The REAL Problem of March Audio's Sointuva WG (Review, Measurements and Reinforcements with Klippel device)

[Laserjock]

Is the owner of these speakers happy now and are they “fixed” ?

Is this the only pair to be found “defective”?

 

[sq225917]

Amator, Guarani, Stradivari, Cromonese, they still do lots of solid wood models.

 

[Paweł L]

I think Opera, another Italian manufacturer builds enclosures from wood. Very nice looking loudspeakers. They use Scan and Seas drivers.

 

[Holmz]

Blockboard was used for making furniture for hundreds of years before the invention of plywood or MDF.
…

I call B.S. - but can you provide a link for what BlockBoard is?
I am not sure when MDF was invented, but using plywood… way back in Mesopotamia times… seems as old as using degree:minute:seconds, or hours:minutes:seconds.

Is Mesopotamia before or after Noah’s ark?
Maybe he used BlockBoard?

…Often it was veneered with exotic timbers.It is a stable product.That is what is used on the March audio speakers.

And I call B.S. again.

I was down at the woodworking shop last week, and there were at least 8 boxes, they were all solid wood, assembled with the resin/epoxy filing small splits and gaps, and ready for sanding.
It certainly did not look like a veneer.

@jtgofish your statements are lacking fact.

 

[zora]

Ohio has some odd sales restrictions that sniff too much like religion influencing public policy. In most places, you cannot buy alcohol before 11 on Sundays. It can differ by establishment too though. One local grocery store told me they can sell beer but not wine before 11. Btw, anything harder has to be bought at a state store and they usually have much more limited hours.

It doesn’t just “sniff” of religion guiding public policy, it was the clear reason for the establishment of these blue laws (I am a POLS professor). I live next to a “dry” town in WA State, and no surprise - the town grew around a small religious college.

 

[JSmith]

BlockBoard

Definition of blockboard: a plywood board in which veneer layers used in the core are replaced by blocks of wood, the direction of grain of the blocks running at right angles to that of the adjacent veneer.

Maxiply | Architectural Plywood for Architects & Interior Designers

Maxiply is an architectural plywood supplier. Premium plywood sheets for Architects & Interior Designers. 12mm, 18mm & 24mm plywood panels.

www.maxiply.com.au

... I don't think this has anything to do with March Audio's speakers though, as you're saying. The various woods used were listed and dissected earlier in the thread.


JSmith

 

[fluid]

I was down at the woodworking shop last week, and there were at least 8 boxes, they were all solid wood, assembled with the resin/epoxy filing small splits and gaps, and ready for sanding.
It certainly did not look like a veneer.

There are some videos on March's You Tube site that show the cabinets being completely made of solid wood.

 

[jtgofish]

I call B.S. - but can you provide a link for what BlockBoard is?
I am not sure when MDF was invented, but using plywood… way back in Mesopotamia times… seems as old as using degree:minute:seconds, or hours:minutes:seconds.

Is Mesopotamia before or after Noah’s ark?
Maybe he used BlockBoard?




And I call B.S. again.

I was down at the woodworking shop last week, and there were at least 8 boxes, they were all solid wood, assembled with the resin/epoxy filing small splits and gaps, and ready for sanding.
It certainly did not look like a veneer.

@jtgofish your statements are lacking fact.

Yes you are right.The boxes are solid timber.My mistake.I thought I saw a picture of these speakers which was made using blockboard but can't seem to find it.Regardless of this I think using solid timber and most especially jarrah for these boxes is fine.As I have said Sonus Faber and a couple of other Italian makers have been doing that for ages.Probably not a good idea on larger speakers but for compact speakers it will be fine.
I have built quite a lot of speakers and believe solid jarrah sounds the best.It is a slow growing medium to high density short grained timber and is very non-resonant and avoids the dreaded "MDF honk".It is also one of the most stable timbers.Sonus Faber use walnut and that is far less stable.

 

[Holmz]

Yes you are right.The boxes are solid timber.My mistake.I thought I saw a picture of these speakers which was made using blockboard but can't seem to find it.Regardless of this I think using solid timber and most especially jarrah for these boxes is fine.As I have said Sonus Faber and a couple of other Italian makers have been doing that for ages.Probably not a good idea on larger speakers but for compact speakers it will be fine.
I have built quite a lot of speakers and believe solid jarrah sounds the best.It is a slow growing medium to high density short grained timber and is very non-resonant and avoids the dreaded "MDF honk".It is also one of the most stable timbers.Sonus Faber use walnut and that is far less stable.

