Do Audio Speakers Break-in?

[antcollinet]

I've been waiting years for audio speakers to break-in. I even unlocked the front door to make it easier for them.

Bravo.

 

[GXAlan]

Interesting. What changed after the 90's?

My understanding is that ferrofluid dampened resonances for tweeters and also acted as heat transfer for the voice coil to keep it from overheating (and reduce the risk of “blowing a tweeter.”). The XPL90 is rated for a ridiculous 400W of transients before damage.

Advances in tweeter design/adhesives apparently made the resonance issue and overheating issue a non-issue and I think it was understood that ferrofluid was having longevity issues. You just didn’t need that technology anymore.

 

[skyfly]

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matrix-hifi.com

I found this link with a bunch of different vendor replies. Unclear how true the responses are

Valuable anti-break in ones are

1) Scan speak. They say that break in does occur, but their Thiel parameters are for broken-in drivers and they say it can be done in 5 minutes by the cabinet/speaker manufacturer.

2) ATC. As above. No burn in needed.

3) Manger (Germany). They think it's 24 hours. They do it for you at the factory.

4) JBL Pro: Not really an issue. If anything, old age and wearing out is a bigger problem with paper cones.

JBL 4319 Owner's manual.

I am sure that many people will come out and say that the 4319 owner's manual is full of blatant lies because it is a "studio monitor" or a "control monitor" for Asian hi-fi market, not for a "true" pro market.

 

[GXAlan]

JBL 4319 Owner's manual.

I am sure that many people will come out and say that the 4319 owner's manual is full of blatant lies because it is a "studio monitor" or a "control monitor" for Asian hi-fi market, not for a "true" pro market.

I stand corrected (and actually own the 4319).

What is telling is the DD67000 manual

“The Project Everest loudspeaker system is fully functional as soon as it is set up. There may be subtle tonal changes in bass output over the first week to 10 days of operation. These are caused as the movement of the low-frequency drivers becomes more fluid and the parts settle in. This process is completely normal and natural with transducers of this caliber. Even during this initial period, there is no restriction on the amount of amplification that may be applied. Enjoy!”

These are paper pulp/aquaplas treated drivers.

I think one thing that is consistent is that they are not saying it sounds better just that before you move from the +0 dB point, wait for a break in period…

The DD67000 only lets you tune in the +/- 0.4 dB range which would suggest that the break in is less than that.

 

[Jake Cushing]

Puzzled by the number of "Who cares, just listen to music with your speakers and they'll eventually burn in or not, whatevs" comments. Isn't it obvious that new speaker buyers will want to know if they can improve the sound quickly by doing overnight/all-day burn-in sessions?
And isn't this an excellent hi-fi thing to determine anyhow? If this topic is of no interest, why the heck comment at all?

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Puzzled by the number of "Who cares, just listen to music with your speakers and they'll eventually burn in or not, whatevs" comments. Isn't it obvious that new speaker buyers will want to know if they can improve the sound quickly by doing overnight/all-day burn-in sessions?
And isn't this an excellent hi-fi thing to determine anyhow? If this topic is of no interest, why the heck comment at all?

There have been no comments on it for well over a month, so obviously there is little or "no interest" at this point -- other than perhaps yours.

 

[Jake Cushing]

There have been no comments on it for well over a month, so obviously there is little or "no interest" at this point -- other than perhaps yours.

What? That is some tortured logic. There have been 53 pages of comments and 89k views. This topic is the second highest viewed of all on the front page. I shall assume you were one of those commenters I was referring to.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

What? That is some tortured logic. There have been 53 pages of comments and 89k views. This topic is the second highest viewed of all on the front page. I shall assume you were one of those commenters I was referring to.

The discussion has simply run out of steam over time IMO. I don't even remember what I had to say on the topic, my interest in it being just that minuscule. Anyway, let's see if our exchange reanimates what appears from here to be a thoroughly exhausted thread. Peace.

 

[HuubFranssen]

There have been no comments on it for well over a month, so obviously there is little or "no interest" at this point -- other than perhaps yours.

