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Marantz Cinema 40 AVR Review

Rate this AVR:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 6 3.1%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 49 25.5%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 117 60.9%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 20 10.4%

  • Total voters
    192

Brambo67

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I am not sure, so I did a side by side using a spreadsheet:

Based on this comparison, I would say this is the first time we can really say the two are technical identical twins, made in the same production facility in Japan too. There are very minor differences in a couple tests that show the Cinema 40 did may be up to a couple dB better at lower output levels but I believe such minor differences mean very little unless Amir did both at the same time/day, side by side under the exact wiring layout and conditions including humidity and temperature lol.. but not when at times he mentioned ground loop issues that he reduced/eliminate but not sure if he re-did those test (not exactly his words, I am just using examples to say that when you do such lab work on different day, and unless you repeat those test a few time, there are bound to be variance. Anyone who has run Audyssey, Dirac or whatever, even just do a REW sweep, you don't get the same results every time even if you never move the mic...

So, I have to conclude that (okay just my opinion), if Europe, such as France, Germany, UK, and you like Marantz look, go for the C40, but in Canada and the US, definitely take the AVR-X4800H and spend the $800-$1,00 saved on high quality contents, or on subscriptions such as Qobuz etc., or just use it on DLBC, ART.

TestsCinema40AVR-X4800H
HDMI90.36494.068
TOSLINK97.22994.265
SNR108.047107.719
IMDABOUT 2 dB BETTER AT -20 TO -15 level3 TO 5 dB BETTER FROM -5 TO 0 dB level
32 tone inputabout 17 dB distortion free rangealmost 18 bits distortion free range
Linearityabout the same as the Denonabout the same as the Marantz
Jitterhad 6 kHz sideband, HDMI worseno sideband, HDMI same as Toslink
Frequency responseNice and flat, same as the DenonNice and flat, same as the Marantz
5 W output, analog input86.666 dB87.229 dB
5 W output, digital input84.698 dB86.035 dB
Cross talkAlmost identical to the Denon'sAmost identical to the Marantz's
Power output at 1% THD212.8 W208.2 W
Power output vs THD+NLooks the same as Denon's up to 10 kHzLooks the same as Marantz's but better at 15 kHz
In Europe (Netherlands) Denon can be sourced for about € 1,400 whereas Marantz is at least € 2,000
 

IamJF

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Building a PC based Preamp would be a great job for a company like Dirac! They have all the knowhow, it would just need a nice graphic interface to do the setup and switch sources, streaming etc.
Or does it need a free code comunity for such a project?

The nice thing is you could completely configure your outputs and also the quality of components. There is a wide range of external audio interfaces or even interfaces with just digital outputs. The software just interfaces with ASIO and can use whatever you want.
 

peng

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In Europe (Netherlands) Denon can be sourced for about € 1,400 whereas Marantz is at least € 2,000
Really, I posted France's prices before, the differences were 200 to 300.

Keep in mind I was comparing list price. For sales price you have to pick the timing. In the past I have seen Marantz had power sales price than their equivalent models, one time by a big margin. For aplles to apples comparison, you have to use official list price.

I just checked prices for the Cinema 40 in Europe:

France.....................€ 2,800
Germany............... € 2,800
U.K............................£2,450

USA......................... $3,500
Canada...................$4,500

Clearly, if in Europe, the Marantz Cinema 40 is attractive, vs the Denon AVR-X4800H.

Thanks to ASR, we now know how it performs vs the AVC-X4800H we can now be quite sure choice can be based on personal preference of the style, and price and don't have to worry much about differences in the so called sound quality issues.
 
Last edited:

Vacceo

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There's a couple reasons why changing PC parts is easy:
1) For the most part, nearly every component is standardized and interchangeable (w/the exception of AMD vs Intel vs Apple chips of course).
2) The culture of building or build-to-order PCs has been around forever.
3) OEMs have very little desire to carry proprietary parts w/some exceptions (looking at you, Dell!)

I can't imagine the AVR oligopolies (Denon/Marantz and Onkyo/Pioneer, etc.) expressing any desire to lose differentiation by selling modular designs. In your example of Trinnov, it's such a niche market that other companies would scoff at adding SKUs and giving a separate level of tech support to this genre (how's regular tech support treating us even now?).
They could make their proprietary systems modular and upgrade within themselves.
 

Larszt

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Maybe a dumb question. But does the Cinema 40 RCA preout output 1.3v or 2v?
 

peng

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Maybe a dumb question. But does the Cinema 40 RCA preout output 1.3v or 2v?

It depends, you can find the answer from this graph, based on your own applications.

index.php
 

Larszt

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It depends, you can find the answer from this graph, based on your own applications.

index.php
I have a NC502m d-class power amp with 26db and 2.3vrms. Just wondring how much power out of the 500w the Cinema 40 can draw?
 

MetalBOX

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It's the only output I have on my 2022 Samsung QLED. Oh, and Bluetooth.
If you look at the back of your TV you'll find an HDMI ARC/eARC port, which is the input/output for HDMI audio on a TV. It serves as both an audio/video input and an audio output for all devices connected to the TV. So long as it's not occupied specifically by a device that needs it (or instance, a game console with HDMI 2.1), you can configure it and run it to your AVR for higher quality formats than what Toslink will give you. Your TV is a 2022 Samsung, and even their cheaper models don't cut corners on something like ARC.

