Marantz Cinema 40 AVR Review

[ban25]

I asked this question, but got no response from the guy who's got the insider info about Denon/Marantz.

We'll see if Phil Jones answers this question on Audioholics' livestream tomorrow.

 

[RichB]

This was a thorough review; the additional amp measurements are very nice.
IME, a product that can't implement a good reconstruction filter is not more than fair.
Also, the increased distortion at higher frequencies is not ideal.

- Rich

 

[SDX-LV]

Seeing the depressing AVR performance and knowing that there are now Arvus HDMI processors - could we please see a review of MOTU Ao24 ???

 

[CleanSound]

About time AVR are getting to respectable measurements.

However, the useful life of a AVR is only about 10 years before next generation of new surround sound and video standards hits the market. I would love to see a company that makes a modular/upgradeable AVR where to work with future surround sound and video standards. When such a product hits, more people are incline to spend that that kind of money on one.

 

[Joost80]

About time AVR are getting to respectable measurements.

However, the useful life of a AVR is only about 10 years before next generation of new surround sound and video standards hits the market. I would love to see a company that makes a modular/upgradeable AVR where to work with future surround sound and video standards. When such a product hits, more people are incline to spend that that kind of money on one.

Only 10 years? Since when is using a piece of technology for 10 years become something to be saying you 'only' got 10 years use out of it.

 

[pogo]

I would love to see a company that makes a modular/upgradeable AVR where to work with future surround sound and video standards.

NAD does it: Link

 

[CleanSound]

Only 10 years? Since when is using a piece of technology for 10 years become something to be saying you 'only' got 10 years use out of it.

In the world of two channel audio, more than 10 year expectation is not unreasonable at all. In fact, I personally know many people who has own a piece of equipment for more than 20 years, and I am certain there are some ASR members who has own an audio equipment for even longer.

When it comes to computer electronics, I agree that 10 years is a long time. An AVR is partially a computer due to the DSP and surround processing, hence having it modular is a great idea. Of course company wouldn't do that, because they don't want to sell upgrades, they want to sell new products. The one thing I respect Schiit for is that the Yggy is 100% modular, I respect and admire that design.

 

[Descartes]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Marantz Cinema 40 9.4 channel AV Receiver (AVR). It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $3,500.
View attachment 335356
As is typical in this class, you get a very large box. At least the look is unique and to my liking. The port hole display while limiting fits in the style.

Back panel as usual has hundreds of connections:
View attachment 335357

While I liked the remote on Marantz AV 10 I reviewed recently, in this instance had rather sticking and hard to use 4-way arrow buttons. I updated the unit to latest firmware and performed a factory reset for testing.

Marantz Cinema 40 DAC Measurements
I set the pre-outs to be only that (not driving speakers) and tested the left front and right front channels using HDMI input:
View attachment 335358
Usually I don't see a difference in "Pure Direct" mode here but as noted, we earned 2 dB for turning off some subsystems in the receiver. We gained more though by using Toslink:
View attachment 335359
Giving the benefit of doubt and going with this value of SINAD (ratio of noise+distortion), we get a reasonable ranking for an AV product:
View attachment 335360

Above is at volume level of 82.5 which on all Denon/Marantz products generates nominal 2 volts out. We can test at other levels first by sweeping the digital input level:
View attachment 335363

As you see, we already have the optimal output at 2 volts/volume of 82.5. As you crank up the volume, noise level increases so performance drops (green). You do get more output though if you need that at the expense of distortion. At 3.6 volt though, the preamp clips so best to not go above that.

We can alternatively keep the input at full digital level but crank up the volume 30 dB starting at volume level 58 dB going up to 88 dB:
View attachment 335364

I have put a cursor at 2 volt/82.5 volume level. All the way on the left is volume level of 58 dB which has a SINAD of 84.5 (13 dB loss relative to 2 volts out).

Would have been nice to land in green though. Form here on, I used Toslink unless noted otherwise. Noise performance is good for AV class:
View attachment 335361

IMD is not great as DACs are concerned but in the context of AV products, we bend the rules and call it good:
View attachment 335362

Multitone response is where the rest of the measurements are:
View attachment 335365

50 Hz response is the same.
View attachment 335368

AV products tend to generate suboptimal linearity but results are fairly good for the class:
View attachment 335369

We have a pronounced jitter source at 6 kHz that gets worse with HDMI:
View attachment 335370

I am relieved that Marantz now has a proper filter but its attenuation needs to be improved:
View attachment 335371

Frequency response is flat which we didn't have in previous generations:
View attachment 335372

The less than ideal filter impacts wideband THD+N measurements:
View attachment 335373

We can see that clearly by performing a wideband spectrum analysis of 1 kHz:
View attachment 335374

The tall spikes are the reason the previous graph looks so poor. Fortunately they are not audible.

