Marantz Cinema 70S and MultEQ-X questions

[Oski1928]

Hi, I have been wanting to revise my current setup into something with the ability to have room correction. I have been considering the Eversolo DMP A6/A8 with a Purifi/Hypex amp.

I’m now questioning if I would not be better off with something like the Cinema 70S as a processor into the same amp offerings I mentioned above. I can get one for the same price as a A6. I currently have a 2.0 setup, but adding a sub is something I would like to do at some point and while I don’t plan on adding a center anytime soon, I’m interested in adding 2 surround channels now that I’m considering an AVR (used to do home theater and kind of miss it). In regards to the sub the 70S is appealing as I could high pass the speakers and still use a sub unlike the Eversolo offerings.

I have some questions about the 70S though. I have gone through two different threads on this site and have found a good bit of info I was looking for, but want to get some solid answers if possible.

1. does the 70S have the ability to set individual Chanel’s into its pre amp mode or is it all the channels on or off? If I ever did add some surround channels I would probably power them with the 70S but would still want the pre amp mode engaged for the front L+R

2. Are the two subwoofer outputs independent?

3. In general for use as a pre amp would using the eco auto function have any effect?

4. Finally, one of the bummers is that it has Audyssey XT and not XT32, if I were to get MultEQ-x would the fact that it’s only XT and not XT32 have any effect? I’m still somewhat confused on what exactly the capabilities of MultEQ-x are but I will rewatch the audioholics video they did regarding that. Ideally I’d like to use it completely disregarding Audyssey and have it as a platform to input REW filters.

With this line of thinking, any reason (audible benefit in regards to 2 channel audio) that I should go with the Eversolo over the Marantz and lose a whole lot of possible functionality?

Thanks!

Edit: after seeing some responses i figured I would add this. Aesthetics are important to me. I really like the look of the Cinema 70S. I’m actually not crazy about the look of the rest of the Cinema line as I don’t think the style translates as well to a bigger enclosure as it does to the slimline. I have considered waiting for the X6800H to be available on open box discount and go that route to just completely set myself up to build a full surround system (my eventual plan but not really anytime soon).

The Cinema 70S not having independent subwoofer outputs as I was informed here is not helping its case right now, but I still would like to get concrete answers for the other questions I’ve asked, that was I can make accurate comparisons that I don’t question myself about.

 

[Golfx]

Hi, I have been wanting to revise my current setup into something with the ability to have room correction. I have been considering the Eversolo DMP A6/A8 with a Purifi/Hypex amp.

I’m now questioning if I would not be better off with something like the Cinema 70S as a processor into the same amp offerings I mentioned above. I can get one for the same price as a A6. I currently have a 2.0 setup, but adding a sub is something I would like to do at some point and while I don’t plan on adding a center anytime soon, I’m interested in adding 2 surround channels now that I’m considering an AVR (used to do home theater and kind of miss it). In regards to the sub the 70S is appealing as I could high pass the speakers and still use a sub unlike the Eversolo offerings.

I have some questions about the 70S though. I have gone through two different threads on this site and have found a good bit of info I was looking for, but want to get some solid answers if possible.

1. does the 70S have the ability to set individual Chanel’s into its pre amp mode or is it all the channels on or off? If I ever did add some surround channels I would probably power them with the 70S but would still want the pre amp mode engaged for the front L+R

2. Are the two subwoofer outputs independent?

3. In general for use as a pre amp would using the eco auto function have any effect?

4. Finally, one of the bummers is that it has Audyssey XT and not XT32, if I were to get MultEQ-x would the fact that it’s only XT and not XT32 have any effect? I’m still somewhat confused on what exactly the capabilities of MultEQ-x are but I will rewatch the audioholics video they did regarding that. Ideally I’d like to use it completely disregarding Audyssey and have it as a platform to input REW filters.

With this line of thinking, any reason (audible benefit in regards to 2 channel audio) that I should go with the Eversolo over the Marantz and lose a whole lot of possible functionality?

Thanks!

I would go with a higher denon/marantz that has the RC and options you desire. Costs are a “negative” factor in choosing audio equipment. Better to get what you know you want instead of compromise with the hope for better. With a higher option you will get more options for RC including DIRAC ART option as an upgrade should you so desire and the certain knowledge that it will allow individual internal amps to be disconnected from the power rails.

