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The quest for my hyper speaker - Very Large room dilemma
- Thread starter aliqaz
- Start date
I'll bet they were.
Funny but I prefer this version with the clean rectangular box to the segmented one with the angled top, or any of the the later protrusions. Not that it matters.
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ocinn
Senior Member
I recently designed a system for a local warehouse party with these. Crossed to 6x TH115 and 2x BC215 subwoofers arranged in an arc-beamsteered array. Sounded stunning. 98-104db(a) across the dancefloor, ridiculously crystal clear. Sh96HO is totally overkill for any domestic setting, IMO.
Danley seems to have scrubbed their site of mentions. Phase and FR are posted here in Keith's thread.
Tom Danley’s new Hyperion
First photographs posted on the Hyperion site, https://tomdanley.com/hyperion/ Keith
www.audiosciencereview.com
Extremely interested in these :
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Their image of the box on the left, suspended, looks fabulous.
The HRE’s were an exceptionally clean clear sound, I thought at first there might be an excess of H/F but the in room measurements were superb, ( after I added a couple of filters) I suggested an rrp that would have competed with other fine measuring contemporary loudspeakers 60k is boutique pricing.I recently designed a system for a local warehouse party with these. Crossed to 6x TH115 and 2x BC215 subwoofers arranged in an arc-beamsteered array. Sounded stunning. 98-104db(a) across the dancefloor, ridiculously crystal clear. Sh96HO is totally overkill for any domestic setting, IMO.
View attachment 283533
Danley seems to have scrubbed their site of mentions. Phase and FR are posted here in Keith's thread.
Tom Danley’s new Hyperion
First photographs posted on the Hyperion site, https://tomdanley.com/hyperion/ Keith
Keith
Why would a manufacturer password protect the marketing material of a product but allows a dealer to talk about it?Danley seems to have scrubbed their site of mentions. Phase and FR are posted here in Keith's thread.
Tom Danley’s new Hyperion
First photographs posted on the Hyperion site, https://tomdanley.com/hyperion/ Keith
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ocinn
Senior Member
HRE1 | Danley Sound Labs
www.danleysoundlabs.com
My bad, apparently they rebranded it from "Hyperion" to "HRE1" Specs are listed in the link above. Half the page is loren-ipsum filler text, and they are using a picture of the Jericho J8 in place for the "ILE3" so seems like a very much work-in-progress webpage.
I think Keith is probably the best person to ask, I only interface with them for live sound work, and Keith seems to have a relationship with their home audio endeavors.
Extremely odd and unprofessional behaviour, if you ask me.HRE1 | Danley Sound Labs
My bad, apparently they rebranded it from "Hyperion" to "HRE1" Specs are listed in the link above. Half the page is loren-ipsum filler text, and they are using a picture of the Jericho J8 in place for the "ILE3" so seems like a very much work-in-progress webpage.
I think Keith is probably the best person to ask, I only interface with them for live sound work, and Keith seems to have a relationship with their home audio endeavors.
I believe the whole project is very much a work in progress, I did suggest that the domestic and live sound markets are very different…
the HRE1 would be a tough sale, although it is truly formidable.
Keith
the HRE1 would be a tough sale, although it is truly formidable.
Keith
ocinn
Senior Member
I Agree. They've been teasing this product for over a year, with 3 cosmetic redesigns, no pricing or release date announced and the website page is still filler text. Bizzare behavior for a pretty well-established company. Kind of makes my recommendation to OP irrelevant if you can't even buy them or get a date when you will be able to.
In other words we are talking about product(s) that doesn’t yet exists on the market. Everything is just speculation.
How does that help the OP?
I recently designed a system for a local warehouse party with these. Crossed to 6x TH115 and 2x BC215 subwoofers arranged in an arc-beamsteered array. Sounded stunning. 98-104db(a) across the dancefloor, ridiculously crystal clear. Sh96HO is totally overkill for any domestic setting, IMO.
View attachment 283533
Danley seems to have scrubbed their site of mentions. Phase and FR are posted here in Keith's thread.
Tom Danley’s new Hyperion
First photographs posted on the Hyperion site, https://tomdanley.com/hyperion/ Keith
Extremely interested in these :
View attachment 283535
ocinn
Senior Member
@Shiva I don't think OP needs concert SPL levels over his entire room. I'd argue, as OP said himself, that tight controlled dispersion to try to negate some of the negative effects of a large room with no treatment is a huge priority. He mentioned he sits 16-18ft away from the speakers.
You are correct tho, if OP desires concert-level volume at his listening position, the speaker would need to be able to play 118db(a) cleanly @1m to hit concert standard 102db(a) at 18ft. Which is a job more suited to pro audio, whether large studio monitors like the Genelecs/M2/etc... people have recommended, or, PA boxes. I thought the Danley Hyperion would be the best bridge of the two worlds but at this rate, I don't think it will ever be released.
Another option in the same vein would be L'Acoustics Syva. I work with these all the time and they are VERY good, however 140deg horizontal dispersion.
