Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[voodooless]

View attachment 243670

Ah, okay, so they are mutually exclusive. I wonder why though... That may be a licensing thing. So that then means there is no bass correction at all in directional mode?

BTW, good that somebody actually reads these massive manuals

 

[Trell]

Ah, okay, so they are mutually exclusive. I wonder why though... That may be a licensing thing. So that then means there is no bass correction at all in directional mode?

BTW, good that somebody actually reads these massive manuals

From the manual snippets it’s not clear how this actually works. I guess we’ll have to wait until some gets their hands on one for testing.

 

[peng]

You seem to overinterpret my simple statement. I was just trying to give one example why somebody interested in the 4 sub outs might look forward to DLBC.

Feel free to replace "basshead" with e. g. "tasteful audiophile" (or just some other fitting characterization of some group of people with a specific interest in audio) if this is more to your liking. I won't disagree because I was aware of the usefulness of multiple subs before your kind and of course correct remark. But even after an adjustment the example remains just an example.

Let me try to make my major point in a different way. The 4 independent sub outs may be interesting for some or even many. For those, DL without BC does not make the most sense. The two most reasonable options seem to be either staying with Audyssey or aiming at DLBC. I am not making any recommendation for one over the other. But the RZ50 may not be an alternative here.

I do share his point on the DLBC part, that we don't really know when it will be available, if ever?, and the cost (other than what might have been speculated..). Until the DL pay upgrade becomes available, in the mean time it would have been nice if Denon/Audyssey would do a FW update to take advantage of the 4 independent outputs soon. That's even if it will be just to do the auto time align as it current does with the two independent outputs on the 2020 models. If I remember reading it right, according to Audyssey, it can be done, but is up to D+M to implement the feature. Or, I may be wrong, perhaps the 2022/23 D+M AVRs do have the capability to time align 4 subs already?

 

[peng]

The way that they test it, there is no sensible way for them to write a bad review, as all the potential flaws are not properly revealed in their testing, and therefore all AVRs are the same except the interface...

Their BS like narrative on the individual sound signature of the numerous reviewed AVRs (feel like at least one a week!!) are hilarious to some of us who trust audio science a lot more than their subjective reviews, but to the less technically informed public I don't find it funny at all. In fact, feel sad about how and why so many people are easily fooled by such reviews. Haven't said that, it may not be a disservice to those people either because if they believe in them, then presumably those who wanted a punchy, bold and crisp sound they would go with a Denon, for sound that is on the bright, details side they would go for a Yamaha, and for smoothness, resolution, refine kind of sound especially for music, then go with Marantz, and for neutral sound, go with Onkyo's RZ50 or Anthem etc.... With such preconception planted in their heads by the likes of A. Robinson (not picking on him, but only remember his name because he has numerous such reviews on Youtube.

 

[Trell]

I do share his point on the DLBC part, that we don't really know when it will be available, if ever?, and the cost (other than what might have been speculated..). Until the DL pay upgrade becomes available, in the mean time it would have been nice if Denon/Audyssey would do a FW update to take advantage of the 4 independent outputs soon. That's even if it will be just to do the auto time align as it current does with the two independent outputs on the 2020 models. If I remember reading it right, according to Audyssey, it can be done, but is up to D+M to implement the feature. Or, I may be wrong, perhaps the 2022/23 D+M AVRs do have the capability to time align 4 subs already?

Audyssey can support four subwoofers and has had that capability for many years.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212343803-SubEQ-HT-vs-MultEQ-XT32?sort_by=created_at

"Audyssey Labs July 10, 2012 16:23
Hi Jay, this is already available from Audyssey. However no AVR maker has yet allowed control of 4 independent subs."

 

[jpqpi]

I looked at the Denon 4800H spec page and I can't see a reason to buy it. The 4700 has Auro-3D while the 3700 did not. The 4700 has a front HDMI port nice for REW while the 3700 did not. And the 4700 has a 2-line display while the 3700 did not.

