The quest for my hyper speaker - Very Large room dilemma

[GXAlan]

This would definitely be on the docket if I were to choose going the DIY route, which may be the case if I can't find something suitable.

Why not DIY with Meyer Sound or JBL Professional in that case?

Nobody mentioned the Beolab 90.

Beolab 90 - Ultimate High-End 8,200W Speakers | B&O

Perhaps the world's most advanced digital loudspeaker. Bang & Olufsen's flagship stereo speakers adapting seamlessly to your living space.

www.bang-olufsen.com

B&O Tech: Intuitive Directivity Plots

#46 in a series of articles about the technology behind Bang & Olufsen loudspeakers I’ve been writing and presenting a lot of information over the past couple of months about the g…

www.tonmeister.ca

There are these measurements. Seems like it’s a great option if that’s in your budget. Would be good to get subjective opinions against your JBL 4349 and Focal’s.

@Kal Rubinson reviewed them here:

Bang & Olufsen BeoLab 90 loudspeaker

Bang & Olufsen's BeoLab 90 is not a loudspeaker to take on lightly. Though its size49.33" high by 28.9" wide by 29.4" deepand weight (302 lbs each) meant a major disruption of my listening room, which is also our living room, my wife assented. Its price of $84,990/pair puts it far beyond...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Momomo67890]

Diy gets tedious and takes time if I wasn't retired and in my mid 30s with 70k In woodworking tools and plenty of time on my hands I wouldn't touch diy. But I do so here I am researching cld box design mdf vs ply ? Alu ? Vs mass dampening do I use rubber to dampen the drivers or nah or maybe hold the magnets with rubber too ?or should I use sorbothane its better then rubber right ? Poly fill vs wool vs foam vs butyl alu goop ? Bracing matrix, cld , dowels ? cardioid ? Should every driver have its own amp? dsp? Fir ? Subs ported, sealed, pr, tl, bandpass i missed a few options????? Cross overs outside the vocal range ? 2 way 3 way 4 way 5 way 6 way, synergy horn, mtm, line array ? Ctc distance .25 or 1.4? Cone material? Low le? high excursion All questions that need answers. What makes drivers sound fast ? Imd vs thd ? Amp choises class a ,ab,d,h ?That's just what I can think of off the top of my head all these questions need answers.

 

[sarumbear]

Would you rather see the complete results from a medical study where you can draw your own conclusion or only see the interpreted results?

Only if I’m a specialist doctor.

 

[Snickers-is]

This first one is custom. This model was designed for use with subwoofer towers and is capable of some serious SPL levels. These are active. For a large room some more cardioid features would be useful.

This is a soon to be released model form Ø Audio. 15 inch Tonalab woofer with a custom 460mm horn and Tonalab carbon ring radiator. I think they may be planning for an even larger model. This has passive xo.

 

[srrxr71]

If you have a big room maybe with a lot of acoustic issues arising I'd recommend a floor standing D'Appolito speaker. This way you have an "audio lense" and avoid many ceiling and floor bounces naturally and have a much higher ratio of pure source material vs. reverb.

For visualising:
View attachment 282095

Plus it should be at least three way, better four way.

That's just my opinion, but I reckon this is probably the best idea if you don't want to get a reverb party.

One moment, please...

Krell LAT-1. Only $9k. Old but probably will last forever.

 

[ocinn]

@Kal Rubinson reviewed them here:

Bang & Olufsen BeoLab 90 loudspeaker

Bang & Olufsen's BeoLab 90 is not a loudspeaker to take on lightly. Though its size49.33" high by 28.9" wide by 29.4" deepand weight (302 lbs each) meant a major disruption of my listening room, which is also our living room, my wife assented. Its price of $84,990/pair puts it far beyond...

www.stereophile.com

Polars & dispersion on (page 17-19).

They likely cannot do 115db peaks at OP's desired distance. But their cardioid response, and flexibility to be able to go omni for background music, is perfect. Also, they look like art. I've heard them a dozen times. I think their "focused listening (narrow)" mode is lacking vs. dedicated hi-fi speakers. But they are versatile, so it's just a sensible trade-off.

But yeah I don't really see how you can hit the spl goals for that space without compression driver'd pro speakers, or, line sources.

Has OP considered JBL CBT1000? Would look quite nice with a refinish, and crossed to subs they can effortlessly do 128db in room. CBT too so should throw nicely.

