GR Research LGK 2.0 Kit Speaker Review (video)

[PeteL]

You say that, but I found that it was impossible to know without measuring, by virtue that you can never guarantee where specific sounds are supposed to be imaged on the soundstage in a recording. And anecdotally I certainly felt that after the balancing that certain smooth left & right panning sound effects seemed to be a lot more balanced around my head - sound effects that are supposed to loop around your head. I also noticed that pinpointing voices in duets and when 3 people singing I could tell there positions were a bit more succinct - I think with unbalanced channels there was less positional distinction. I really don't think you can tune these things by ear, I'm sure you really have to do them by measurements.

EDIT: it's certainly worth doing the same thing for speakers at your listening position if you always listen at the same point.

Ok, but I was talking about lead vocals and Kick, not harmony signing and looping fx. It is indeed reassuring to know that both channels are equal, but my point is still, are they equal at the eardrum. The earshape of your mini DSP are not yours. Personally, for exemple, i have been hearing channel imbalance with my Iems,vocals wher a few degree off until i realised Ineeded a medium tip on the left eR and a large tip on the right for proper seal. Measurments would not have told me that but my ears did

 

[Robbo99999]

Ok, but I was talking about lead vocals and Kick, not harmony signing and looping fx. It is indeed reassuring to know that both channels are equal, but my point is still, are they equal at the eardrum. The earshape of your mini DSP are not yours. Personally, for exemple, i have been hearing channel imbalance with my Iems,vocals wher a few degree off until i realised Ineeded a medium tip on the left eR and a large tip on the right for proper seal. Measurments would not have told me that but my ears did

They don't have to be equal at your eardrum, they have to be equal at your "outer ear" - just like how an environmental sound would be in the real world when you're living your everyday life on the streets & in your offices, etc.......ie each of your ears will not necessarily amplify to the same degree by the time it gets to your eardrum (due to anatomical imperfections that you're already acclimatised to), so a natural balance for a headphone would indeed be a measured balance on a perfectly symmetrical rig like miniDSP EARS or GRAS or whatever.

(You also can't guarantee that lead vocals & kick will be dead central on all tracks)

You have to rely on measurements to best balance left & right for speakers & also for headphones.

 

[Billy Budapest]

(This is not super super obvious distortion in this vid). I definitely wouldn't worry about your ears.

I suggest you listen again. Listen to the vocal at the beginning of the clip and compare to slightly later. The distortion is very audible and unpleasant.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Man, I think I'm wasting money on the audio equipment. I just listen to the sound clip again in Amir's video, and I can't say I can hear clear distortion.
As Robbo99999 said, I need a point of reference in order to know what I'm listening for.

The point of reference is the vocal at the very beginning of the clip. Compare to the vocal at the end.

 

[Madjalapeno]

My pleasure. I post most of my test tracks elsewhere but can't find them now. Maybe one of the members has bookmarked it. I will post the female tracks which this one is part of soon.

I found this list somewhere. (edit, and another that I've added to as I see reviews.

 

[DualTriode]

@amirm,

From a technical or academic point of view this is a very good video. If we could leave your dust up with Danny out of it I would like it better.

At the about 12 minute mark in the video you speak about midrange colorization coming from the port because of enclosure/port resonances. This is really interesting. I suppose that this “midrange colorization” even shows up as 2nd and 3rd harmonics on the distortion plots.

You have me wondering about sealed enclosures, can sealed enclosure resonances bounce around inside the enclosure and transmit back out through the drivers’ cone. Or put another way do sealed enclosures suffer the same “midrange colorization” to a degree?

Thanks DT

 

[Robbo99999]

The point of reference is the vocal at the very beginning of the clip. Compare to the vocal at the end.

I had thought about that aspect, but with no control track to listen against it was a stab in the dark. I had noticed it was a bit smoother in general at the beginning, but it was a close call. I don't like these speaker recordings, it's a no-go for me (for reasons mentioned in prior posts), I don't recommend we continue doing this (sorry for repeating myself, lol, just I feel strongly about it!).

 

[bo_knows]

The point of reference is the vocal at the very beginning of the clip. Compare to the vocal at the end.

I tried, sorry, this recording is just too low resolution for me to have an a-ha moment. The vocal didn't sound good, to begin with.

 

[DSJR]

Man, I think I'm wasting money on the audio equipment. I just listen to the sound clip again in Amir's video, and I can't say I can hear clear distortion.
As Robbo99999 said, I need a point of reference in order to know what I'm listening for.

Hint - think Dalek voice, only not as severe...

 

[Robbo99999]

Hint - think Dalek voice, only not as severe...

