation but in the same location, if that makes any sense. Also you never really know if it's the recording doing that because on some there is great image separation.
2) Great transparency of different quality recordings. The USB port on the front with FLAC files is audibly better than Tidal hi-fi which is in itself very good)
3) Good/great instrument separation.
4) Increased clarity and separation after running YPAO. (still good before too)
5) Excellent phantom center locked beteen speakers when properly set up.

Thanks.

I'm using Yamaha rx series (rx-v577) from 7 years back. Aventage series too rich for me . I ran YPAO when the setup was 5.1. Now it is 3.1. Didn't bother to run it again. Don't even know where the mic is anymore. Haha. Anyways, even before I ran YPAO, I found the setup and Yamaha's sound especially to be pleasing, good imaging and powerful (if I crank the volume that is...at most I'm at 70% with average 60%). That is when I'm playing video files and watching tv but playing music even surround files and using discs, the sound is slightly louder (wonder why) so on average the volume will be at 50%.

I have setup the Yamaha to use dsp (maybe this is why the sound is louder) whenever I play stereo audio files unless it detects ac3/dts , then it is in direct mode. I don't subscribe to any streaming services and only use audio files on media player, DAP or BD player. Currently using more of DAP as I can easily navigate and choose the audio files without switching on the TV. The DAP is connected to the Yamaha via coax cable. I believe my Yamaha model is using the Burr-Brown DAC. Overall, I'm pleased with my Yamaha.

 

[Ataraxia]

This is probably not the best forum if you want random subjective opinions.

I'm in agreement with the objective measurements being taken here for what they are. Repeatable measurable documented comparisons... I'm just wondering how much better I can improve my R3's if for example, get a Benchmark amp and run it with a miniDSPHD. I'd probably buy Lyngdorf but not sure if I want to spend that kind of money. Maybe, or just do an Arcam SA30 with Dirac. Right now if I have a weak link for 2 channel listening it is the amplification. If I upgrade my amplification next I will then upgrade my speakers at some point.

 

[Ataraxia]

I'm using Yamaha rx series (rx-v577) from 7 years back. Aventage series too rich for me . I ran YPAO when the setup was 5.1. Now it is 3.1. Didn't bother to run it again. Don't even know where the mic is anymore. Haha. Anyways, even before I ran YPAO, I found the setup and Yamaha's sound especially to be pleasing, good imaging and powerful (if I crank the volume that is...at most I'm at 70% with average 60%). That is when I'm playing video files and watching tv but playing music even surround files and using discs, the sound is slightly louder (wonder why) so on average the volume will be at 50%.

I have setup the Yamaha to use dsp (maybe this is why the sound is louder) whenever I play stereo audio files unless it detects ac3/dts , then it is in direct mode. I don't subscribe to any streaming services and only use audio files on media player, DAP or BD player. Currently using more of DAP as I can easily navigate and choose the audio files without switching on the TV. The DAP is connected to the Yamaha via coax cable. I believe my Yamaha model is using the Burr-Brown DAC. Overall, I'm pleased with my Yamaha.

I think Yamaha amplification is underrated. I'm sure there's much better amplification both audibly and inaudibly measured but making the decision within a budget constraint; is the marginal benefit greater than the marginal cost? That being said I do see upgrading my amplification at some point in preparation for a speaker upgrade.... I think Dirac would make the most difference from what I've researched.

 

[raif71]

This is probably not the best forum if you want random subjective opinions.

Au contraire , I've found several people expressing subjective opinions though I'm sure the main audience here are expecting objective views. I admire what this site aspires to be and how some people here seems to contend with people like me who can be subjective at times .

 

[RichB]

Au contraire , I've found several people expressing subjective opinions though I'm sure the main audience here are expecting objective views. I admire what this site aspires to be and how some people here seems to contend with people like me who can be subjective at times .

That is true. There are threads concerning audibility and I suspect that there is no agreement on the minimum SINAD required for transparency. I think it is reasonable to consider the goal of reproducing the source resolution. For me, CD audio (44.1/16) 96 dB is a reasonable minimum. For HD Audio, greater, perhaps the threshold of human hearing is the goal (though not necessarily required).

I don't believe that each test represents the worst case performance of every design, so I like to have some performance "headroom" but it is important to conduct the same tests on multiple components to establish a basis for comparison.

