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Monoprice HTP-1 Home Theater Processor Review

Sal1950

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BTW, It would be really great to get a current production unit in for testing.
I think the DAC chip market has about shaken itself out now and it's very
relavant to see where this potenially very good processor has ended up?
Same deal for the AVR lineup from D-M and the other big guys.
Just a thought. ;)
 

GXAlan

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BTW, It would be really great to get a current production unit in for testing.
I think the DAC chip market has about shaken itself out now and it's very
relavant to see where this potenially very good processor has ended up?
Same deal for the AVR lineup from D-M and the other big guys.
Just a thought. ;)

I just bought one -- I'll run some measurements when it arrives next week.
 

Sal1950

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laurelkurt

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Doesn't seem to be, only the 8 channel amps are there AFAIK :(
I spoke too soon. They took my payment but sold it out from under me! It was gonna be my BD present to myself. I wonder if GXAlan got mine as he just posted that he bought one?

Also their email to me said it was a discontinued product. I guess I'll be buying a Marantz AVP from AC4less or maybe an SHD. Sheesh!
 

Sal1950

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I spoke too soon. They took my payment but sold it out from under me! It was gonna be my BD present to myself. I wonder if GXAlan got mine as he just posted that he bought one?
That sucks big time. :(
 

GXAlan

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I spoke too soon. They took my payment but sold it out from under me! It was gonna be my BD present to myself. I wonder if GXAlan got mine as he just posted that he bought one?

Also their email to me said it was a discontinued product. I guess I'll be buying a Marantz AVP from AC4less or maybe an SHD. Sheesh!

Not sure -- I actually bought it yesterday and it shipped out today.

The Marantz AV10 should be a better product *if* and only *if* they have a Dirac ART upgrade. Right now, it's still up in the air. You're still looking at $7K vs $4K though. I did buy an Arcam AV40 when Best Buy was clearing them out, but mine was DOA and I didn't have the energy to deal with troubleshooting and figured I'd wait for Trinnov to drop in price or a good deal to show up on the HTP-1.

The main thing I'll test is the SINAD at lower voltages. We know how it performs as a DAC, but if you think about it, this is the last part of the signal chain before your amp. If it's dumb at 4.1V but it's awesome at 2V XLR, 1V RCA it might not be that horrible of a setup.

If you think about it, 5W of sound is where most of your dialogue probably lives. If you look at the NCx500 at high gain, that's 0.185V and at low gain, that's 1.2 V in. So for the most part, you're living in these lower volumes and this is sort of what this post tries to discuss

 

Sal1950

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I didn't have the energy to deal with troubleshooting and figured I'd wait for Trinnov to drop in price or a good deal to show up on the HTP-1.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that price drop. LOL

The main thing I'll test is the SINAD at lower voltages. We know how it performs as a DAC, but if you think about it, this is the last part of the signal chain before your amp. If it's dumb at 4.1V but it's awesome at 2V XLR, 1V RCA it might not be that horrible of a setup.
That's what I was curious on, also AFAIK we've had no hard evidence that the DAC situation didn't change since the original review, that's been a very volatile area.
 

GXAlan

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I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that price drop. LOL

They just went on sale for a bit on eBay below $4000 (not anymore) and the B-stock price was under $3000! The HTP-1 is supposed to be getting a price increase later this year due to supply chain issues, but the economy keeps tanking, so maybe Monoprice is taking smaller profit margins.

That's what I was curious on, also AFAIK we've had no hard evidence that the DAC situation didn't change since the original review, that's been a very volatile area.

That's right. They had a stash of AKM chips so they never changed the DAC. They did redesign something to avoid the boot-loop errors (software to help existing customers and hardware to help new customers) and they also ran into some flash ROM issue that caused Dirac to fail initially which has been addressed.

At the 4V level, it's a solid performer but nothing special in the SINAD department. You're buying it for the combo of PEQ + Dirac and the flexibility. At the 2.7V level, it's tier 1. The real question is if it can break 105 dB SINAD at a lower voltage, which would put it in flagship status.

With a low-gain, high SINAD design like the AHB2 it made sense to have high voltage going out of the pre-amp/DAC. Nowadays, it seems like you'll get great SINAD even with high gain and it may actually prove out that the HTP-1 is better than we think. Think about your Adcom amps. Those have lots of gain. 1.75V gets you 200 W into 8 Ω...

As an aside, I'm pro-Marantz with my PM-10 and I'm also happy with Arcam as I recently spent a good amount of cash to repair an out-of-warranty SR250 to fix a dim VFD display and to recap it (which surprisingly leaked after just 5 years!). If the HTP-1 measures as well and is compatible with my HDMI-CEC setup, it'll be a really solid choice.