Now we compare the 3800 to the 4800. Both receivers have Auro-3D. Neither receiver has a front HDMI port. The 4800 has a 2-line display but that's not enough to pay $500 more for? The 25W amp difference doesn't matter as anyone serious about more power will use an external amp. As far as I can see, Denon cut most of the reasoning for buying a 4800 over the 3800.

The denon 4700 also came in silver which I preferred the look of

 

[jpqpi]

"Any X3700H you can buy new today (manufactured after May 2021 and ending with a serial number higher than 70001) has the same TI DACs as found in the X3800H and therefore the same SINAD performance".

Would the same apply to an X4700H bought new today and the new X4800H?

Yes, it also applies to 4700 model (6700 too I believe)

 

[amper42]

My AKM Denon 4700 receivers have serial numbers below 001500 and another below 002500. I have not seen the serial number of a 4700 with TI DACS.

 

[GalZohar]

Their BS like narrative on the individual sound signature of the numerous reviewed AVRs (feel like at least one a week!!) are hilarious to some of us who trust audio science a lot more than their subjective reviews, but to the less technically informed public I don't find it funny at all. In fact, feel sad about how and why so many people are easily fooled by such reviews. Haven't said that, it may not be a disservice to those people either because if they believe in them, then presumably those who wanted a punchy, bold and crisp sound they would go with a Denon, for sound that is on the bright, details side they would go for a Yamaha, and for smoothness, resolution, refine kind of sound especially for music, then go with Marantz, and for neutral sound, go with Onkyo's RZ50 or Anthem etc.... With such preconception planted in their heads by the likes of A. Robinson (not picking on him, but only remember his name because he has numerous such reviews on Youtube.

I know many who insist that different AVRs have a "different sound signature" and that they "heard such a large difference that will surely be detectable in a blind test". Some probably haven't even watched youtube reviews that gave them that bias. Just the price alone seems to have an effect, or possibly just faulty testing (non-equal levels/settings/etc). This is supposedly with all DSP off, so no differences due to different DSP/EQ/etc

 

[amper42]

Different AVR's can sound different simply because of different electronics, quality of parts and various features. Some AVR's don't have a PURE mode. And in PURE mode most AVR's have DSP turned off as well as other features. It's not unusual for users to prefer DSP/EQ so most don't typically use PURE for anything but a reference point. While YouTube receiver reviews are typically a waste of time - you certainly can hear differences between receiver models. It may be a little or a lot depending on how mismatched the receivers are. The problem is it's hard to AB two receivers without an identical speaker/source setup where you can simply switch between them with a button. That difficulty leads to unpredictable conclusions. But to think all receivers sound the same would be a mistake.

 

[GXAlan]

I know many who insist that different AVRs have a "different sound signature" and that they "heard such a large difference that will surely be detectable in a blind test". Some probably haven't even watched youtube reviews that gave them that bias. Just the price alone seems to have an effect, or possibly just faulty testing (non-equal levels/settings/etc). This is supposedly with all DSP off, so no differences due to different DSP/EQ/etc

If you look at the 1 kHz comparison between a Sony ES AVR and a Yamaha Pre-Pro, they're pretty close but when you go into multitone, the difference is much bigger.

Are Yamaha products more musical than Sony products? (Quick Measurements)

Quick and simple comparison, where I'm just looking at two measurements from the pre-outs of two classic products in pure-direct modes 1) Sony STR-ZA5000ES - Similar digital front end as the STR-Z1100ES tested here but with beefier amplifier section - 90 dB ASR DAC SINAD on APx555 2) Yamaha...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Since the Sony multitone is 79 dB and you have to then add the loss from the amplification stage, the numbers do get into the range of potentially different in sound.

The 1000 tone multitone is "tougher" than the 32 tone multitone so the numbers do shift. It's certainly plausible that different AVRs sound different in real content.

Likewise, since the volume control in most AVRs is in 0.5 dB increments, it's possible for one manufacturer to be 0.25 dB louder, so it would be "as closely matched as possible" but sound different based upon non-equal levels.