I have done some SBTs with my room, my (and friends) ears, and developed opinions that have been used for buying decisions. I don't mind sharing my opinions but do not recommend anyone buy anything without really understanding their preferences, goals, and budget.

I don't think anyone can really answer the oft asked question "Will I hear a difference...?". Beware of anyone who does.

- Rich

 

[DonH56]

So, have any of you audiophiles personally heard the Yamaha Aventage AVR series and compared it to setups, integrated's or separates, so you are in a position to review your impressions of the audible differences better amplification can make?

My system has:

1) Good/Great imaging and sound stage. However seems sometime there's instrument separation but in the same location, if that makes any sense. Also you never really know if it's the recording doing that because on some there is great image separation.
2) Great transparency of different quality recordings. The USB port on the front with FLAC files is audibly better than Tidal hi-fi which is in itself very good)
3) Good/great instrument separation.
4) Increased clarity and separation after running YPAO. (still good before too)
5) Excellent phantom center locked beteen speakers when properly set up.

Thanks.

Objective/subjective data debate aside, this is probably not the best thread to discuss speaker placement or other optimizations since it is ostensibly (ha!) focused on the AVR itself. I'd suggest a new thread both to help keep this one more focused (probably too late) and to better address your concerns. In fact, a thread on speaker placement might itself be worthwhile.

Says the guy who wandered off trying to figure out what the heck another poster meant by "individual amplifiers"...

 

[GTsmokeya84]

As I have this AVR and I am currently running Kef R5's and matching center I have been thinking of getting a separate amp to run from the pre-outs in either 3ch or 5ch. I know Emotiva makes a 5ch amp (A-5175) which is priced right in my range. I think someone earlier in this thread said the Pre-outs are not great on this unit, I just cannot remember and find why. I want my movies loud and on the rare occasion I listen to music in that room, I have a dedicated system for music thats why I currently have an AVR running my loft system.

 

[openvista]

@GTsmokeya84 I think this model won't output much more than 1.5V thru the pre outs. Also, there's no way to deactivate the internal amps, so you don't get the benefit of a quieter signal path by using it as a pre-amp only.

To be honest, I was pretty discouraged after reading this review. Initially, I was resolved to return my newly shipped RX-A1080 (arrived 1 day after the review posted). Ultimately, I decided to unbox it and that if I didn't like it for whatever reason, I could return it within 30 days. I must say after spending a few days getting it dialed in, I really enjoy it. I haven't had a single issue with it. I've cranked it way up for music and movies, including multi-hour listening sessions. No shutdowns to report. Full disclosure: my speakers all run in the low to mid 90s in sensitivity, are 8 ohms, and well behaved. YMMV.

Subjectively speaking, I was expecting a poor showing. But I was pleasantly surprised to find that it's an improvement over the Pioneer SC-1223-K, my previous AVR, in every way.

I discovered an undocumented feature. Yesterday I listened to Magnificat, the Norwegian classical album that was up for a Grammy in engineering in 2015. I have it in DSD128 multichannel on a thumb drive. My Sony BD player will output that in native DSD via HDMI and, despite the user manual saying only 2 channel DSD is supported, the AVR will decode it in DSD in 5.1 surround (although not if I plug the thumb drive directly into the 1080; then it will only play 2 channel DSD64/128 files). I verified the DSD format through the information screen on the receiver. By the way, it's a transcendent recording (available from nativedsd.com) that I would recommend to anyone even if classical isn't your primary genre of interest.

 

[openvista]

Also, speaking of bonus features, Amazon Music Unlimited HD reports casting to my AVR in 24 bits, 48 kHz sampling (from my iPhone 8) when a "UHD" file plays. I read somewhere that Apple cryptically stated that "various bit depths" are supported in Airplay 2. So does this mean supporting devices receive 24/48 streams?

 

[Juhazi]

Like raif71, I've been using only RX-V series AVRs for 18 years, not the Aventage RX-A. I fail to see the added value/performnce they would give. Now it looks like the V-series using Burr-Brown dacs gives more solid performance. The amps are on same level like all dsp-features too. The problem of low pre-out signal level seems to be the norm wtih all AVRs, but I can live with it despite I use active mains speakers (just means reduced SNR which is not an issue to me).