 

[ban25]

4. Finally, one of the bummers is that it has Audyssey XT and not XT32, if I were to get MultEQ-x would the fact that it’s only XT and not XT32 have any effect? I’m still somewhat confused on what exactly the capabilities of MultEQ-x are but I will rewatch the audioholics video they did regarding that. Ideally I’d like to use it completely disregarding Audyssey and have it as a platform to input REW filters.

I'd look at the Denon X3800H instead of the 70s. It will give you full XT32 out of the box with the ability to upgrade to Dirac Live. If you're in love with the Marantz aesthetic, you'll need to go to the Cinema 50, which is the X3800H's twin. The 3800 is $1500 on Amazon right now, though it has been known to go on sale periodically.

MQX is great. Is it worth $200 compared to a Dirac Live license, though, particularly given the upgrade path to DLBC and ART? Up to you. Yes you can import from REW using MQX (again, $200 license for that feature), but I think it would be rather complex to average a multi-point measurement in REW to do what Audyssey and Dirac do at the press of a button. The better use-case I find for REW is to measure the result post-calibration and make adjustments as necessary.

Regarding the Eversolo, it's a 2-channel streaming integrated amp with the convenience of an ARC input. It's largely meant for dedicated 2-channel music listening. You can use it with ARC, but it's worth noting that the Eversolo cannot decode many codecs used by TV and film content. At best, it might be able to decode old-school Dolby Digital, but I don't see any logos on their site, so that's not guaranteed. This means that if you're bitstreaming these codecs (Dolby, DTS, Atmos), you'll get nothing but silence. In order to use something like the Eversolo in a home theatre context, you need your TV (or upstream source) to decode to PCM. The problem is you don't have much (any) control over that process. Does it downmix 5.1 and 7.1 into stereo PCM? Does it just drop all the channels except FR and FL and send you those? Depends.

The Eversolo also lacks room correction entirely. If you're using it exclusively for 2-channel streaming using Roon, then you can use Roon's convolution filter to do your RC and you're good to go. But that won't work with analog sources (or ARC) and....the Eversolo is not Roon Ready yet. If you want Roon and Room Correction, but still want to run a small integrated amp instead of an AVR, then you could look into an NAD M10 V2. That would give you Dirac Live, Roon Ready, and Dolby Digital decoding, plus multi-room streaming support. Long story short, I think the Eversolo is a bad idea all the way around and to be honest, their lunch is going to be eaten by the Wiim Amp at the low-end given their (Eversolo's) price point and lack of features. At the high-end of the admittedly tiny integrated market, you have the NAD M33, Hegel H600, Naim, and too many more to list.

 

[jaakkopetteri]

The subwoofer outputs on the 70s are not independent

 

[Oski1928]

I'd look at the Denon X3800H instead of the 70s. It will give you full XT32 out of the box with the ability to upgrade to Dirac Live. If you're in love with the Marantz aesthetic, you'll need to go to the Cinema 50, which is the X3800H's twin. The 3800 is $1500 on Amazon right now, though it has been known to go on sale periodically.

MQX is great. Is it worth $200 compared to a Dirac Live license, though, particularly given the upgrade path to DLBC and ART? Up to you. Yes you can import from REW using MQX (again, $200 license for that feature), but I think it would be rather complex to average a multi-point measurement in REW to do what Audyssey and Dirac do at the press of a button. The better use-case I find for REW is to measure the result post-calibration and make adjustments as necessary.

Regarding the Eversolo, it's a 2-channel streaming integrated amp with the convenience of an ARC input. It's largely meant for dedicated 2-channel music listening. You can use it with ARC, but it's worth noting that the Eversolo cannot decode many codecs used by TV and film content. At best, it might be able to decode old-school Dolby Digital, but I don't see any logos on their site, so that's not guaranteed. This means that if you're bitstreaming these codecs (Dolby, DTS, Atmos), you'll get nothing but silence. In order to use something like the Eversolo in a home theatre context, you need your TV (or upstream source) to decode to PCM. The problem is you don't have much (any) control over that process. Does it downmix 5.1 and 7.1 into stereo PCM? Does it just drop all the channels except FR and FL and send you those? Depends.