 

[peng]

I know many who insist that different AVRs have a "different sound signature" and that they "heard such a large difference that will surely be detectable in a blind test". Some probably haven't even watched youtube reviews that gave them that bias. Just the price alone seems to have an effect, or possibly just faulty testing (non-equal levels/settings/etc). This is supposedly with all DSP off, so no differences due to different DSP/EQ/etc

I also think price is a hugh factor for a lot of people.

Different AVR's can sound different simply because of different electronics, quality of parts and various features. Some AVR's don't have a PURE mode. And in PURE mode most AVR's have DSP turned off as well as other features. It's not unusual for users to prefer DSP/EQ so most don't typically use PURE for anything but a reference point. While YouTube receiver reviews are typically a waste of time - you certainly can hear differences between receiver models. It may be a little or a lot depending on how mismatched the receivers are. The problem is it's hard to AB two receivers without an identical speaker/source setup where you can simply switch between them with a button. That difficulty leads to unpredictable conclusions. But to think all receivers sound the same would be a mistake.

Agreed in general, and if they would qualify their statements, or even just include a liitle cautionary notes/caveat about the potential causes you mentioned, I would have taken them more seriously. But they never do! So for many beginners (just an example) in this hobby, they would likely ve led to believe it is a known fact that for bold, forward, punchy sound, go Denon, for smooth, detailed, musical sound, go with Marantz, or even better, Arcam, and go with separate Marantz, Anthem, Yamaha, Arcam AVPs, because they (those reviewers) all basically have said the same, in their YT reviews.

 

[ban25]

"Any X3700H you can buy new today (manufactured after May 2021 and ending with a serial number higher than 70001) has the same TI DACs as found in the X3800H and therefore the same SINAD performance".

Would the same apply to an X4700H bought new today and the new X4800H?

The whole line, basically anything manufactured by Sound United after May 2021.

Marantz Replaces AKM AK4458 DAC with Texas Instruments DAC IN SR6015, SR7015 AND SR8015

According to Marantz, "All units with the serial # ending in 70001 or higher have the TI DAC [most likely the PCM1502A DAC found in the Denon AVRs]. The only exception is the AV8805A pre-pro. That now uses a DAC made by ESS". I hope this helps new AVR customers decide if they still want to buy a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Entropy]

Meh, whatever. Kind of sad to see them take a step backwards like this. Solid "Not terrible."

 

[m571]

for me it is really strange that it is advertised as 9.4 avr and it has 11 speaker ports, and I cant make a sense of that!

Is it possible to use it as 7.2.4 without the extra amp for the 2nd hieghts pair?

I think this applies to x3700h, x3800h and x4800h

 

[voodooless]

Is it possible to use it as 7.2.4 without the extra amp for the 2nd hieghts pair?

This is what the manual says:

 

[delta76]

for me it is really strange that it is advertised as 9.4 avr and it has 11 speaker ports, and I cant make a sense of that!

Is it possible to use it as 7.2.4 without the extra amp for the 2nd hieghts pair?

I think this applies to x3700h, x3800h and x4800h

it has 9 channel amplification, and 11 channel processing.
and no, you can't use 7.2.4 without external amp. it's highly advised against connecting two speakers to one port, can seriously damage the amp.

 

[m571]

Yes I get it what the manual says, its just misleading the 11 speaker ports don‘t you think?

 

[delta76]

Yes I get it what the manual says, its just misleading the 11 speaker ports don‘t you think?

not really. a lot of other AVR do just that. they have more processing power (usually already "included") than amplification power (adding an amp channel is more complicated, especially with power limit). Why add 9 speaker outs if you can have 11? Both for customers' convenience and marketing purposes.

a common practice is to add an external amp for front speakers to off load the AVR. (home theatre purists will use entirely external amps, but that is very much overkill IMO)

 

[Narnian]

Yes I get it what the manual says, its just misleading the 11 speaker ports don‘t you think?

Not really. Other systems do this and Denon and done it for a while. You can use all of the speaker connections but that would require using Zone 2, Front B speakers, etc. It gives you some flexibility you would not have otherwise.