Maybe because everything is said. In the discussion I shared the experience of my set ATC SCM19’s replaced, after 3 months, by a new set because the painting was not perfect. Within moments the sound fell back to what I remembered from 3 months earlier: flat, problems in low and high. Some people all over the globe had the same experience.

Immediately the denial-machine started running: something between the ears, ATC itself denying playing in, no blind comparison and now forgetting.

Last year I started to experience Topping gear: D10, D50e, D90se, PRE90 and now the hilariously ‘Audiophile’ called XLR cables. The D10 and D50e did not last long, the D90se dac appeared to be the best dac I have ever had and replaced an Ayre QB-9 Twenty.

Topping, AudioScienceReview and I have a complicated love-hate relationship. The technicians of Topping are outstanding and ASR made that clear to the world. Topping makes use of that, does not explain too much here and serves the measurement-freaks as well as the audiophiles that happily pay for the ‘best sounding‘ top models. The ASR community only ask theirselves why there are so many versions (featurez they think), question the use of the PRE90 and why they make cables too. Amazon cables are good enough, they think.

It’s exactly what I want. ASR does the testing which is good, Topping will deliver and makes it possible for me to do something more useful with my money.

 

[Jake Cushing]

The discussion has simply run out of steam over time IMO. I don't even remember what I had to say on the topic, my interest in it being just that minuscule. Anyway, let's see if our exchange reanimates what appears from here to be a thoroughly exhausted thread. Peace.

I do agree there is probably nothing more to say on this topic. I just felt like posting an annoyance with the comments that denied validity for the topic to even be discussed. Incidentally, I'm a new speaker purchaser so this topic has relevance for me, and I expect it will continue to have relevance as long as new speakers are made. To waste time with burn-in days, or not... that is (was) the question. Peace too.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I do agree there is probably nothing more to say on this topic. I just felt like posting an annoyance with the comments that denied validity for the topic to even be discussed. Incidentally, I'm a new speaker purchaser so this topic has relevance for me, and I expect it will continue to have relevance as long as new speakers are made. To waste time with burn-in days, or not... that is (was) the question. Peace too.

Welcome to ASR Jake! You have joined the audio "Wild West" forum on the internet. Everyone from hard core engineers to audiophiles believing in tweaks are around here. LOTS of discussion (arguments?) going on all the time about almost everything. You can quickly learn more than you most likely ever wanted to know hanging out here. The #1 issue is to have fun with ASR. If it isn't fun, don't do it!

 

[Jake Cushing]

Welcome to ASR Jake! You have joined the audio "Wild West" forum on the internet. Everyone from hard core engineers to audiophiles believing in tweaks are around here. LOTS of discussion (arguments?) going on all the time about almost everything. You can quickly learn more than you most likely ever wanted to know hanging out here. The #1 issue is to have fun with ASR. If it isn't fun, don't do it!

Thank you, and...

Yeah! That's the Spirit!!

 

[anmpr1]

Isn't it obvious that new speaker buyers will want to know if they can improve the sound quickly by doing overnight/all-day burn-in sessions?

Obvious? No, it isn't. In my day, I've run down a lot of loudspeakers, for better or worse. But in all my purchases I never said to myself, "I wonder if I can quickly improve the loudspeaker's sound by playing it overnight, or running white noise through it for a day or two?" Never once have I thought that.

And in all my years being involved in this sometimes 'scratch my head' hobby, I've never personally known anyone who did think that. Or if they did, they never mentioned it.

There have been 53 pages of comments and 89k views. This topic is the second highest viewed of all on the front page.

53 pages? Your're right. Who would have guessed? I think it just goes to show an intrinsic level of audio neurosis within many of us, in the hobby. I think at one time or another we've all been there. A little neuroticism is OK. As long as it doesn't start to affect your life negatively. Let's face it, thinking that your gear sounds better after a few days of listening is probably harmless. And it could be considered a good thing. Better than buyer's remorse.

However, you have to draw the line. Buying cases of Reynolds Wrap to cover your refrigerator, and all your other electrical appliances, in order to keep out 'stray' electrical interference (like that erstwhile Absolute Sound writer, Enid Lumley) will get your neighbors snickering behind your back, and not endear you to your wife and family.