The Eversolo also lacks room correction entirely. If you're using it exclusively for 2-channel streaming using Roon, then you can use Roon's convolution filter to do your RC and you're good to go. But that won't work with analog sources (or ARC) and....the Eversolo is not Roon Ready yet. If you want Roon and Room Correction, but still want to run a small integrated amp instead of an AVR, then you could look into an NAD M10 V2. That would give you Dirac Live, Roon Ready, and Dolby Digital decoding, plus multi-room streaming support. Long story short, I think the Eversolo is a bad idea all the way around and to be honest, their lunch is going to be eaten by the Wiim Amp at the low-end given their (Eversolo's) price point and lack of features. At the high-end of the admittedly tiny integrated market, you have the NAD M33, Hegel H600, Naim, and too many more to list.

Well as of right now I only have a two channel setup, and I didn’t necessarily plan on changing that, but when I considered the AVR route it was an idea that became appealing. I have no analogue sources and my current system handles all music and video related listening in my living room. I use the optical output into a Marantz NA6006 (pcm only), so I know this is not an issue. Also with the Eversolo, I would be able to either use the PEQ, or input filters from REW using its FIR filter ability.

I’m not trying to make a case for Eversolo, but I want to compare the products accurately. Is anything I said incorrect?

 

[peng]

Well as of right now I only have a two channel setup, and I didn’t necessarily plan on changing that, but when I considered the AVR route it was an idea that became appealing. I have no analogue sources and my current system handles all music and video related listening in my living room. I use the optical output into a Marantz NA6006 (pcm only), so I know this is not an issue. Also with the Eversolo, I would be able to either use the PEQ, or input filters from REW using its FIR filter ability.

I’m not trying to make a case for Eversolo, but I want to compare the products accurately. Is anything I said incorrect?

Are you sure REW does FIR filters, I don't think so, but I may not be as up to date as I thought I was.

 

[Oski1928]

The subwoofer outputs on the 70s are not independent

Thanks for the info.

 

[Oski1928]

Are you sure REW does FIR filters, I don't think so, but I may not be as up to date as I thought I was.

What I read was that you can import REW filters into the FIR filter section on the Eversolo: http://music.eversolo.com/dmp/instruction/DSP.pdf

 

[Oski1928]

I would go with a higher denon/marantz that has the RC and options you desire. Costs are a “negative” factor in choosing audio equipment. Better to get what you know you want instead of compromise with the hope for better. With a higher option you will get more options for RC including DIRAC ART option as an upgrade should you so desire and the certain knowledge that it will allow individual internal amps to be disconnected from the power rails.

I see your point.

 

[Oski1928]

I have updated the initial post with some new info regarding what has been discussed so far.

 

[rynberg]

Just get the cheaper Denon with full XT32 and, more importantly, app or computer interface for Audyssey. IMO, Audyssey is almost useless without the app/computer interface to set the proper targets.

 

[Oski1928]

Just get the cheaper Denon with full XT32 and, more importantly, app or computer interface for Audyssey. IMO, Audyssey is almost useless without the app/computer interface to set the proper targets.

I used to have a home theater with a Marantz receiver and I have experience with the app. If you watch the Audioholics video on MultEQ-x you will see that the app actually does not do what most people expect it to. It still was a handy feature, but Audyssey never got me great results. However this was in a different room/house with a very poor layout.

 

[ban25]

I’m not trying to make a case for Eversolo, but I want to compare the products accurately. Is anything I said incorrect?

I don't see any inaccuracies. If you like the Eversolo and you're comfortable with REW, it seems like a good choice for you, particularly since you are only concerned with PCM sources.

 

[Tre2023]

The A8 and any receiver equipped with Audyssey will sample signals to 24/48 for DSP. So, if you want all signals left alone, you won't want DSP. Interestingly, the A6 has no DSP but includes an audio only HDMI OUT port for connection to any AVP/AVR that supports DSD/PCM. The A8 has a PCM only ARC input port but no audio only HDMI OUT port. It has an IIS OUT port for connection to a DAC.

If you want to stay with a two channel setup but with DSP and also want to have a TV send two channel PCM signals to it over ARC, the A8 will work for you. If you want to build up the system over time connected to an AVR, the X6800H is a very versatile AVR. Its Front Speaker A/B, 2ch Playback and Bass Extraction settings mean one can customize settings for two channel signals and multichannel signals separately. Some might want different settings to different speakers for 2ch music playback compared to multichannel movie/music playback.

 

[Oski1928]

The A8 and any receiver equipped with Audyssey will sample signals to 24/48 for DSP. So, if you want all signals left alone, you won't want DSP. Interestingly, the A6 has no DSP but includes an audio only HDMI OUT port for connection to any AVP/AVR that supports DSD/PCM. The A8 has a PCM only ARC input port but no audio only HDMI OUT port. It has an IIS OUT port for connection to a DAC.

