The quest for my hyper speaker - Very Large room dilemma

[CINERAMAX]

Polars & dispersion on (page 17-19).

But yeah I don't really see how you can hit the spl goals for that space without compression driver'd pro speakers, or, line sources.

musikelectronic geithain gmbh - ML 811K1

Call me the one in one thousand that gets fatigued by every compression driver speaker ever made, not right away but give it 2 weeks of fine tuning and surely it creeps in and it drives me mad: Meyers Synthesis, Pro, every second and third chance always happens.

I am in a similar dilemma due to the ridiculous length of this videowall media room. Everything is KEF CI 5160 in walls CI 2500 ceilings but I need a coaxial with enough throw to hit the farthest bar at THX levels.

I plan on over treating the room with Baswa sound absorbing plaster that works well to increase the ratio of direct to reflected sound. Any comments?

 

[GXAlan]

A car also has economies of scale that drives the price down.

What about motorcycles or even luxury bicycles made from exotic materials where weight can be measured.

Call me the one in one thousand that gets fatigued by every compression driver speaker ever made, not right away but give it 2 weeks of fine tuning and surely it creeps in and it drives me mad: Meyers Synthesis, Pro, every second and third chance always happens.

If you have tried Meyer Sound and JBL Synthesis, you have tried two of the best setups for compression drivers. What about Alcons with their ribbon tweeter?

If PA speakers are such a bargain
Then why bother with studio monitors or hi end audiophile speakers ?

JBL SRX835P Reviewed (Powered Monitor)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the JBL SRX835P "PA/DJ" powered speaker. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $1,699. Note: our company, Madrona Digital is a dealer for Harman and hence JBL line. So feel free to read whatever bias you feel necessary in my subjective...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Amir wrote
I must say, I was not ready for the incredibly positive experience this speaker plus above EQ provided. The sound was clean, clean and dynamic. Without the EQ the bass and highs were emphasized. With the EQ in place, the sound was just sublime in that I could turn up the level really high and the speaker kept scaling up. At elevated volumes, I could then hear a lot more detail that I would often not hear in my tracks.

I have built a large playlist with sub-bass content I use for headphone testing. Usually they stress speakers too much so I only use them sparingly there. Man, where they made for the JBL SRX835P. The experience of hearing these tracks with this speaker, in this space was transformative! It was that good!

You don't believe me? Here is the wife evidence. Half-way through the testing my wife came into the garage. I expected an complaint about the sound level. What transpired was an impromptu dance session to what I was playing then, the famous Steely Dan's My Cousin Dupree:

Except for my Salon 2 speakers, I don't find this track to be hugely enjoyable. But boy, where they the case here. Every track in my headphone playlist sounded superb.

I think what is going on here is that smaller speakers must be increasing in distortion rapidly, causing one to not turn them up. And if you don't turn them up, then you don't enjoy the full dynamics and details in your music.

 

[CINERAMAX]

I was instrumental in bringing them to CEDIA in 2015, having completed two of their higher channel density installations in 2016 and 2019.

Pardon the clients insistence on mixing subs.

It appears their usual clientele, familiar with concerts and roadies—who, in turn, are considered a notch above carnies—may not align well with the home theater sector's emphasis on honorable and loyal relationships. This misalignment was further exacerbated when the 8-inch woofers in the CRMS speakers developed what sounds like spider sag after five years of 120 dB playback. Coincidentally they are now introducing a new and improved 8-inch model. Additionally, it took six months to repair an amplifier, leading to considerable dissatisfaction. However, one notable aspect is the high degree of correlation between the Spinorama scores from Pierre and subjective evaluations. Having had the opportunity to compare seven units in one room, it is evident that the Alcons model with the highest score indeed offers the best sound quality. Regrettably, they refuse to provide the scores for the home sector despite RP-22.

 

[steve59]

How do you like it ?

The DSP 8000se you're asking about are serious speakers. The $80 k they retail for is just prohibitive, but I see many used for a fraction of the price and the reason I bought them is they sound consistent room to room where so many passive speakers will sound great at a shop demo and sound different once home.