You don't want to be that guy--like the one in the space alien movie who at dinnertime builds a mountain out of mashed potatoes, then starts carving it up with his fork, saying, "This means something!" You probably don't want to take it that far.

 

[Jake Cushing]

You don't want to be that guy--like the one in the space alien movie who at dinnertime builds a mountain out of mashed potatoes, then starts carving it up with his fork, saying, "This means something!" You probably don't want to take it that far.

Ermm... I think you're over-reacting there. This is speaker burn-in, which most manufacturers recommend. Rather than installing solid gold floor spikes.

As for the 'obvious' question, take my statement and insert the word 'many' as you please, if it helps. Or add another comment to the tune of 'why bother with this topic and thread there's no point', if you please too.

And you're rather missing the point, which is - the question is a legit one - hence the attempt by Amir to measure it.

The film was Close Encounters btw

 

[anmpr1]

Ermm... I think you're over-reacting there. This is speaker burn-in, which most manufacturers recommend. Not buying solid gold stand spikes.

And you're rather missing the point, which is the question is a legit one hence the attempt by Amir to measure it.

The film was Close Encounters btw

I was being funny. Don't take it too seriously. As far as Amir being serious? He's a guy that likes to measure. That's his gig. I think he generally does good work as far as it goes--no one else is really doing what he does, at the volume he does it. But some of the stuff he's concerned with is pretty uninteresting, from strictly a listener's perspective. It's more of an 'engineering' thing. Who is doing the best with what they have to work with, and so on. Remember, there is a lot of stuff we can't hear, but can measure. But not the other way around.

As far as who can hear what, and how to determine it? That was mostly settled, back in the early to mid '70s, within the field of psychoacoustics. Guys like Mark Davis at MIT--although Mark was (as far as I know) working mainly with the perception of electronic circuits in preamps and amps. It was almost always FR (and distortion, and listening levels). FR was what Amir was looking at in Post Number One of this thread.

But on another serious note: have you ever listened to your system one day and found it to be great. Then, the next day, it sounded differently? Then, later, it was great again, and you 'heard' stuff in your music you didn't 'hear' before? I think we've all had that experience. Nothing changed other than the time of day, possibly the outside temperature and barometric pressure, et al. That sort of 'experience' leads to all kinds of postulates, such as "the electricity at night must be somehow 'cleaner' than in the day, because at night my system sounds 'better' to me."

Most people who 'experience' that sort of psychological thing aren't neurotic. They just go with it and get on with their life. Then there are folks like that Stereophile guy, Fremer, who hads his house rewired with special cable to get rid of the gremlins, and then goes on and on about the highs and 'space between the instruments' on his stereo after the new and improved wire. He's the audiophile equivalent to the guy carving up the mashed potatoes in that movie. All I'm saying is that you probably don't want to be that guy.

 

[Steve Dallas]

Ermm... I think you're over-reacting there. This is speaker burn-in, which most manufacturers recommend. Rather than installing solid gold floor spikes.

As for the 'obvious' question, take my statement and insert the word 'many' as you please, if it helps. Or add another comment to the tune of 'why bother with this topic and thread there's no point', if you please too.

And you're rather missing the point, which is - the question is a legit one - hence the attempt by Amir to measure it.

The film was Close Encounters btw

I am sure this has been mentioned before, but... It benefits manufacturers to recommend burn-in, because it serves two purposes:
1. Potentially keeps the speakers in your possession beyond the return window
2. Allows you to adjust to the sound of the new speakers.

 

[anmpr1]

I am sure this has been mentioned before, but... It benefits manufacturers to recommend burn-in, because it serves two purposes:
1. Potentially keeps the speakers in your possession beyond the return window
2. Allows you to adjust to the sound of the new speakers.

You should have bought a lottery ticket this morning, Steve. You've just scored the Daily Double!

That's one reason the audio hobby is not as 'user friendly' as it used to be, when local dealers were an option. Consumers used to be able to go to their dealer, borrow a loudspeaker, sometimes for as much as several weeks, and audition it in their own home. Dealers had dedicated 'demo' units (supposedly 'broken in', although I don't recall that bit of audiophile drama being prevalent back in the day).