If you want to stay with a two channel setup but with DSP and also want to have a TV send two channel PCM signals to it over ARC, the A8 will work for you. If you want to build up the system over time connected to an AVR, the X6800H is a very versatile AVR. Its Front Speaker A/B, 2ch Playback and Bass Extraction settings mean one can customize settings for two channel signals and multichannel signals separately. Some might want different settings to different speakers for 2ch music playback compared to multichannel movie/music playback.

I am almost positive that the A6 does indeed support DSP. It received all the DSP features of the A8 as an update quite a while ago now. It also seems that Marantz products do resample audio when not using pure direct but according do Amirm’s reviews they seem to do this at 88/96khz?

Edit: I do see what you are saying about the 6800 though. I actually like the looks of the Cinema 50 as it’s kind of in between the 70 and 40 in regards to height (my preference is in the updated original post). Seems the 50 can be had for $2,000 open box currently. I am now trying to determine differences between the 50 and 6800 for use as a processor front LCR and amp for surrounds/heights (future system proofing). I still can’t help but love the look of the 70 most though.

 

[rynberg]

I used to have a home theater with a Marantz receiver and I have experience with the app. If you watch the Audioholics video on MultEQ-x you will see that the app actually does not do what most people expect it to. It still was a handy feature, but Audyssey never got me great results. However this was in a different room/house with a very poor layout.

I don't need to watch an Audioholics video, I spent a lot of time with Audyssey XT32 and the app, along with REW. The app functioned basically as expected for me, at least in terms of stopping correction at 500 Hz and creating a sloping target response below that. That said, I strongly prefer Anthem ARC to Audyssey, but Anthem receivers are at a different price point (unless you can find a good used 720 or 1120).

 

[peng]

What I read was that you can import REW filters into the FIR filter section on the Eversolo: http://music.eversolo.com/dmp/instruction/DSP.pdf

That link wouldn't work for me for some reason. It sounds like it is tbe Eversolo doing the FIR, not REW. REW might just be providing the data, for Eversolo to create tbe FIR filters. In that case that would make sense. Audyssey MultEQ X uses the same strategy/methodology.

 

[peng]

I used to have a home theater with a Marantz receiver and I have experience with the app. If you watch the Audioholics video on MultEQ-x you will see that the app actually does not do what most people expect it to. It still was a handy feature, but Audyssey never got me great results. However this was in a different room/house with a very poor layout.

I don't know which video you watched, may be an older one? If you watch Audioholics video on the Marantz AV10, they were impressed with what the MultEQ X could do for them.

I have only used the $20 MultEQ Editor app, and I got excellent results, +/- 1.5 dB with no smoothing, for the range 20-140 Hz. I spent hours tweaking though, without tweaking, best I coukd get was about +/- 3.5 to 5 dB, still quite good.

 

[peng]

I am almost positive that the A6 does indeed support DSP. It received all the DSP features of the A8 as an update quite a while ago now. It also seems that Marantz products do resample audio when not using pure direct but according do Amirm’s reviews they seem to do this at 88/96khz?

Edit: I do see what you are saying about the 6800 though. I actually like the looks of the Cinema 50 as it’s kind of in between the 70 and 40 in regards to height (my preference is in the updated original post). Seems the 50 can be had for $2,000 open box currently. I am now trying to determine differences between the 50 and 6800 for use as a processor front LCR and amp for surrounds/heights (future system proofing). I still can’t help but love the look of the 70 most though.

If the look is important the C50 is worth the extra, but in terms of value the X3800H and the X4800H are hard to beat. The X4800H is comparable to the C40. The X6800H has better dac and feature set but cost more, obviously.

At one point I was going to get the Cinema 70 and use it with Dirac Live Bass Contol, using the PC standalone version, would that work for you too?

 

[Oski1928]

If the look is important the C50 is worth the extra, but in terms of value the X3800H and the X4800H are hard to beat. The X4800H is comparable to the C40. The X6800H has better dac and feature set but cost more, obviously.

At one point I was going to get the Cinema 70 and use it with Dirac Live Bass Contol, using the PC standalone version, would that work for you too?

No as I don’t use a pc to listen to music. I have a SSD via USB into whatever source i may get.