 

[multichannel_guy]

If PA speakers are such a bargain
Then why bother with studio monitors or hi end audiophile speakers ?

They are cheaper because the pro-market operates on a much smaller profit margin and they are not designed with aesthetics in mind. Pro speaker cabinets don't have a high end finish like audiophile speakers. But, you can paint or stain the cabinets and make them look nicer.

Very low-end touring speakers with cabinets made of cheap plastic and low end actives can sound bad. It may be the sound that audiophiles associate with pro sound and turn their noses up. In comparison, their 50 thousand dollar audiophile speakers would sound great. But, if you research the PA market, spend a bit more on passive PA speakers and pair them with good electronics, you can sonically beat audiophile speakers that cost a whole lot more.

My PA speakers were about 1500 to 2000 each. Cabinets are made of solid birch, not mdf and designed with venue height installation options. In other words, the cabinets can get quite substantial as you don't want a 100 lb speaker dropping on someone's head. These are also designed to perform at 125db+ in large venues. When you play them at 90db or so at home listening levels, there is a high level of clarity, lack of distortion, lack of compression, etc. You may hardly get that from home audiophile speakers unless you spend as much as you would spend on a car.

Here's a white paper. As you can see, there is more that goes into PA speaker design than one might think, depending on the knowledge base & engineering expertise of the specific manufacturer. It is not all just about power handling and spl levels.

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/9/322589/i_series_white_paper_en.pdf

 

[Duke]

.

Darth Vader fell face-first into a vat of plastic... THREE times??

Seriously, very cool looking.

 

[GXAlan]

They are cheaper because the pro-market operates on a much smaller profit margin and they are not designed with aesthetics in mind. Pro speaker cabinets don't have a high end finish like audiophile speakers. But, you can paint or stain the cabinets and make them look nicer.

+1

Not only that, but they are higher volume (production numbers) than most audiophile speakers (I'm not counting things like Sonos) which also drives costs down.

I *think* there could be a market to create acoustically transparent fabric/wood shells like Beolab 90, Linn Series 5, or even the old Vandersteen style.

When you play them at 90db or so at home listening levels, there is a high level of clarity, lack of distortion, lack of compression, etc. You may hardly get that from home audiophile speakers unless you spend as much as you would spend on a car.

+1
Not only that, as long as the spin is reasonable, you have a lot of room to EQ given that headroom. Some PA speakers are designed for greater listening distances and they'll have slightly brighter treble to account for atmospheric absorption. Easy to fix in any modern HT setup.

I've gone all-in with Meyer Sound for the majority of my audio setup, but would also go with Yamaha, JBL Pro, etc. Power Sound Audio has built a reputation by adopting PA woofers with modern DSP/ice amps for home subwoofers.

 

[Tom C]

Isn’t there some research data supporting the notion that more channels is more better? Like from the 1930’s and everything after?

 

[Doodski]

Isn’t there some research data supporting the notion that more channels is more better? Like from the 1930’s and everything after?

Wotcha want that for unless it is the pioneers' stuff that matters? Of course more is better if done properly. Chat @Sal1950 for surround sound knowledge and experience that matters.

 

[Tom C]

If PA speakers are such a bargain
Then why bother with studio monitors or hi end audiophile speakers ?

The only comment I would add to those of our learned and well respected colleague @thewas is that the only thing uncompromising about hi-end audiophile speakers is the cost.
I’m curious as to why you lump studio monitor with hi-end audio, since the markets are quite different. Hi-end, the asymmetry of information between seller and buyer is potentially greater. But what’s more important, the studio monitor (pro) market is deeper in terms of aggregate $$$.

 

[Tom C]

Wotcha want that for unless it is the pioneers' stuff that matters? Of course more is better if done properly. Chat @Sal1950 for surround sound knowledge and experience that matters.

I only mean to say that this is the conclusion from recent research, and all research dating back 100 years.

 

[Doodski]

I only mean to say that this is the conclusion from recent research, and all research dating back 100 years.

