Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[MacCali]

Denon Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC IC in X4700H and X6700H

Per the Denon website (Google translation from Japanese) in Japan in the product information for at least the X4700H and X6700H AVR's: "The D / A converter IC has been changed since the spring of 2021." The previous DAC IC in the two products is the 8-channel AK4458. This is a rather...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Damn man -_- only way to tell is open that mother trucker up?

 

[MacCali]

Some of these argument seems like "How many angels on a head of a pin"... I'd like to think that I can incrementally improve my audio..
So here is my deal, I'll be getting a X3800H tomorrow, and I've on order an Buckeye Purifi 3-channel amp.
So with even with the less than perfect measurements of the X3800H , it should still be head and shoulders better than what I have, a Onkyo NR656?
I fully admit I'm a dilettante audiophile, but am I making a mistake getting a X3800H?

​

I think as pointed out by Floyd Toole’s research, and you seem to be into audio and for example have a separate setup for stereo listening and you are not using your AVR for everything.

It’s going to be very to distinguish differences in multi channels. Once it goes from 2 to 5 speakers the game has changed.

I have a 7013 and it definitely is an underachiever. However I have always enjoyed it. To increase performance I was going to run the unit on preamp mode, since I recently added a BT player; never owned one.

With 4K discs the performance is monstrous. The experience is way more wild. Especially on TrueHD

I still plan to try running my external amps for a better sinad. But seems like everything is firing legit and I doubt you will have any worries.

***Second, the 3700’s price is high as fudge now. They are just bsing. But you can always return it and save a 100 or wait for those refurbished units to come back on the denon website for 999

 

[dlaloum]

Some of these argument seems like "How many angels on a head of a pin"... I'd like to think that I can incrementally improve my audio..
So here is my deal, I'll be getting a X3800H tomorrow, and I've on order an Buckeye Purifi 3-channel amp.
So with even with the less than perfect measurements of the X3800H , it should still be head and shoulders better than what I have, a Onkyo NR656?
I fully admit I'm a dilettante audiophile, but am I making a mistake getting a X3800H?

​

Depends what you want.

The Buckeye amp will give you more power and current on the fronts (regardless of the AVR)
The X3800 would give you Auro3D, HDMI2 .1 and Audyssey

IMO, the biggest difference will be Audyssey (and perhaps Auro as an upmixer) - but you will need to get the app so you can properly tune it.

If AccuEQ on the NR656 is working well, and you don't need the other features.... then you may not need the AVR upgrade... and you might be able to skip a generation...

 

[Jukebox]

So they added Dirac + Auro and extracted some SINAD...hmm; oh well...I will keep my 3700 (original version) and with the price difference buy some more Artnovion room treatment.
Thank for this Amir!

 

[abdo123]

I wonder. Why don't they manufacture exclusively digital pre-pros, so that the consumer can use the dac of his choice?

Lack of demand.

 

[JSmith]

AVC-X3800H uses 8 PCM5102APWR stereo DACs

Well that's pretty poor... those DAC chips are very cheap, $2.17 for 1000+, released 10 years ago. Max possible THD+N on these is -93dB.

One would expect a better performing, newer DAC in this product. So they cheap out on parts, charge more and think it's all ok? Nah... poor form.


JSmith

 

[valerianf]

"If you decoded the signal already, why would you need an AVR for?"
Even if you are listening in stereo modern AVR are bringing room correction.

 

[JoachimStrobel]

For a couple of years I was following ASR for fun, now I take it serious as I am to buy a new AVR. I look around the magazine stands and the internet. No one except Amir seems to do technical measurements on AVRs any more - pls correct me. Some German magazine do some measurements on crazy expensive stuff where the manufacturer probably buys enough magazine copies to pay for it.
So Amir‘s measurements are the only ones left. Apart from that, I read gloomy prosa elsewhere how deep the bass goes or how cool the gun fire sounds. I like to see more sites or magazines with real measurement and a balance between those and listening sessions. I like to compare. Seeing a Sinad done on a mailed in piece w/o listening and no comparison to other peoples measurements leaves me a bit lost.
That means I have to use common sense. A fully loaded AVR for 2000€? A while ago a paid 1000€ for a 2ch Amp and that was a cheapo. Denon, Marantz? I remember them storming the market in the 70‘s. Sounds like Nordmende and Grundig to me now.
In the good side - Amir‘s reviews are great for driving down prices. I am sure the NAD T778 would not be around for such a low price if the review here would have been better. I „fear“ the same for the poor Denon piece.

 

[NoteMakoti]

I'm a total pseud so I have to ask, what's stopping a competent audio company from making an AVR that measures well?

 

[Berkut]

The 3700H was my first AVC (yeah, over here in France they don't put the radio in it so they don't call them DENON "AVR"). I ordered and received the "in-between" box to fix the 8k-4K/120Hz issue (If I ever get a TV that supports it that is), and I'll be just fine without Dirac. Audissey and its App is simple enough, and I bought a umik-1 mike and used REW to fine-tune the whole thing (sort of). My biggest concern is HEAT. While I can get warm AND enjoy movies in my tiny TV corner in the winter, I must not leave it on for too long in the summer for it is really fighting against the A/C. I think we should all wait untill they put proper/decent class-D modules in those AVRs so that we no longer buy toasters, save on electricity bills etc. Now, there is no point in chasing "better" component performant if your room is not quiet enough. At best, mine is between 40 and 43dB-C at night and/or when none is around....

