The quest for my hyper speaker - Very Large room dilemma

[Duke]

Instead do you take into account where your making the most money?

Wow. That was really uncalled for.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I've heard steinway multiple times, so no not an outlier. You don't take into account if the sound is bright or harsh? I think most people would care about that.

I guess we have different ideas of what bright or harsh is. Some people prefer a more linear sound and others a more rolled off sound.

The beauty of both Wisdom and Steinway systems is that they have integral DSPs so they can easily be tailored to the listener's preference. Furthermore, the Steinway with RoomPerfect has very easily implemented "voicing" which allows the listener to create unique sound profiles for different sources or personal taste. I use a Lyngdorf processor in my own system and have several custom curves that can be pulled up with the push of a button.

Instead do you take into account where your making the most money?

With our projects we offer very custom design, installation, and follow up service so the labor is typically more than the cost of the equipment. We sell Sonos or Steinway based on what will best satisfy the demands of the project. The cost of the individual components are a concern, but are typically a secondary concern.

 

[Impossible]

Wow. That was really uncalled for.

How's it any different to suggesting my experience or opinion was invalid. I've got no stake in this. Just sharing my honest experience.

 

[aliqaz]

I would suggest your experience was an outlier... poor setup or a gross error of some type was made. We are dealers for both Steinway and Wisdom and have installed quite a few of both. When recommending one over the other, there are many variables we take into account. Bright, harsh sound isn't one of them.

As you prev said the spins for these are unavailable. As a custom installer you must do lots of calibrations and measurents after/during installation to dial these in. Do you happen to possess any data at all (FR, extension, distortion pre/post calibration) that you yourself have obtained during installation that you can share without breaking NDAs. Thanks.

 

[Impossible]

I don't think the data is going to give you what you want.

The ingredients of a system will give you an indication only.

Only you can decide. If you were deff I would understand the dilemma. Take your ears with,
Enjoy the process and demo a bunch of systems.

This thread should give you a good list to demo.

It would be great to hear your thoughts on the demo's.

 

[aliqaz]

I don't think the data is going to give you what you want.

The ingredients of a system will give you an indication only.

Only you can decide. If you were deff I would understand the dilemma. Take your ears with,
Enjoy the process and demo a bunch of systems.

This thread should give you a good list to demo.

It would be great to hear your thoughts on the demo's.

With all due respect we are going to have to disagree on this. This is an objectivist and technical forum. We are here for the data and the science. This is what I prefer to base my purchasing decisions on. However, if this was a subjectivist website or forum then your suggestion would be totally valid and appreciated.

 

[Impossible]

OK fair enough. So that we can be objective what's the exact question you are posing? You will need to be specific (set the parameters).

 

[aliqaz]

OK fair enough. So that we can be objective what's the exact question you are posing? You will need to be specific (set the parameters).

The specifics have been repeated with exact specifications ad nauseum in this forum resulting in lots of excellent feedback from technical experts. Please refer back for details and pictures. In a nutshell very large room, 30000 cu ft approx, 20 ft listening distance, 20hz in room extension, excellent dynamics without compression with occasional transient peaks of 115 SPL at the listening position with lots of headroom. Narrow directivity to reduce reflections.

 

[Impossible]

I would say wisdom audio again.

Here are the explanations and diagrams. https://www.wisdomaudio.com/line-source-tech/
That's a tick for your seating position, a tick for spl and reflections. High sensitivity tick 93db - 98db.


I would again point out the advantage of the woofers only having to play a frequency width of only 195hz (80hz to 275hz), they go loud but stay clear because of this. For me this is where the perceived clarity difference is when you go loud. Jbl m2 I think crossover at 1000hz.

Their subs tick your 20hz requirements easy.

 

[aliqaz]

I would say wisdom audio again.

Here are the explanations and diagrams. https://www.wisdomaudio.com/line-source-tech/
That's a tick for your seating position, a tick for spl and reflections. High sensitivity tick 93db - 98db.


I would again point out the advantage of the woofers only having to play a frequency width of only 195hz (80hz to 275hz), they go loud but stay clear because of this. For me this is where the perceived clarity difference is when you go loud. Jbl m2 I think crossover at 1000hz.

Their subs tick your 20hz requirements easy.

Unfortunately, these are all generic specifications that you would get with any manufacturer. And we all understand line source tech. A lot of other speakers also meet my requirements, that's not really the point. The point is to have objective data for all the systems that meet requirements, and to find the best one for my needs. These audio companies (wisdom et al) do not seem to provide anything other than some specs and blurbs. Thus apart from listening (which is notoriously unreliable even in your own room much less a showroom) they make it impossible to evaluate and compare with other speakers. Spins are needed, and failing that, at minimum on and off axis responses, as well as directivity charts for the speakers in question.