Somebody has done a number on your knowledge intake. More speaker with good DSP is better period. It is. It costs for sure but it has more of everything.

 

[Doodski]

and all research dating back 100 years.

WhoaH! That's a huge statement. The pioneers are into fundamentals and principles.

 

[Tom C]

WhoaH! That's a huge statement. The pioneers are into fundamentals and principles.

I’m OK with being wrong. Not that I like it, of course I don’t, but I’ve learned to accept it because I’ve been wrong so often.

 

[Doodski]

I’m OK with being wrong. Not that I like it, of course I don’t, but I’ve learned to accept it because I’ve been wrong so often.

Are you into the basics or into the new techy stuff<?> I ask because I believe to figure out the gear one needs the basics first. The basics are the fundamentals and the principles of physics and not the snazzy stuff. Get right down to the nitty gritty pioneers ideas and proven stuff. Then you can disseminate most of the stuff.

 

[Andysu]

stuffed with rockwool behind there now , no picture as only moved screen back enough to get behind it

2nd hand JBL 4673A cheaper than fish and chips , got wait till see fish and chips on ebay , these are designed for 300/400 seat small auditoriums , only one local that still uses common LCR 4673A since late 1980's good quality JBL parts , no need to spend tens of thousands for home theatre ,
making it work due to so close , challenge accepted of course got be real THX believer dedicated
subs should be upside down would make % difference

so much can be done with five screen wide i can duplicate star wars 1977 with baby boom( with Dolby Stereo CP200/stormaudio elite 32 mk3) in the exact proper channels 2 and 4 , close encounters 1977 went with separate subs common to no day now

 

[Doodski]

stuffed with rockwool behind there now , no picture as only moved screen back enough to get behind it

2nd hand JBL 4673A cheaper than fish and chips , got wait till see fish and chips on ebay , these are designed for 300/400 seat small auditoriums , only one local that still uses common LCR 4673A since late 1980's good quality JBL parts , no need to spend tens of thousands for home theatre ,
making it work due to so close , challenge accepted of course got be real THX believer dedicated
subs should be upside down would make % difference

so much can be done with five screen wide i can duplicate star wars 1977 with baby boom( with Dolby Stereo CP200/stormaudio elite 32 mk3) in the exact proper channels 2 and 4 , close encounters 1977 went with separate subs common to no day now

View attachment 359419

Amazing collection of real life operational gear! I used 2 JBL speakers of the lineage you speak of and it was ear splitting amazing dynamics and sound quality. I won't be able to come see what you have but I wish I could...

 

[Mr. Widget]

I am in a similar dilemma due to the ridiculous length of this videowall media room. Everything is KEF CI 5160 in walls CI 2500 ceilings but I need a coaxial with enough throw to hit the farthest bar at THX levels.


I plan on over treating the room with Baswa sound absorbing plaster that works well to increase the ratio of direct to reflected sound. Any comments?

I'm a little late to the party, but it seems this room is begging for line arrays for the screen wall and not point source speakers.

We recently did a project with Baswa used on the ceilings. It does seem to work pretty well.

 

[Norcal]

I think we've lost the OP - it has been almost a year since he's posted to this thread. We may never find out how the story ends...

 

[CINERAMAX]

I'm a little late to the party, but it seems this room is begging for line arrays for the screen wall and not point source speakers.

Well, I looked into them: videowalls NG. The center channel solution, where the voices sound 16 feet wide, is an abomination. It sprays a ridiculous amount of sound towards the screen, thus creating more and more reflections. You need narrow dispersion point sources for videowalls—the only kind of home cinema I like. Another thing that does not work is PRETILTED speakers in the perimeter of the wall. For example, the center channel on the bottom, measured across all parameters, performed way better than the pretilted top of similar volume and drivers. All of the pre tilted speakers in this room cant hold a candle to the rectangular boxes post tilted. Another suggestion don't point rear speakers at the screen and reduce the channel count and limit to Atmos, it won the format war long time ago.