 

[delta76]

I'm a total pseud so I have to ask, what's stopping a competent audio company from making an AVR that measures well?

So far a lot of them do not care about measurements. At least not enough to force design changes etc.
Avr is a lot more than audio, and the marketing department thinks/knows that they can still sell reasonably well without measurements

 

[GXAlan]

I am confident if someone like me was testing these products 10 years back, we would be in a far better situation than we are now. But that didn't happen so performance slipped backward. Yet the marketing claims are as loud as ever.

My job is to get you more performance for the same cost. Denon's approach here is to charge you more and give you less. This is fundamentally against my mission. No argument of this and that is not probably audible is going to change that.

This 1000000x.

Because of this site, I decided to start measuring my own vintage gear that I liked and it is humbling when you see gear from the 80’s and 90’s trouncing today’s stuff.

Denon did better in 1995.

Denon DA-500 Vintage R2R DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the vintage (?) Denon DA-500 DAC. It was kindly purchased by a member on the used market and drop shipped to me. Interest was to find historic products with something cool about them. In this case, it is the "alpha" processing in the DA-500 which...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I like tubes. I went with a Marantz PM-10 for my integrated amp with HDAMs everywhere. But when it comes to home theater where the circle of confusion is less of an issue, the cleaner the system, the better things sound.

 

[Roland68]

Just think of who can afford a $100 DAC and a headphone compared to $1,699 and boatload of speakers to go with it.

And with more than one person in a household, it's not just about being able to, but also about being allowed to .

 

[TonyJZX]

Lack of demand.

marantz does a fair line of AV processor preamps

unfortunately they tend to bench similar to this thing

I looked at the title pic. with the 'hanging panther' (as it were) and I knew this would be Amir tossing the metaphorical hand grenade into the officers' mess tent.

At the same time., i think the specs are 'fit for purpose' as a HT amp... and reviewers will be find with their competant digital surround processing and the bing bang bongs of Blur ray...

BUt of course the graphs do not reach the expectations of this crowd... nor the price.

I wonder if its PARTLY due to the lack of AKM however we know deep down that the AKMs would not have saved this. This is the standard that the average consumer is fine with.

 

[Sancus]

I'm a total pseud so I have to ask, what's stopping a competent audio company from making an AVR that measures well?

There is nothing really stopping them, the question is, how are they to make any money doing that? Beating basic 2-channel DACs on SINAD is very unlikely, as amir has noted, some headroom is used up by the digital processing.

AVRs have at least 10-100x as much software in them than any 2-channel USB DAC with 0 features. I honestly don't believe that Topping(or any similar company) could actually make a 16-channel AVR like this one with 9 channels of amplification, build the necessary software to run it from scratch, pay for all the licensed software/hardware required, and make any money selling it for ~$1500. They'd probably be losing money for a very long time until they could amortize the software development costs over enough generations the way existing manufacturers have done. They have no brand recognition in home theatre, either.

It is a huge investment in an uncertain market because it's fairly unpredictable whether the HT market will grow or contract over the next 10 years.

 

[PJR918BMW]

Yes, after the plant fire and associated chip shortage they had to change to a lesser chip. Do a thread search and you'll find plenty of discussion about it here.

Someone was able to determine how to tell which DAC your unit has based on serial number. Sadly, mine has the new one.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if your Denon 3700H came with the 8k adaptor or needed one based on serial number - then it has the "old" better AKM DACS. From what I have seen when they fixed the 8K issue on the 3700H they also changed the DAC - which would make sense.
So mine was one of the last that needed adaptor and I pulled it apart and it has the AKM DACS

 

[TonyJZX]

To me these low end of the market is literally a technological wonder. I own a single 'modern' AV receiver... an onkyo mid spec that I picked up for 1/2 price due to the onkyo bankrupt/not bankrupt status... retailers just getting out of Onkyo.

And one wonders how they can package 7 channels, all that processing + streaming + network wifi + license codecs + hdmi latest versions e-arc etc. + room correction etc. in a simple cheapo box.

And the result is they cant do it economically and retain sonic performance and since many markets are going to soundbars then a/v receivers isnt a growth market,

So it doesnt surprise me that the above Denon is like this. My Onkyo doesnt sound nice... like at all.... but that isnt the point.

 

[TimoJ]

Look folks: I already created a special lower tier of performance for AVRs. I no longer slot them in the desktop products. I have also substantially curved my requirement for AV products to get my recommendation.

This "softer" Amir does make some older AVR/AVP reviews very unfair to those products. Units were above the performance of this Denon and still got the headless panther. Maybe you should revise those older reviews?

 

[Vacceo]

"If you decoded the signal already, why would you need an AVR for?"
Even if you are listening in stereo modern AVR are bringing room correction.

If there was an easy way to decode on a PC, you'd be able to easily have both.

My ultimate wet dream is to combine everything in an active speaker.

 

[Haskil]

I gave my AKM DAC model 4700H a hug this morning.

But people have to remember - the option for Dirac + correcting 4 subs independently is a game changer... for a mainstream product

A Home Cinema enthusiast who has four subwoofers to manage therefore has a very sophisticated and very technical installation possibly in Atmos... Will he buy a device that promises this functionality for 2024 and be satisfied with a device whose the pure performances are in regression compared to the previous generation of AVR?
What's more is equipped with pre out outputs delivering a level too low for many power amps including subwoofers? There is a contradiction between the sub outputs and the fact that they are RCA and deliver too low a level without stress...