Naaa

 

[DSJR]

You really don't notice it? It genuinely gets worse on her voice as the segment goes on... Ever heard bass 'doubling' or even 'tripling' if a baby speaker gets pushed too hard on bassy music? A US company made an effects box that did it deliberately to kind of 'enhance' the bass tones in a recording (I forget what it was called.

 

[Robbo99999]

You really don't notice it? It genuinely gets worse on her voice as the segment goes on... Ever heard bass 'doubling' or even 'tripling' if a baby speaker gets pushed too hard on bassy music? A US company made an effects box that did it deliberately to kind of 'enhance' the bass tones in a recording (I forget what it was called.

I put my descriptions earlier, I noticed something, but it wasn't blindingly obvious, these speaker recordings are flawed on a fundamental level. But to be clear, I'm not defending this speaker, no way on earth I would ever buy it, not for £20, I just wouldn't want it in my house....instead I'm talking about the limitations of the test which I have described in earlier posts.

EDIT: I'm pleased the dude is considering redesigning his speaker, and he seems just a little humbled by it....heck, he's got to make a living & I hope he does it by making better speakers.

EDIT #2: you might have also noticed that I can notice distortion in blind tests:

https://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/?page=test&testrunId=663101&step=17&answer=1

 

[ernestcarl]

If you want a small or compact, single driver and self powered speaker I suggest getting something like the ff. instead:

6301NB - 4" Active Monitor Speaker 20W D-Class (Single)

Fostex 6301NB - 4" Active Monitor Speaker 20W D-Class (Single)

Buy Fostex 6301NB - 4" Active Monitor Speaker 20W D-Class (Single) featuring 1/4" TS Unbalanced Input, Compact Design, 4" Driver, 20W D-Class Amplifier, Rotary Level Control, Magnetically Shielded, Multi-Voltage Power Supply, Auto Standby Mode: Draws 0.5W, Optional Mounting Bracket Available...

www.bhphotovideo.com

Multiple versions out there… also no real reason to get the more expensive transformer balanced version.

It doesn’t quite have the “sparkle” and “air” of a monitor with a dedicated HF driver, but I’ve never been disappointed of how neutral it sounds compared to other more expensive monitors. It also sounds even better when combined with a sub. No need for extra expense of external amplification and “crossover upgrades”. It just works out of the box as intended.

 

[abdo123]

I tried, sorry, this recording is just too low resolution for me to have an a-ha moment. The vocal didn't sound good, to begin with.

it's like the vocalist is gurgling bourbon in between takes in the studio.

 

[Robbo99999]

it's like the vocalist is gurgling bourbon in between takes in the studio.

lol, noooooo. Again, I'm not defending this speaker.

 

[Ageve]

I tried, sorry, this recording is just too low resolution for me to have an a-ha moment. The vocal didn't sound good, to begin with.

The distortion is very bad from 25:25, and gets worse as the volume goes up. Just listen to her voice. She almost sounds like a frog.

From the GR-Research store:
The LGK 2.0 uses a small 3″ wide-band driver providing a smooth response from to 80Hz to 20KHz and at an impressive 84dB.

 

[Robbo99999]

The distortion is very bad from 25:25, and gets worse as the volume goes up. Just listen to her voice. She almost sounds like a frog.

From the GR-Research store:
The LGK 2.0 uses a small 3″ wide-band driver providing a smooth response from to 80Hz to 20KHz and at an impressive 84dB.

(Ok, I'm gonna stop responding to these exaggerations even though I'm not defending this speaker......have at it, but the test is flawed, and I've said my part).

 

[Thomas_A]

I wonder if this is really IM distortion, or just fundamentals of the gross distortion in the bass that modulates the voice range.

 

[amirm]

I think that would help, but at the same time you need a reference point to compare to that is controlled - an A/B that is under the same conditions, with just the distortion as the variable.

The reference point was the start of the clip where the levels were low enough for the distortion to be obvious. By the time it was clearly audible, I provided a signal with my gesture. I also played it again a second time with no signaling from me.

I did a ton of testing and comparisons to make sure what I was hearing live, is what got conveyed in video. The only tricky part was to have the volume set high enough on your headphone to hear the clean part at the start.

Ultimately if you are having a hard time hearing the distortion, then that is fine. It makes the point that we better not generalize about audibility of distortion to everyone. Our detection ability varies widely on this front (although this speaker's distortion presents a very easy test case).

 

[Ageve]

(Ok, I'm gonna stop responding to these exaggerations even though I'm not defending this speaker......have at it, but the test is flawed, and I've said my part).

I wasn't exaggerating.

A recording of a better speaker could perhaps be helpful in this case, as an example of how it should sound (and to verify that it isn't caused by the recording equipment).

I dislike Youtube speaker demos as well, but this is something else. The recording is good enough since the problems are audible.