Marantz Cinema 40 Amplifier Measurements
Let's start with the same Toslink input and see what we get at 5 watts:
View attachment 335375
That is decent performance which improves a bit with analog input:
View attachment 335376

Average for all amplifiers tested is in low 80s so the Cinema 40 is doing good here:
View attachment 335377

And oh, no warm up issues as we saw in Cinema 70s AVR review:
View attachment 335378

Noise performance is very good:
View attachment 335379

Frequency response is wide and unimpeded with analog input:
View attachment 335380

Crosstalk is disappointing:
View attachment 335381

Same for 19 and 20 kHz tones:
View attachment 335382

That's because distortion sharply rises at high frequencies:
View attachment 335383

Which we can confirm in our power vs frequency sweeps:
View attachment 335384

We do have good bit of power with overall good performance:
View attachment 335385
Some kind of feedback loop is keeping distortion constant but allows it to rise early in the sweep.
View attachment 335386

We naturally have some headroom as the power supply has to feed more than the two channels we test:
View attachment 335387

Marantz Cinema 40 Reactive Load Testing
For desert, we have some stress testing by varying the phase from -60 to +60 with resistance of 8 down to 2 ohm:
View attachment 335388
Ideal amp would keep its output voltage constant no matter what the load. Here we some drooping but good robustness, handling down to 2 ohm even though it is rated at 6 ohm! Even though voltage drops as impedance decreases, we still pump out a lot of power:
View attachment 335389

I should note that the amplifier never shut down even though it was pushed hard and into clipping. Very happy about that!

Conclusions
Our suite measurements show some progress toward a more uniform and performant AV product, far outperforming previous generation AV products from Marantz. Other than the weak attenuation of the filter, there are no major holes. I like to see the company attempt to climb up one step in total performance as to not make me stress over whether recommending it or not!

I am going to recommend the Marantz Cinema 40 AVR. It is expensive but delivers good enough performance.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

The Denon AVR 4800 amplifiers measure better and is cheaper!

 

[Chrispy]

In the world of two channel audio, more than 10 year expectation is not unreasonable at all. In fact, I personally know many people who has own a piece of equipment for more than 20 years, and I am certain there are some ASR members who has own an audio equipment for even longer.

When it comes to computer electronics, I agree that 10 years is a long time. An AVR is partially a computer due to the DSP and surround processing, hence having it modular is a great idea. Of course company wouldn't do that, because they don't want to sell upgrades, they want to sell new products. The one thing I respect Schiit for is that the Yggy is 100% modular, I respect and admire that design.

I have three avrs older than 10 years, they work fine. Like 2ch audio, the basic audio parts can be useful longer than just the latest/greatest codec or video resolution standard comes along (I'm happy with 1080p and can't really do Atmos)....I do have a few 2ch rigs that are older, but just less useful, particularly for multich audio or incorporating video. Modularity would be nice, but hasn't really been much of a thing, remember when NAD started they had a horrible time keeping up.....

 

[GXAlan]

I have three avrs older than 10 years, they work fine. Like 2ch audio, the basic audio parts can be useful longer than just the latest/greatest codec or video resolution standard comes along (I'm happy with 1080p and can't really do Atmos)....I do have a few 2ch rigs that are older, but just less useful, particularly for multich audio or incorporating video. Modularity would be nice, but hasn't really been much of a thing, remember when NAD started they had a horrible time keeping up.....

I think the gear from 10 years ago will have a harder time being relevant to gear 10 years from today. The combination of eARC which enables multichannel PCM and Atmos independent of video format and increasing streaming popularity means that from a pure audio standpoint, you really don’t need to upgrade for a very long time.

Atmos for home can do 12, 14, or 16 total dynamic objects and so you have 11 channels to work with and then the ability to use the AVR to position the remaining groups of effects.

Whereas we went through Dolby Surround, Pro-Logic, Dolby Digital, DTS, 5.1 to 6.1 to 7.1 where it was pretty practical to add more speakers*, adding Atmos is trickier except for upfiring.

 

[Chrispy]

I think the gear from 10 years ago will have a harder time being relevant to gear 10 years from today. The combination of eARC which enables multichannel PCM and Atmos independent of video format and increasing streaming popularity means that from a pure audio standpoint, you really don’t need to upgrade for a very long time.

Atmos for home can do 12, 14, or 16 total dynamic objects and so you have 11 channels to work with and then the ability to use the AVR to position the remaining groups of effects.

Whereas we went through Dolby Surround, Pro-Logic, Dolby Digital, DTS, 5.1 to 6.1 to 7.1 where it was pretty practical to add more speakers*, adding Atmos is trickier except for upfiring.