I have used also some Onkyo and Denon AVRs, but with problems - difficult UI and technical problems with just 2-3 year old units (hum and buzz, missing sub line out signal) The reason for having had several units is that I have three systems at home and some more at my children's apartments!

Only one Yamaha RX-V was inferior, the lowest model had too little power, but it has served my sister well for some 5 years now.
My present unit is RX-V685 which costed 580€ last summer. RX-V630 served me for 18 years! My first Yammy was CR-820 in 1980 and it served me for 22 years!

 

[Dimitrov]

That is true. There are threads concerning audibility and I suspect that there is no agreement on the minimum SINAD required for transparency. I think it is reasonable to consider the goal of reproducing the source resolution. For me, CD audio (44.1/16) 96 dB is a reasonable minimum. For HD Audio, greater, perhaps the threshold of human hearing is the goal (though not necessarily required).

I don't believe that each test represents the worst case performance of every design, so I like to have some performance "headroom" but it is important to conduct the same tests on multiple components to establish a basis for comparison.

I have done some SBTs with my room, my (and friends) ears, and developed opinions that have been used for buying decisions. I don't mind sharing my opinions but do not recommend anyone buy anything without really understanding their preferences, goals, and budget.

I don't think anyone can really answer the oft asked question "Will I hear a difference...?". Beware of anyone who does.

- Rich

It would be funny if the manufacturers knew all along that these ****** measurements were still good enough to be audibly transparent, so putting in more effort to improve performance probably will only appease the measurementphiles.

What we really need is a comprehensive AVR vs Integrated blind shootout test- THAT (IMO) will yield more useful information on the audibility question but sadly I don't see anyone doing this and I don't think such testing is forthcoming.

 

[Juhazi]

We have this thread about audibility
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-thresholds-of-amp-and-dac-measurements.5734/

 

[Krunok]

And we have Toole's words about speakers distortion audibility and distortion perspecitve speakers vs amps vs DACs.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tting-thd-in-the-perspective.9085/post-232214

 

[Ataraxia]

How do these measurements relate to the front USB input or using the streamer services like Tidal through ethernet connected internet? I don't know if it's different (should be it seems) than the tested inputs HDMI, Toslink, analog. Thanks

 

[RichB]

It would be funny if the manufacturers knew all along that these ****** measurements were still good enough to be audibly transparent, so putting in more effort to improve performance probably will only appease the measurementphiles.

What we really need is a comprehensive AVR vs Integrated blind shootout test- THAT (IMO) will yield more useful information on the audibility question but sadly I don't see anyone doing this and I don't think such testing is forthcoming.

I suppose this theory means that manufacturers are not interested in selling product based on objective performance measurements. Manufacturers are focusing on treating these devices as network devices and those features are the ones that sell. They recognize that reviews, at best, provide cursory measurements so that matters less.
ASR has started to measure AVP/AVRs so that may change. As a result, It may get harder to sell a $6000 AVR that performs worse than a $100 DAC. I shall shed no tears

Regarding a blind shootout. Objectively this proves nothing.
Let's take both outcomes.

1) No signification difference is found. OK, this like any test has methodology, environment, speakers, and listeners included in the determination. This does not mean there is no difference with different methodology, speakers, and listeners.

2) Most find a difference. Great, but similarly this does not mean that this product is not transparent for an individuals system, room, and listening habits.

Therefore, from a consumer view, whatever happens in a test may not prove that these components will perform inaudibly different in their system.

Harman recognizes this issue so does many DBT's to provide statistical significance that enables them to build speakers which correlate with user preference. Thankfully, preference coincides with accurate "flat" speakers.

I like to take the consumer view, which product suites an individual's needs.
My personal decision has been to spend (IMO) considerable funds on my system but focusing on products that have measurable benefits as opposed to marketing fluff. Companies that focus on quality engineering principles earn my dollars.

If that makes me a "measurementphile", so be it. I'd rather be that than a "Marketingphile"

- Rich

 

[amirm]

How do these measurements relate to the front USB input or using the streamer services like Tidal through ethernet connected internet? I don't know if it's different (should be it seems) than the tested inputs HDMI, Toslink, analog. Thanks

I did not test either so hard to say.