That is a very gentlemanly reply from you.
(Sorry if I came across as a bit harsh earlier.)

I did pick up some accelerometers a while back to do some measurements. I suppose that I should get going on that.

Hey - If you are using Jarrah, then you must be relatively close by to where I am at??

I was pretty shocked when I found out that plywood is as old as it is. It was at a raffle for a hardware shop, and strangely we won the store credit.

 

[jhaider]

is very non-resonant and avoids the dreaded "MDF honk".

MDF honk? Where do these things come from???

Admittedly, I don’t like MDF generally. When I’ve commissioned (or built, though those were truly sad) cabinets I always spec’ed a hardwood plywood because MDF suffers crunched corners more easily and swells like crazy if it gets wet. But those are real things, not imagined sonic differences.

 

[Holmz]

MDF honk? Where do these things come from???
…

Maybe from the old “Honkie Talk” music?
I dunno for sure… but the youngest said that there were a family of geese in a cemetery that was being using a short cut in the car… and that the geese and goslings were just bolting across the road.
I asked, “Did you honk at them?”

 

[Thomas_A]

The MDF ”honk”:

Speaker enclosure vibrations - a few measurements with accelerometer

There are been quite a number of threads dealing with vibrations in speaker cabinets, both in relation to "speaker feet" and vibrations in enclosures themselves. I recently took out my ACH01 accelerometer to do some measurements, both speaker feet and enclosures. There was some initial...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[JSmith]

The MDF ”honk”

Wasn't that a limited test set though, as in only 19mm MDF and on one DIY speaker?


JSmith

 

[Thomas_A]

Wasn't that a limited test set though, as in only 19mm MDF and on one DIY speaker?


JSmith

Sure it was. But it indicates how standard 19 mm MDF behaves in small enclosures. The interesting part is the non-linearities which are more difficult to explain.

 

[sigbergaudio]

It's completely viable to build enclosures in MDF without getting resonance problems as indicated in that thread and without doing multilayer walls. There are also several different density grades of MDF, and finally you have water resistant MDF. So MDF != MDF.

 

[Nuyes]

If it hasn't be said before along the long trail of these long posts. your English is incredibly good without any doubt.

I rely on Google Translator
So sometimes I... It may be rude or misleading.
Still, I am very glad that many Members understand this.

 

[Thomas_A]

It's completely viable to build enclosures in MDF without getting resonance problems as indicated in that thread and without doing multilayer walls. There are also several different density grades of MDF, and finally you have water resistant MDF. So MDF != MDF.

Agree about that. However the question about the nonlinear behavior of a fully glued MDF cabinet remains. It should not behave like that during normal conditions. What could introduce nonlinearities is the transition of driver to enclosure, including bolt torque.

 

[sq225917]

Mdf honk, more like large unsupported panel honk. Brace it and fill it with enough batting to mitigate the higher resonamce

 

[Vacceo]

I call B.S. - but can you provide a link for what BlockBoard is?
I am not sure when MDF was invented, but using plywood… way back in Mesopotamia times… seems as old as using degree:minute:seconds, or hours:minutes:seconds.

Is Mesopotamia before or after Noah’s ark?
Maybe he used BlockBoard?




And I call B.S. again.

I was down at the woodworking shop last week, and there were at least 8 boxes, they were all solid wood, assembled with the resin/epoxy filing small splits and gaps, and ready for sanding.
It certainly did not look like a veneer.

@jtgofish your statements are lacking fact.

Babylonians indeed used it and it's quite possible that Akkadians before too.

However, the widespread use started with Greek first, and specially Roman shield construction.

The Deluge myth is older, Sumerian (at least), as it is first referenced in Gilgamesh's Poem

 

[Holmz]

…
The Deluge myth is older, Sumerian (at least), as it is first referenced in Gilgamesh's Poem

Every culture has those flood stories, including the oldest one of the Australian aboriginals.
The locals just did not do plywood, nor were their stories written down.

But these speakers are not plywood, and these low distortion unicorns are also sold “two by two”.