 

[Impossible]

It's a tough one generally at this level there are less owners. The demographic that owns them aren't often the type to do the type of data capture your asking.

Directivity and frequency response will vary and can be changed with room calibration software using target curve, filter or peq etc.
Having raw measurements of a speaker are going to be different to a calibrated system.

Jbl m2, steinway, wisdom etc all have peq and are designed this way. To get the best results they would want you to do room calibration on top of that.

Can I ask, if you don't get the data you want, are you only going to consider the systems that you do have data on?

What companies are giving out the data you want?

 

[Mr. Widget]

As you prev said the spins for these are unavailable. As a custom installer you must do lots of calibrations and measurents after/during installation to dial these in. Do you happen to possess any data at all (FR, extension, distortion pre/post calibration) that you yourself have obtained during installation that you can share without breaking NDAs. Thanks.

We definitely do lots of calibrations. I perform some of them. Others are performed by other system designers at our firm. We also work with outside consultants who perform their own measurements and calibrations. Since our customers are almost never audiophiles or enthusiasts, we typically don't save the measurements or even share them with the client. Most clients have little interest in the process and are primarily focused on the results.

I'll follow up with a private conversation to give you contact info that may help you find a local dealer who may be able to get the info you are looking for and possibly help you in your decision process.

 

[Purité Audio]

I would say wisdom audio again.

Here are the explanations and diagrams. https://www.wisdomaudio.com/line-source-tech/
That's a tick for your seating position, a tick for spl and reflections. High sensitivity tick 93db - 98db.


I would again point out the advantage of the woofers only having to play a frequency width of only 195hz (80hz to 275hz), they go loud but stay clear because of this. For me this is where the perceived clarity difference is when you go loud. Jbl m2 I think crossover at 1000hz.

Their subs tick your 20hz requirements easy.

Hmmm no measurements that I could see, a disingenuous diagram or two though!
Keith

 

[Impossible]

Because there's no measurements doesn't mean it would sound bad. Again who is giving this info out at this level?

Who are the genuine brands doing it?

 

[aliqaz]

Because there's no measurements doesn't mean it would sound bad. Again who is giving this info out at this level?

Who are the genuine brands doing it?

JBL, kef, magico, genelec etc etc.

At every level data is important, especially when there is real money at stake. As a facetious example, I'm sure my windows cost many multiples of this wisdom system and I definately saw the data for those.

 

[aliqaz]

We definitely do lots of calibrations. I perform some of them. Others are performed by other system designers at our firm. We also work with outside consultants who perform their own measurements and calibrations. Since our customers are almost never audiophiles or enthusiasts, we typically don't save the measurements or even share them with the client. Most clients have little interest in the process and are primarily focused on the results.

I'll follow up with a private conversation to give you contact info that may help you find a local dealer who may be able to get the info you are looking for and possibly help you in your decision process.

Thank you. That would be lovely!

 

[Impossible]

JBL, kef, magico, genelec etc etc.

At every level data is important, especially when there is real money at stake. As a facetious example, I'm sure my windows cost many multiples of this wisdom system and I definately saw the data for those.

Do you have a link for any pre dsp/peq?

 

[Ilkless]

Again who is giving this info out at this level?

And they shouldn't be rewarded for it. We can talk about installation/soffit speakers being highly individual but this doesn't mean directivity data and FR smoothness should be discounted, or taken for granted.

 

[Ilkless]

@aliqaz Side note: thank you for expecting manufacturers to be accountable with data at this level of expense, so it doesn't look like just some cynicism from reverse snobs driven by envy for systems they can't afford, which is how many megabuck boutiques tend to handwave and dismiss requests for data.

 

[AudioJester]

Recenty

I would say wisdom audio again.

Here are the explanations and diagrams. https://www.wisdomaudio.com/line-source-tech/
That's a tick for your seating position, a tick for spl and reflections. High sensitivity tick 93db - 98db.


I would again point out the advantage of the woofers only having to play a frequency width of only 195hz (80hz to 275hz), they go loud but stay clear because of this. For me this is where the perceived clarity difference is when you go loud. Jbl m2 I think crossover at 1000hz.

Their subs tick your 20hz requirements easy.

Recently got to hear the Wisdom line source. I rated them higher than the amazing D&D 8c, the Wisdom could also go cazy louder. Very expensive though.