 

[OCA]

Thank you so much for the info re Mini DSP, I did not know that at all. I use their products in 2 of my systems so perhaps I hay have to rethink it for bass correction. As for the hyperspeaker I am currently in the process of emailing various manufacturers to get the requisite data. If they provide and allow me, I will share on this forum.
It is a real privilage for me to live where I do. I am still in my mid 30's so the knees are holding well enough for 30ish days of snowboarding a year.
Also, I too respect people I disagree with but I tend to draw the line where there is actual societal harm involved. In regards to his views on the pandemic (and his comments on gender in his most recent article) as a physician and a blogger he really ought to know better due to his reach and the weight his words carry.

If you can find one, MiniDSP OpenDRC-DI has 6144 taps/channel FIR filter capacity. Btw, you don't really need high tap count for bass correction, IIR filters work better than anything else for frequency domain correction below 200Hz and even the cheapest MiniDSP can do that through PEQ as well as biquads. You need FIR taps to correct for crossover and box/port phase shifts in the time domain which should help with some of your speaker directivity problems.

 

[GXAlan]

@aliqaz

Any updates? I am sending Amir a Meyer Sound product to measure…

 

[MEGB1262]

Hi all!

The best system i have ever heard in a concert hall even quite larger than the room of the thread opener was the "I'm guilty" Mike Oldfield concert tour with a wall of dozens of QUAD ESL electrostatic panels placed left and right of the stage

big line array with stacked horns and compression drivers may be also an option for DIY

stacked eighteensound XT1464 horns can easily go down to 300 - 400 Hz flanked with a line array of 6 - 8 15 inch woofer may be even in an open baffle

so far - so good, Stefano

 

[Ciobi69]

Horns are the best for large rooms for high spl and sensitivity

 

[steve59]

I have a pair of meridian dsp 8000 se that can produce 120 db at 1 meter and have a very good sound.

 

[Kamrooz]

I have a pair of meridian dsp 8000 se that can produce 120 db at 1 meter and have a very good sound.

How do you like it ?

 

[muad]

I'm a bit late to this thread. But if you're looking for help with setup, room acoustics and dsp, contact mitchco on this forum (Google him). He lives just up the sunshine coast (sechelt?) and may be the person you want to chat with regarding installation and your setup.

 

[OldHvyMec]

Listening with your own ears is absolutely the most accurate test as thats the use case.

So your saying you want to buy something that sounds good to your ears.
But your ears can not tell if something sounds good?

There is the question and the answer. Are measurements always the place to start?
Not if you are looking for something aesthetically pleasing to YOUR eyes. The sound part
is fairly easy to buy or build in any normal room. Rectangle, 3-400sf or larger 8ft. to an opening ceiling.
Room treatment and drop in adequate transducers, that you have researched for their performance.

It's NEVER going to be a brand of speaker, it will alway be the technology and choice of components that
the manufacture used. Personally I'm a small ribbon, planar person from 300hz up. Nothing is going to change
that. I settled on that type of driver in the 70s. They were the best then, they are still the best now. Why would
I go against my hearing when it was it's best vs 69 year old ears now.

We knew then (1974) the ROOM was the most important part and the speaker (for the lack of a better term) were
20% of the sound, the gear was 20%, the grid was 10%, the room coupled with vibration control was 50%. The speakers
can be a place of contention as far as the percentage they play in quality sound reproduction but the fact remains I've
listened to some VERY strange Point source, 300.00 dollar speakers that would blow your mind in an unsighted AB test
against anything made. ANYTHING!

Respectively comparing JBLs is a great example. If we stuck 6700s into the test group they are NOT going to image
like a point source. As a matter of fact they don't image at all from the 3 sets I've heard. They filled the WHOLE room
without any effort just like most horns do. Immersion yes, soundstage no. In some ways they are more lifelike (actual
concerts) BUT concerts aren't known for their great sound with few exceptions. I remember standing it the halls
at Winterland and it sounded better with TP in my ears that any part of the concert floors.
Deep Purple in the 70s. Man they were loud. Journey was louder than that and 1/2 the people left because of it.

Loud is easy, great is easy but you start with a choice and it has to sound and look good. It's ok if your choice ages,
so will your ears, eyes and ability to do anything about it. Time flys, the last words out of my Mother-in-laws mouth
at 96 years old I kid you not. "Time Flies."