Probably. If my plasma sets die I'll likely go 4k finally, might try Atmos one of these days but mounting speakers in my ceilings would be a pain (and bouncy speakers, no thanks). I still have a bad taste in my mouth for ARC, but I only use displays for video. With some streaming services still believe audio can be limited by your video capabilities.....

 

[CleanSound]

But it is priced quite high. I mean, you are paying a LOT for that type of design.

It's not cheap. But I personally am OK with that price, just not the performance and other aspects of the design outside of modularity.

 

[GXAlan]

Probably. If my plasma sets die I'll likely go 4k finally, might try Atmos one of these days but mounting speakers in my ceilings would be a pain (and bouncy speakers, no thanks). I still have a bad taste in my mouth for ARC, but I only use displays for video. With some streaming services still believe audio can be limited by your video capabilities.....

The good thing is that ARC and HDMI-CEC came out in 2009 and it was really buggy back then unless you were running *all* Sony (since they were the only ones who had 1080 Blu-Ray player, Television, and AVR).

It's been about 15 years! It's still not perfect, but I think in the last 5 years the Sony and Samsung HDMI CEC has been pretty good, Vizio's HDMI CEC has been buggier, but it's sort of living up to the promises of

In terms of bouncy-speakers, if you have an Atmos receiver/processor, you should try the Klipsch RP-500SA from Amazon which goes for about $300. They're surprisingly effective since they're one of the few upfiring speakers that fully has the Atmos analog filter (which you can turn on/off) and I believe one of the few Atmos-enabled speakers that actually gets to use the Dolby Atmos logo. (A lot of others have generic phrases like "elevation" speaker). You know it's "real" if it has separate analog filters for upfiring versus wall mounted. The ones that let you wall mount *or* up-fire *and* do not have a switchable filter are less capable.

My only direct experience is with the Pioneer "Andrew Jones" upfiring speaker, which is a true Atmos filter (cannot be wall mounted and has the Dolby Atmos trademark) and comparing to the Klipsch. The Klipsch actually did give me a sensation of height, more-so in the rear as compared to the front.

 

[DamianW]

Can you perform the 5w Test with THD and FFT results for the reactive and inductive loads.

IE 4 ohm load 60 deg capacitive.

 

[D700]

And as a Marantz die-hard...consider me dead. The new art-deco design language leaves me wanting ... champagne silver with Walnut side panels. Seriously Marantz, take a hint from the rabid market for your vintage amps and receivers. How can you not get that?

If I were a Marantz product manager, I'd:
-make it "All Digital"
-broom all the analog a/v inputs
-cut way back on # of HDMI
-get rid of the head phone jack
-Programmable screen large enough to be useful, tasteful UIs with some Marantz vintage meters looks.
-Take the money saved by simplified architecture and beef up the amp & specs.
-Then champagne silver with some optional side panels.

Companies are still emulating old Marantz "look"...except for Marantz. I truly don't understand what they are thinking. Embrace the heritage, don't bury it.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

About time AVR are getting to respectable measurements.

However, the useful life of a AVR is only about 10 years before next generation of new surround sound and video standards hits the market. I would love to see a company that makes a modular/upgradeable AVR where to work with future surround sound and video standards. When such a product hits, more people are incline to spend that that kind of money on one.

NAD. Upgraded modular rather expensive.

 

[Chrispy]

And as a Marantz die-hard...consider me dead. The new art-deco design language leaves me wanting ... champagne silver with Walnut side panels. Seriously Marantz, take a hint from the rabid market for your vintage amps and receivers. How can you not get that?

If I were a Marantz product manager, I'd:
-make it "All Digital"
-broom all the analog a/v inputs
-cut way back on # of HDMI
-get rid of the head phone jack
-Programmable screen large enough to be useful, tasteful UIs with some Marantz vintage meters looks.
-Take the money saved by simplified architecture and beef up the amp & specs.
-Then champagne silver with some optional side panels.

Companies are still emulating old Marantz "look"...except for Marantz. I truly don't understand what they are thinking. Embrace the heritage, don't bury it.

Apply to Masimo? I personally find the "differences" in marketing between Denon and Marantz more annoying/confusing....

 

[D700]

Apply to Masimo? I personally find the "differences" in marketing between Denon and Marantz more annoying/confusing....

Sorry, don't understand "Apply to Masimo? "

 

[Chrispy]

Sorry, don't understand "Apply to Masimo? "

Masimo is the owner of Marantz and Denon brands....

 

[D700]

Guys, sorry if I started the thread derailment defending plasma...

back to the Cinema 40...does anyone else just want to move that center portal down about a 1/4' to line up and make it same size as the knobs on either end?

If you're not going to deliver above average specs, at least make it look good. Sorry to those that do like it...but just no.