Review and Measurements of Yamaha RX-A1080 AVR

[Ataraxia]

Keep in mind that AVRs (and related integrated 2 channel amp such as Yamaha's A-S801) can have two separate DACs for different inputs. As far as I know, for HDMI inputs, the main and better DACs such as the AK4458 and ES9006 are used.

If you use the front USB input, Ethernet (network streaming), or even optical and coax, then all bets are off and the signal may be routed through the lower grade DACs such as the PCM5100 or the slightly better PCM5101 in the integrated amp such as the Yamaha A-S801. For Z2/Z3, chance is good that the lesser DAC would be used, such as the case for D&M, Onkyo and Yamaha's.

In some cases, such as Yamaha's, even for the main zone, they would use two different ones, the better DAC for the main 7 channels and a slightly lower grade one for the remaining channels. For example: the flag ship RX-A3080 has the Sabre ES9026 Pro for the main 7 channels, and the ES9007S (same as the 9006) for the remaining channels, and then mostly the PCM5101 for the Z2/3. 3 different DACs!! It's all about cost, I assume..

Thanks for the detailed response. What I know is streaming Tidal hi-fi sounds extremely good and the USB input with FLAC sounds noticeably better, especially with 24/48+ recordings. I of course assumed I am using the ESS DAC's (dual in the A2080). That's the only one they market in the main description. If I'm not using the better DAC chip with streaming and USB I don't know what to say other than I'm loving the audio quality with Tidal Hi-Fi and USB FLAC. I did try a CD one time just for kicks from an old Sony DVD player optical to the A2080 and it was not even close to Tidal hi-fi and USB FLAC.

This thread piques my interest because if my AVR isn't a very good hi-fi amp I wold really like to buy a better on for 2-channel.

 

[Ataraxia]

What smoothing did you apply and whats the XO set to? If 1/12 smoothing, and if XO is below 80 Hz, I am sure it will look much better if you set XO to 100 or even 110 Hz (yes I know how low the R3 can go, but....)

For troubleshooting/improving purposes, I would suggest no smoothing, but limit the range to say below 350 Hz, or use 1/48, or even 1/24th smoothing so we can see better the areas to improve.

I have numerous plots for my speakers and they are in two different rooms, Audyssey XT32 is able to do a very good job for the range 10-200 Hz, say within +/- 2.3 to 3 dB with 1/24 smoothing if I exclude one of two huge dips due to room modes. Nothing can do anything about those big dips other than placements, you can try to crawl the two subs side way, back and forth to try minimizing the dips. Dirac Live, or not wouldn't make much different to those, may be a few dB..

I was prompted to keep on topic with AVR related stuff. I'll do some measurements again eventually and take this into account. Most of my measurements were VAR smoothing.

 

[scooter]

higher models such as the 1060/2060 schematics show an analog direct path to the volume control IC, but it doesn't show how it is selected

Can you please share schematic diagrams? I'd like to see how it works. Mine also has DIRECT function but I'm not able to find service manuals for it.

 

[peng]

Can you please share schematic diagrams? I'd like to see how it works. Mine also has DIRECT function but I'm not able to find service manuals for it.

I am not sure if it is appropriate to do so. The service manuals are publicly available for purchase, if I own a Yamaha I would definitely buy it. The one for the Marantz AV8805 was downloadable for free from the Marantz site for a while, so I guess someone might feel free to post something for that one. I am not aware of any Yamaha's ones are for free download. So I can only say D&M's must be done by quiet relays or SS switches (can't hear "click" pressing the button). Why not email Yamaha directly?

 

[peng]

I was prompted to keep on topic with AVR related stuff. I'll do some measurements again eventually and take this into account. Most of my measurements were VAR smoothing.

Thanks, that explains why it looked so smooth.

 

[peng]

Thanks for the detailed response. What I know is streaming Tidal hi-fi sounds extremely good and the USB input with FLAC sounds noticeably better, especially with 24/48+ recordings. I of course assumed I am using the ESS DAC's (dual in the A2080). That's the only one they market in the main description. If I'm not using the better DAC chip with streaming and USB I don't know what to say other than I'm loving the audio quality with Tidal Hi-Fi and USB FLAC. I did try a CD one time just for kicks from an old Sony DVD player optical to the A2080 and it was not even close to Tidal hi-fi and USB FLAC.

This thread piques my interest because if my AVR isn't a very good hi-fi amp I wold really like to buy a better on for 2-channel.

Again, I don't really know if streaming uses the same DACs for Z2 and Z3. I am just saying there are two different DACs used in the A2060, and for the flagship 3080, there are likely 3 (different types) in total, as they use two different ones for the main zone. I highly doubt a lot of people can tell the difference between the ES9026 and PCM5101 anyway in a blind test. I believe people hear better sound mostly because of the quality of the recording/mastering, little to do with the DACs and the media formats, i.e. flac, wave, dsd etc.. I have CDs that sound much better than some my best SACDs and vice versa.