I blinked and it's been 7 years since I retired. I just ordered 12 each of GSRs Neo 10s and 12 GSR 3.0 tweeters.
I already had 4 Neo 10s. Just in case. I'm looking for some 1X4X8ft hardwood tomorrow. This will be my 40th
build with neo 10s, never used GSR tweeters, we'll see.

I'll make it work that's never been an issue, starting the project is 50% of finishing the project. You can't measure
happiness, but you can sure enjoy it vs making up your mind by means of looking at a flippin' graft. Flip a coin
take a chance.

With great regard and a little time left. "Time Flys" remember that.
I can't get it. out of my head from 10+ years ago.

 

[Waxx]

Big JBL's are a good way to solve this. I even know people who use a JBL CInema speakers (4722 mains and 5628 subs) and uses dsp (inside the Lab Gruppen amps used for them) to tune them to the room. JBL M2 or 4367 with subs can do similar things probally. I don't now many other speaker brands that can fill such a big space with hifi quality. In cimema's these are mostly hidden behind the screen.

 

[multichannel_guy]

You could get a pair of these large passive Yamaha PA horns from sweetwater for approximately 2500 dollars a pair w/tax. You can run them at a 128 db all day long and they won't cry for mercy like all the weak speakers. You could even set up 5 of these in a multichannel configuration and feel like the ruler of the world.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proaudio/speakers/czr_cxs_xlf/index.html#product-tabs


JBL synthesis, Avantgarde and all those expensive horns are more expensive than cars because audiophiles touched them. If audiophiles touch anything, the price of it goes up 30 fold. A speaker, that is a box with 2 drivers shouldn't cost as much as a car. A car is a rather complex device, as you may know.

 

[Keith_W]

JBL synthesis, Avantgarde and all those expensive horns are more expensive than cars because audiophiles touched them. If audiophiles touch anything, the price of it goes up 30 fold. A speaker, that is a box with 2 drivers shouldn't cost as much as a car. A car is a rather complex device, as you may know.

A car also has economies of scale that drives the price down. If you look at hand made boutique cars that are produced in small numbers, like Ariel Atom, Morgan, Pagani, all Shelby Cobra replicas, many Zagato's, you will find hi-fi like pricing where the purchase price of the vehicle vastly exceeds what you actually get. The fit and finish is usually inferior to a cheap Toyota.

If you want to understand hi-fi pricing, try making and selling speakers yourself. You will quickly realize that $10,000 is a reasonable price to charge. You can start by adding up the cost of all the machines you will need in your workshop, the rent, and other business costs. That's even before you factor in your time and the cost of materials.

 

[Tom C]

You could get a pair of these large passive Yamaha PA horns from sweetwater for approximately 2500 dollars a pair w/tax. You can run them at a 128 db all day long and they won't cry for mercy like all the weak speakers. You could even set up 5 of these in a multichannel configuration and feel like the ruler of the world.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proaudio/speakers/czr_cxs_xlf/index.html#product-tabs


JBL synthesis, Avantgarde and all those expensive horns are more expensive than cars because audiophiles touched them. If audiophiles touch anything, the price of it goes up 30 fold. A speaker, that is a box with 2 drivers shouldn't cost as much as a car. A car is a rather complex device, as you may know.

JBL Eon 715:

Matching 718S Subwoofer:

Current price retail in US$:
$550 pre EACH for 715;
$1149 per each for sub

$3400 US dollars for two speakers and two subs. This was what I got, but was 6xx series (last generation), and it rocks, as you may expect. JBL and Yamaha have been direct competitors for some time, and you and I benefit.
Your ears will cry for mercy long before the speaker does .

 

[Pearljam5000]

JBL Eon 715:
View attachment 359227

Matching 718S Subwoofer:
View attachment 359228

Current price retail in US$:
$550 pre EACH for 715;
$1149 per each for sub

$3400 US dollars for two speakers and two subs. This was what I got, but was 6xx series (last generation), and it rocks, as you may expect. JBL and Yamaha have been direct competitors for some time, and you and I benefit.
Your ears will cry for mercy long before the speaker does .

If PA speakers are such a bargain
Then why bother with studio monitors or hi end audiophile speakers ?

 

[thewas]

If PA speakers are such a bargain
Then why bother with studio monitors or hi end audiophile speakers ?

Because like everything they are compromise too, see here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...oking-more-at-pa-speakers.51522/#post-1855178