I remember doing that with electronics, too. The caveat being you had to pay for it if you broke it.

On a related note: In my area we have a big box store. I suppose Best Buy still has an audio section. I can't imagine anything less appealing than going to a Best Buy and auditioning hi-fi gear. Maybe if I needed a washing machine I'd look in to it.

Guitar stores are an option if you are looking for small shoe-box two way self powered monitors. Most guitar stores have decent return policies.

There's a few 'home theater' specialty installers. I'm not even sure they have an active storefront. You meet with them, or have your builder meet with them, in order to work something out. The lines they carry might not be what you want for hi-fi, and once it's installed in your drywall and ceiling beams, return isn't a good option.

Sad to report--in my area there was a guy who overhauled vintage gear. Mostly McIntosh, but if he was interested and could get parts he'd work on other brands. He recently notified everyone that he's no longer going to take in repairs. Said he's just getting too old for it. Can't even lift the amps up to his workbench.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Guitar stores are an option if you are looking for small shoe-box two way self powered monitors. Most guitar stores have decent return policies.

Not just two-way models -- mine are excellent three-way monitors and they cost me well short of $800 for the pair. I don't think there are any passive speakers plus amp combinations that can touch them for the money.

 

[Freeway]

Puzzled by the number of "Who cares, just listen to music with your speakers and they'll eventually burn in or not, whatevs" comments. Isn't it obvious that new speaker buyers will want to know if they can improve the sound quickly by doing overnight/all-day burn-in sessions?
And isn't this an excellent hi-fi thing to determine anyhow? If this topic is of no interest, why the heck comment at all?

I made one of those comments.
No, it is not obvious what new speaker buyers want to know or do know.
If they want to know if they can improve the sound quickly by doing overnight/all-day burn-in sessions they should just do it.
If they want to use an Irrational But Efficacious CD and it makes them happy just do it.
What is obvious is that it is a moot point. If speakers do burn in, they will.
What is not obvious is whether it makes a difference. I have yet to see any measurements by any manufacturer or reviewer that shows a difference. Actually just the opposite.

 

[YSC]

I was being funny. Don't take it too seriously. As far as Amir being serious? He's a guy that likes to measure. That's his gig. I think he generally does good work as far as it goes--no one else is really doing what he does, at the volume he does it. But some of the stuff he's concerned with is pretty uninteresting, from strictly a listener's perspective. It's more of an 'engineering' thing. Who is doing the best with what they have to work with, and so on. Remember, there is a lot of stuff we can't hear, but can measure. But not the other way around.

As far as who can hear what, and how to determine it? That was mostly settled, back in the early to mid '70s, within the field of psychoacoustics. Guys like Mark Davis at MIT--although Mark was (as far as I know) working mainly with the perception of electronic circuits in preamps and amps. It was almost always FR (and distortion, and listening levels). FR was what Amir was looking at in Post Number One of this thread.

But on another serious note: have you ever listened to your system one day and found it to be great. Then, the next day, it sounded differently? Then, later, it was great again, and you 'heard' stuff in your music you didn't 'hear' before? I think we've all had that experience. Nothing changed other than the time of day, possibly the outside temperature and barometric pressure, et al. That sort of 'experience' leads to all kinds of postulates, such as "the electricity at night must be somehow 'cleaner' than in the day, because at night my system sounds 'better' to me."

Most people who 'experience' that sort of psychological thing aren't neurotic. They just go with it and get on with their life. Then there are folks like that Stereophile guy, Fremer, who hads his house rewired with special cable to get rid of the gremlins, and then goes on and on about the highs and 'space between the instruments' on his stereo after the new and improved wire. He's the audiophile equivalent to the guy carving up the mashed potatoes in that movie. All I'm saying is that you probably don't want to be that guy.

My own most drastic experience is that when I was about to, or should I say started to get sick, feels quite normal after work, switched on the system and listen, it sounds so harsh and irritating to my ears, next day I got fever and go to see the doctor, after that the system sounded great again, also after a hot day working outside and get pretty close to heat stroke any system which normally sounds nice becomes harsh IMO. From that point later I went from believing in burn in to a nay sayer