 

[SynthesisCinema]

First of all thank you @amirm for taking time to make this test happen! Waited this one and prayed it would have been better as i have always owned Yamaha receivers which have offered superior reliability and i have to say VERY enjoyable moments with movies. It`s very tough to get idea how these measurements would be seen vs. real life use with movies as i don`t think anyone would say these are bad sounding receivers. Sure it hurts to buy something knowing it could measure much better. But people have done that for years with B&W speakers example.

It would also be intresting to see A2080 or A3080 ( 18,000uF 71V capacitors) which have much beefier amplification and better DAC (9026 Pro?), could they have done things better with flaghship model. Still want to see some midrange Denons are they any better. Onkyo and Pioneer are same company, likely won´t be different from the Pioneers you measured. Arcams will be intresting as they cost so much, the Poland measurement/review for AVR550 showed it went to protection when using 4ohm loads and global crossovers for such expensive unit is uhm...

I don´t have much knowledge, but if someone is intrested and could compare has anything changed to worse here is measurements for Aventage A1010 model which is basically same as this A1080 on paper at least (power output numbers are same for both).
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/rx-a1010/rx-a1010-measurements

These days features go ahead of everything it seems! We could see that in cheap Aventage model A860 (899$) model which had smaller powersupply with 71V 8,200uF Caps x 2 VS the older 400$ costing RX-V659 model which had larger IE core transformer with 71V 12,000uF Caps x 2.

Thanks again!

 

[Ataraxia]

First of all thank you @amirm for taking time to make this test happen! Waited this one and prayed it would have been better as i have always owned Yamaha receivers which have offered superior reliability and i have to say VERY enjoyable moments with movies. It`s very tough to get idea how these measurements would be seen vs. real life use with movies as i don`t think anyone would say these are bad sounding receivers. Sure it hurts to buy something knowing it could measure much better. But people have done that for years with B&W speakers example.

It would also be intresting to see A2080 or A3080 ( 18,000uF 71V capacitors) which have much beefier amplification and better DAC (9026 Pro?), could they have done things better with flaghship model. Still want to see some midrange Denons are they any better. Onkyo and Pioneer are same company, likely won´t be different from the Pioneers you measured. Arcams will be intresting as they cost so much, the Poland measurement/review for AVR550 showed it went to protection when using 4ohm loads and global crossovers for such expensive unit is uhm...

Not sure if the A2080 or A3080 measures hi-fi but my A2080 definitely sounds hi-fi.

 

[peng]

First of all thank you @amirm for taking time to make this test happen! Waited this one and prayed it would have been better as i have always owned Yamaha receivers which have offered superior reliability and i have to say VERY enjoyable moments with movies. It`s very tough to get idea how these measurements would be seen vs. real life use with movies as i don`t think anyone would say these are bad sounding receivers. Sure it hurts to buy something knowing it could measure much better. But people have done that for years with B&W speakers example.

It would also be intresting to see A2080 or A3080 ( 18,000uF 71V capacitors) which have much beefier amplification and better DAC (9026 Pro?), could they have done things better with flaghship model. Still want to see some midrange Denons are they any better. Onkyo and Pioneer are same company, likely won´t be different from the Pioneers you measured. Arcams will be intresting as they cost so much, the Poland measurement/review for AVR550 showed it went to protection when using 4ohm loads and global crossovers for such expensive unit is uhm...

I don´t have much knowledge, but if someone is intrested and could compare has anything changed to worse here is measurements for Aventage A1010 model which is basically same as this A1080 on paper at least (power output numbers are same for both).
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/rx-a1010/rx-a1010-measurements

These days features go ahead of everything it seems! We could see that in cheap Aventage model A860 (899$) model which had smaller powersupply with 71V 8,200uF Caps x 2 VS the older 400$ costing RX-V659 model which had larger IE core transformer with 71V 12,000uF Caps x 2.

Thanks again!

The A2080 has the ES9007S, that appears to have the same spec as the ES9006S. The A3080 is the one that has the ES9026Pro for the main 7 main channels and the ES9007S for the remaining channels.

The ES9006/7S is 5 dB better in DR (120 vs 115 dB) than the mid range Denon/Marantz's AK4458, but is 5 dB (-102 vs -107 dB) worse than the AK4458 in THD+N. If I were to pick my poison between the two DAC, I would take the D&M's AK4458 for lower THD+N though I highly doubt I can hear a difference between the two even if implemented the same way.

 

[Lotus97]

AVR's are not worth the price, I bought a Yamaha RX 1070 two years ago, it couldn't even power up my klipch satellite speakers, I returned it the next day. I even tried to use its Pre Outs to my Anthem amp and it was still horrible, the pre out section in todays AVR's is worse than pre-out boxes on amazon that you see for $15, disturbing.

And that is the problem, the pre out section in today's AVR is a joke, you can use a $10k power amp and you still get poor sound, they don't want you to use the AVR this way, maybe for insurance reasons in case you blow your speakers and blame the AVR, who knows.