On AVS Forum, the Dirac ART upgrade has been stated as still being on track just this week, so it doesn't look like there will be any unwelcome surprises.
 

jhaider

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Not sure -- I actually bought it yesterday and it shipped out today.

The Marantz AV10 should be a better product *if* and only *if* they have a Dirac ART upgrade.

Why? It's much more expensive and a lot less capable: no PEQ for use prior to Dirac, no loudness compensation.

Sinad may be higher. BFD. Don't you like an amp with a Sinad of like 6?
 

GXAlan

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Why? It's much more expensive and a lot less capable: no PEQ for use prior to Dirac, no loudness compensation.

I am definitely looking forward to PEQ prior to Dirac on the HTP-1. I am not convinced that the majority of HTP-1 owners are taking advantage of what that really means and the difference in practice may be small.

And yes, I do like my 300B SET so SINAD isn’t the reason. And we both went from Yamaha CX-A5100 to HTP-1, so we are actually more similar than most for the HT area.

Still
1) It’s readily available for purchase.
2) No screen doom loop. The noise on XLRs was quickly addressed.
3) 8K switching, D&M gold standard HDMI CEC reliability. My understanding is that the Marantz runs cooler despite the 8K support.
4) XLR analog inputs plus a phono input
4) Bass Transducer support
5) DTS X Pro is working and the promised firmware updates have come on time.
 

Beast76

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I am definitely looking forward to PEQ prior to Dirac on the HTP-1. I am not convinced that the majority of HTP-1 owners are taking advantage of what that really means and the difference in practice may be small.

And yes, I do like my 300B SET so SINAD isn’t the reason. And we both went from Yamaha CX-A5100 to HTP-1, so we are actually more similar than most for the HT area.

Still
1) It’s readily available for purchase.
2) No screen doom loop. The noise on XLRs was quickly addressed.
3) 8K switching, D&M gold standard HDMI CEC reliability. My understanding is that the Marantz runs cooler despite the 8K support.
4) XLR analog inputs plus a phono input
4) Bass Transducer support
5) DTS X Pro is working and the promised firmware updates have come on time.
What benefits come from PEQ prior to Dirac? Being able to add PEQ after Dirac has definite benefits (ability to use BEQ and to add EQ to bass transducers) but am curious to learn what might be possible with “pre-EQ”.

As an FYI - boot loops are gone on the HTP-1 with the most recent firmware. From my understanding, there’s no ability to add EQ to bass transducers on the AV10, so seems to be a wash compared to the HTP-1. On the HTP-1 you can add transducers as another sub and apply a nice transducer EQ (including BEQ), but the channel (at this time) isn’t untouched, so whatever Dirac did to the subwoofer channel is also applied to the transducer. Someday we’ll hopefully get a Dirac update that supports transducers so we can have that non-EQ’ed channel.
 

GXAlan

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What benefits come from PEQ prior to Dirac? Being able to add PEQ after Dirac has definite benefits (ability to use BEQ and to add EQ to bass transducers) but am curious to learn what might be possible with “pre-EQ”.

@amirm can explain this better than I can, but

In theory, the argument for only doing room correction in the bass region is that there will be some small peaks and dips in room that is measured by your microphone which is caused by random reflections in your room and subject to very high variability from where you held your microphone. For a well-designed loudspeaker, you may be "correcting" fluctuations that may not actually be true errors in the frequency response and are just errors in your measurement. In contrast, bass measurements in your room are less sensitive to dramatic errors from small positional changes of your microphone.

The argument for doing room correction full-spectrum is that it can make your speakers sound better. If your speakers are voiced too bright, or your speakers are like the Bose 901, a full-range correction still works. Likewise, it can help unmatched speakers sound more similar (if you have different brands for your LCR vs. rears, etc.)

If you have a speaker which has high resolution "anechoic" data like we have with the NFS, you can use PEQ before Dirac to correct the frequency response of the speaker. You then can just apply Dirac to your own microphone/in-room measurements for the bass frequency. Now you get true speaker correction along with room correction.

The Trinnov/SDP-75 can do this, and for the SDP-75, there are actually presets for many of the popular JBL and Revel speakers.


As an FYI - boot loops are gone on the HTP-1 with the most recent firmware.

Yes, and they did say that they updated the hardware in this year's production as well. But for a while, they weren't 100% sure if they fixed the boot loop yet.
 

anomaly

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Yes, and they did say that they updated the hardware in this year's production as well. But for a while, they weren't 100% sure if they fixed the boot loop yet.
The boot loop was 100% in software, fixed in community firmware a while ago, and made it to the official release recently. There have been no reports of a true boot loop on any firmware where it was fixed.
 

jhaider

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I am definitely looking forward to PEQ prior to Dirac on the HTP-1. I am not convinced that the majority of HTP-1 owners are taking advantage of what that really means and the difference in practice may be small.