Or maybe meyer blue orn, but I've never heard them, so I can't comment. Look great on paper tho!
You are correct tho, if OP desires concert-level volume at his listening position, the speaker would need to be able to play 118db(a) cleanly @1m to hit concert standard 102db(a) at 18ft. Which is a job more suited to pro audio, whether large studio monitors like the Genelecs/M2/etc... people have recommended, or, PA boxes. I thought the Danley Hyperion would be the best bridge of the two worlds but at this rate, I don't think it will ever be released.
Another option in the same vein would be L'Acoustics Syva. I work with these all the time and they are VERY good, however 140deg horizontal dispersion.
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Or maybe meyer blue orn, but I've never heard them, so I can't comment. Look great on paper tho!
- Thread Starter
- #415
Thank you for this very kind and very thorough analysis and calculation. Safe to assume that with the provided specs for the salons we are not going to be able to hit the desired spl's. Plus compression data it's not really available anyways. Putting them safely out of the running.There's few discrepancies in your 100dBSPL calculation that all together add up significantly, imo.
First is @aliqaz has said he listens at 20ft or 6.1m, not 5m. Second is the Salon2's nominal impedance is 6 ohm, not 8 ohm.
Third is I see you attributed two speakers to provide a full +6dB summation....which is very unrealistic ime. +3dB is commonly used for this.
So all those together add to needing about 58V and 570 W per speaker, not 34V and 144W.
.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
But I think the far bigger issue, is that this type of calculation is for AVERAGE SPL, and AVERAGE POWER.
In #209, Duke linked an in-room SPL calculator http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html#anchor_13193
It makes the same type calculation.
Here's a screen shot of that calculator using the Salon2 with the numbers i posted above.
(Note stated 86.4 sensitivity has to be adjusted down by -1.2dB, because Revel used 2.83V which is 1.33W, not 1W, into it's nominal 6 ohms.)
View attachment 283467
It is a calculator for finding maximum average SPL at the listening position, using the speaker's sensitivity , amplifier wattage, and distance.
It has no consideration of headroom needed for producing uncompressed peak signal.
If the amplifier wattage includes it's entire headroom available (which is a spec that's very hard to find on almost any amp because it varies by time duration).
the calculator would give peak maximum SPL...the headroom needed for transients above average SPL.
Generally, I've found it's not safe to assume there is more that +3dB amp headroom above rated wattage. Very good amps may have +6dB. Extraordinarily excellent ones perhaps higher.
How much headroom is needed?
I saw Duke in same post say he likes +8-10dB (Personally, I'm a clean-headroom junkie, and like +18dB..we will ignore me
Let's just go with a +9 dB needed.....which equates to 8x the 570W power already in the average calculator. (2^3rd ...a doubling for each 3dB)
Yikes ! 4560W for clean headroom.
Ok, so we're clearly in fantasy land....
Let's go the other way, lets try to input the max unclipped amp wattage we can reason out for a 570W amp (not for from the 600W @aliqaz mentioned used for the current Revels)
We could just divide the 570W by 8 to give room for peaks, which would give about 71W; but lets be generous to the amp and say it has +3dB honest headroom.
So, only need to dived by 4 for 142 W,
View attachment 283483
Now we have 94dB at listening position....but this is transient peak SPL,
and we need to subtract the +9dB it has over average SPL.
To get to a max average 85dB at LP, unclippled by amp.
Ok, take all this with a grain of salt...it doesn't account for room contributions, it's a spitball guess about amp headroom, and what sensitivity is across the spectrum.
And who knows if all the driver sections are able to maintain linearity, at the now implied 1m 98 dB average, and 107 dB peak.
My guess is they all can, other than the three 8" subs petering out at very low freq,
Not bad at all.
Not what I'd call good though. Especially given only +9 dB was used for transients.
If you want to allow for more clean headroom, just subtract that number from whatever the in-room SPL calculater gives (using rated amp wattage) to get maximum average SPL at LP.
Hope this was of some help to any trying to wrap their head around,what does it really take to turn up the volume without hearing strain.
Considering that we do have more data on the perlesten s towers, considering their higher sensitivity and extremely low distortion, can we get in the ballpark of the desired SPLs? These are the last conventional cone speakers I'm considering.
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- Thread Starter
- #416
Exactly. I have no desire to listen to 115 DB for any length of time, much less 100 DB for any more than short periods of time. I casually listen at 80 to 85 db, and critically listen maybe between 90 and 95 DB where I get the sensation of live volume. This is only on occasion. As Bjorn said, there is the need to hit transient peaks, plus the need for further headroom and the desire to avoid compression as much as possible at any volume.
Given that you know that you like the sound of your JBL’s, and high power/compression is an issue, why not simplify and go for the 4367? It seems to hit all of the criteria except for a potentially polarizing visual look?
- Thread Starter
- #418
I guess that puts horn speakers to the forefront
- Thread Starter
- #419
The look is very important, also I have their smaller siblings just next door. And I would like to try something a bit different.
- Thread Starter
- #420
It really does, but I'm able to find much detail including pricing much less data on their website
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