 

[scooter]

@DonH56 let me kindly draw your attention my distant mate, I know it is too late now but as it is said - better late than never.
I was stating a full nonsense, such as:

What you have described is indeed true but applies only if we were playing just a single tone with definite and constant frequency, which could be blocked or passed by the crossover elements. But music is a complex mix of all various frequencies, vocals, instruments, etc... This means that mostly none of the drivers are fully "blocked" by crossover during a playback, there will be a simultaneous hit in on the drums, screaming vocals and upper frequencies, meaning that during those moments woofer, midrange and tweeter drivers will be "open" to output terminals, where they're connected in parallel and summing their impedance.

And you were absolutely right when saying:

If you separate the terminals for bi-amping, then below the tweeter's frequency range, the crossover blocks all LF signals to the tweeter. Now the tweeter terminals look like an open to the amplifier at low frequencies. Similarly, signals above the woofer's frequency range are blocked by the LPF, so high frequencies see an "open" when driving the woofer terminals. Except right at the crossover region they are never really in parallel, and the crossover is rolling off in each direction so ideally the impedance is flat when both terminals are driven (shorted).

At that moment it was hard for me to imagine and understand how various sound waves and corresponding frequency signals interact with each other, I thought there were separate plots of all signals with various amplitudes and frequency at a given moment of time. Now I've realized that all signals (sound waves) combine and sum, forming one complex signal instead. Meaning that splitting the crossovers will not change (increase as I was shouting ) total impedance seeing by amplifiers. At every microsecond there will be only one specific signal with definite amplitude and frequency which is going to be always blocked or passed by either HPF or LPF, creating something like "Total Impedance Masking" effect.
This simple picture helped me so much to realize this:

So shortly - THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE!

 

[Theriverlethe]

Thanks for the detailed response. What I know is streaming Tidal hi-fi sounds extremely good and the USB input with FLAC sounds noticeably better, especially with 24/48+ recordings. I of course assumed I am using the ESS DAC's (dual in the A2080). That's the only one they market in the main description. If I'm not using the better DAC chip with streaming and USB I don't know what to say other than I'm loving the audio quality with Tidal Hi-Fi and USB FLAC. I did try a CD one time just for kicks from an old Sony DVD player optical to the A2080 and it was not even close to Tidal hi-fi and USB FLAC.

This thread piques my interest because if my AVR isn't a very good hi-fi amp I wold really like to buy a better on for 2-channel.

The perceived differences are almost certainly the result of volume difference or sighted bias.

 

[RichB]

The perceived differences are almost certainly the result of volume difference or sighted bias.

I recently subscribed to QOBUZ when they offered $15 CD+ quality streaming. The app sounds very good and bit brighter than the same service streamed via Roon. There are too many variables it takes some effort to establish a cause, more than I have right now.

Science does not preclude observation as a starting point, a point that seems lost by the some factions.

- Rich

 

[Theriverlethe]

I recently subscribed to QOBUZ when they offered $15 CD+ quality streaming. The app sounds very good and bit brighter than the same service streamed via Roon. There are too many variables it takes some effort to establish a cause, more than I have right now.

Science does not preclude observation as a starting point, a point that seems lost by the some factions.

- Rich

No, but when the observation contradicts generally accepted physics, biology, and psychology, it requires evidence to be accepted. Of course, we can’t rule out one or more parties in the marketplace engaging in deliberate shenanigans or idiotic mistakes.

 

[GTsmokeya84]

So my 1080 AVR has had the subwoofer pre-outs act up the last few months. I thought it was my subs since they are a few years older and even replaced the cables and for random reasons the subs would work. Now the other night one worked (I am using 2 both pre outs) and than none worked middle of the movie. I kept the same new cable I am using and the subs work on other systems so not sure whats going on but unplugging the unit for a while and resetting it has not helped. I think the AVR just broke on me. Any other suggestions? My unit is just over a year old. I also do not use this setup often so thats why it took so long to diagnose and be where I am now.

 

[scooter]

Just some suggestions, maybe will help...
Are your subs equipped with auto standby function? Mine is Yamaha NS-SW300 and it has two sensitivity settings for auto standby, if it is set to low and AVR volume at moderate movie listening level, then there is a chance that it won't turn on at all (or switches off automatically if it was on in the beginning but then you decreased the volume).
Or maybe subwoofer channel gain level is set too low in AVR.
You mentioned that you are using sub preouts for connection (and LFE input ports on the subwoofer side), usually most of AVRs switch off all DSP effects when you activate PURE DIRECT function, no more LFE signal is sent to sub preouts and only 2 front channels remain. But I think you'd have mentioned this if it was a case.

 

[Platypus]

Hi All, first post & been enjoying the discussions here for a while!

I noticed that the current Yamaha AVR's with a Pure Direct function have a (Pure Direct Mode) setting in the Sound menu which enables the video output to be turned off. By default this parameter is set to 'Auto' which means that a video image is always output when Pure Direct is selected (even if no video signal is input, the yamaha screen saver or a grey screen is output).

Amirm, when you did the noise tests, do you recall how this setting was configured? It may be academic to the result, although it seems interesting they have this extra option.

Cheers

 

[Abe_W]

Is the amplifier on this receiver class ab?

 

[amirm]

It is.

 

[amirm]

It is also available for sale if anyone is interested. It will help buy more speakers to test.