That said, ARC/eARC can be a headache (especially with specific soundbars) and not every TV does it the same. I have a TCL QM8 and it literally will only output PCM 2.0 to my processor. It's literally the only thing I dislike about the TV, but most TVs don't have this issue.
 

peng

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I have a NC502m d-class power amp with 26db and 2.3vrms. Just wondring how much power out of the 500w the Cinema 40 can draw?
If you amp's gain is 26 dB, then you need about 2.65 V to get it's rated 350 W into 8 ohms, or based on it's rated 500 W into 4 ohms, then you need about 2.25 V. So the bottom line is, the Cinema 40 has more than enough voltage to squeeze every watt out of your power amp.
 

IamJF

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It depends, you can find the answer from this graph, based on your own applications.

index.php
This graph means:
With your volume at 82,5 you have optimal SINAD but you can't fully drive your power amp.
Just turn up to about 85-86 should be enough level for the power amp - you loose a little SINAD but your ears will have other problems in this situation ;-)
 

Opal

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Will Denon or Marantz ever make a AV40 or AVR-4 or something? I believe there is a real market for this.
 

EWL5

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Will Denon or Marantz ever make a AV40 or AVR-4 or something? I believe there is a real market for this.
What would be different about the AVR you're suggesting?
 

Rottmannash

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It's the only output I have on my 2022 Samsung QLED. Oh, and Bluetooth.
Have you considered running an HDMI cable from the tv<>AVR and use eARC? I believe that's the way most use modern tv's and AVR's.
 

Rottmannash

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MetalBOX

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No. My receiving end doesn't have HDMi or the like.
Kind of irrelevant to this discussion though, since your receiving end isn't important.

If you bought this AVR you'd have HDMI inputs. Why would you need to worry about toslink? Your TV has ARC/eARC, and using toslink would mean you wouldn't even get half the formats the AVR can play.

Anyway, my point is measuring toslink on an AVR in 2023 isn't particularly useful since no one would use it outside of some very particular edge cases (generally music-only formats).
 

Miker 1102

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Many thanks for an excellent review that includes measuring the pre out level up to 4 V, and reactive load tests on the power amps down to 2 Ohms. I think you may be the first reviewer who included those two tests in one single bench test session. Again, thank you for the nice desert!!

It looks like D+M did manage to squeeze the 93 dB SINAD spec TI PCM5102A dry, totally dry. They should patent their DAC chip implementation for achieving the seemingly impossible 98 dB SINAD you measured on the pre outs using Toslink. Even if they use differential implementation by doubling the number of the PCM chips, it doesn't seem possible to reach 98 dB when the spec for the chip all by itself is only 93 dB. Differential implementation mainly benefits in term of may be up to 6 dB noise reduction at the most anyway.

View attachment 335438

Based on the pre out performance of the Cinema 40 and the AVR-X4800H, may be D+M/Masimo has secretly replaces the PCM5102A with a better one such as the ESS's ES9010K2M??
Yeah. I wondered about this because isn't this the same chip that's in the 3800? I can get some music distortion if I max out my amp and it's around like that 93db. Am I wrong about the chip?
 

Miker 1102

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Let’s all do our best to stay focused on this review and not get sidetracked by discussing Chips and other thread drift topics. First 20 pages we want to keep on topic.

Please and thank you for your Cooperation and understanding. ;)

Understood, sorry I started this, but I think you can see why, as you likely know many members were not happy to find out SU replaced the AKM chip with the TI chip that has much lower SINAD specs. So now we see good results from the 4800, 70 and the 40, and some of us bound to wonder why, it is totally on topic imo but I will comply with your request.

Let’s all do our best to stay focused on this review and not get sidetracked by discussing Chips and other thread drift topics. First 20 pages we want to keep on topic.

Please and thank you for your Cooperation and understanding. ;)
I am sorry I asked a question about the chip because I was reading in order. I will reply with the request but feel Peng's contribution is a major issue of contention about the Denon product and correlates directly with the review so that's why I responded. I hope that's ok.
 

peng

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Yeah. I wondered about this because isn't this the same chip that's in the 3800? I can get some music distortion if I max out my amp and it's around like that 93db. Am I wrong about the chip?
Moderator doesn't want us to derail too much
I am sorry I asked a question about the chip because I was reading in order. I will reply with the request but feel Peng's contribution is a major issue of contention about the Denon product and correlates directly with the review so that's why I responded. I hope that's ok.
I actually find something and I don't think our mod would have issue with this as it is also a review, by a dealer in Taiwan:

If you follow the link you can get it translated and read the whole review. The information looks credible as they appear to have done a teardown so they could see what's used in it, but still not 100%. That's the best I can find so far, it looks like unlike Denon, this time Marantz seem to keep the details of the Cinema series secret, yet they are not shy to tell you a lot more details of their flagship AV10.


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