I agree with that, mostly. Loudness compensation is the more important feature for most people, and D+M including Dirac without a replacement for Audyssey DynamicEQ is IMO suboptimal. Dolby has a new version of Dolby Volume called Dolby Audio Processing or something like that. Maybe they will add that? I thought the"Volume Modeller" (loudness comp) component of Dolby Volume was very good.

PS the the other use case for PEQ before Dirac is to transform passive/DIY subs without introducing a separate controller. It’s a niche use too (one that I personally use in one of ours HTP-1’s ) admittedly.

And we both went from Yamaha CX-A5100 to HTP-1, so we are actually more similar than most for the HT area.

Good memory! Though I had a Marantz AVP in between, as well as a couple evaluation units (Bryston-branded StormAudio, Lyngdorf MP60v1.) So a number of years passed between the two. FWIW, I never liked the 5100 and was glad to replace it. The room correction wasn’t up to snuff and the UI was a continuing challenge. The only reason I bought it was, it was the only AVP to maintain Dolby Pro Logic II for music upmixing along with Atmos. Auromatic made losing DPL2 more palatable.

Still
1) It’s readily available for purchase.
2) No screen doom loop. The noise on XLRs was quickly addressed.
3) 8K switching, D&M gold standard HDMI CEC reliability. My understanding is that the Marantz runs cooler despite the 8K support.
4) XLR analog inputs plus a phono input
4) Bass Transducer support
5) DTS X Pro is working and the promised firmware updates have come on time.

Collectively (assuming availability) that does not look like several thousand dollars of benefit to me, especially weighed against the two disadvantages discussed above.

! I’ll concede 1, until and unless MP develops a track record of continued availability (though one must also continue to assess A/V's relative place at Masimo, given recent events...), and 4-2 (transducer). Also 2 in part: though this issue hasn’t cropped up in either of mine for some time, but the fact that it was an issue reasonably leads to some doubt unfortunately.

DTS:X is IMO near pointless here. On a 16 channel processor it's only useful for the handful of people who
a] have more than 7.x.4 speakers,
b] still play from video disks, and
c] either don't care about bass fidelity (channels taken away from DLBC) or have endless hours for manual optimization of multiple subwoofers.

XLR analog inputs in a digital processor seem wasteful. What would be connected to it? If someone says “a DAC for 2 channel” because that just shows user ignorance and delusion. The reasonable advantage here would be that Marantz builds in AirPlay2 (they still do, right?) but you need an AppleTV or WiiM-type device to play music over AirPlay on the HTP-1.

Phono preamp does ticks a box I suppose, but I would expect anyone using vinyl would have their own anyway. The phono preamp in my old 7703 was not very good. A Parks Audio Puffin with digital input into the AVP is much better.

As for HDMI, by the time 8k means anything in terms of content we'll be on HDMI 7 (or, more hopefully, beyond HDMI entirely and just stringing normal ethernet cables between everything). FWIW my old Marantz 7703 at least was inferior to HTP-1 as well as Bryston/Storm and Lyngdorf. It could not pass Dolby Vision through my optical HDMI while the others all could. Inadequate voltage for the driver. Maybe new ones have more grunt, but everyone was touting Marantz's HDMI superior performance way back then too.
 

Sal1950

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@amirm can explain this better than I can, but
I understand (in general) the subjects being covered here but, Oy vey
I'd need to take at least a semester of college level classes to be able to handle such difficult software config.
I'm sure many here enjoy this type of thing but now, at my age it's like water/rack torture.
How many different layers of DRC do we really need to get great sound?
fuhgeddaboudit.gif
 

GXAlan

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The boot loop was 100% in software, fixed in community firmware a while ago, and made it to the official release recently. There have been no reports of a true boot loop on any firmware where it was fixed.

Fast forward to 46:04
 

Sal1950

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It could not pass Dolby Vision through my optical HDMI while the others all could. Inadequate voltage for the driver. Maybe new ones have more grunt, but everyone was touting Marantz's HDMI superior performance way back then too. FWIW my old Marantz 7703 at least was inferior to HTP-1 as well as Bryston/Storm and Lyngdorf.
Dolby Vision? It wasn't even a thing when the 7703 processor was designed nor was it claimed as a compatible codec.
I had a 7703 until it died an unnatural death due to lightning strike, great processor for the money. But why slam on a 2016 product that was half or less (MSRP $2199) the cost of the ones your comparing it too?
 

jhaider

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How many different layers of DRC do we really need to get great sound?

That depends on how one defines DRC, but generally speaking, correction for bass is done on the steady state room response and correction of mids and highs should be done based on direct field response. So two.
 
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