The quest for my hyper speaker - Very Large room dilemma

[RobL]

I didn't know Meyer markets to residential, being entirely into DIY since buying gear from them a while back. This thread made me check their site...

Residential Solutions

Home Cinema and Distributed Audio

meyersound.com

Realizing @aliqaz is after a stereo rig, not home theatre..
I still wonder how the hell much this system would run for?
You guys have any idea?
View attachment 283877

This private Meyer home cinema was £250,000 in 2017…
and it seems a stereo pair of Bluehorn Systems is $80000!

 

[Mr. Widget]

I never had opportunity to compare side by side BlueHorn and Designer, so I cannot comment.
But the Designer model with a competent EQ (IIR or FIR) is a superb solution, and much cheaper....

I have heard the Designer and Bluehorn back to back in different spaces, so not a valid AB comparison. I agree that the Designer should be able to get you 90% of the way there at a significantly lower cost. That said, part of the cost of the Bluehorns is having a Meyer Sound technician come out and help you with the final calibration. That alone may be worth the cost.

Beyond the blue paint, there are three differences between the Bluehorn and Acheron Designer. The compression driver is a more refined driver capable of greater HF extension (you can see in my plot that the Designer drops off rapidly above ~16KHz), the dedicated Galaxy processor, and the factory setup assistance.

You can certainly add the X-400C subs and standard Galaxy processor and get pretty close at less than half the cost.

I also heard TAD in pro studios but I was more impressed by Designer's balanced timbre and dynamics (Designer measurements are generally better but this may depend on specific TAD systems: I only measured TSM1 2401 and TSM2).

Those TAD monitors are using the much older TH4001/TD-4001 which is essentially a classic radial horn with an improved JBL 375/2440 which was based on the early Western Electric geometry.

I didn't know Meyer markets to residential...

We have been offering Meyer Sound to our customers for decades. I think COVID made the channel more official during the shut downs when there were no live shows and most commercial productions were shut and the residential markets took off.

I posted the photo of the Acheron Designer to show it's relative compact size. Knowing that @aliqaz is interested in high performance at higher than typical SPLs, superior aesthetics, and serious design with proper measurements and documentation. Regarding the aesthetics, I would think the Designers could be reskinned or otherwise dressed up. I can think of several ways to make them visually appealing. Regarding understanding their engineering, he should be able to find a local dealer who could reach out to Meyer Sound on his behalf to get the proper measurement documentation for his evaluation.

 

[ferrellms]

Hi there,

A long time enthusiast and lurker here. I am posting this to see if the community can be of any help in helping me find a speaker for my very large great room.

I have been an audiophile for many years, and an objectivist one for almost as long. As a physician I am familiar with the concept of blinded control trials. During the beginning of my hobby I conducted my own single blinded and double blinded trials, which, due to the fact that I was not able to hit statistical significance, led me inexorably down the path of objectivism.

I have a Great room which is very large. About 25 ft width, 60 ft length, and a ceiling height that varies from 18 ft to 30 ft. I sit about 16 to 18 ft from my speakers, in an equilateral triangle.

In terms of tonality and dispersion my current speakers are absolutely great (revel f208s). I prefer both wide and narrow dispersion and have tonally accurate speakers that represent both in some of my other systems (Philharmonic BMR, r3). I use room correction extensively (Dirac/xt32/anthem arc, above and below 500hz for different systems as the situation demands).

Currently in that room I have a pair of revel f208s. I love these speakers, and I love their wide dispersion. I even love the ability of their two 8-in woofers to bring the bass down to pretty reasonable levels. But, as a high SPL listener, I simply feel that at high volume levels, at least in my room and where I am sitting, they tend to fall apart in terms of dynamics. They are being given close to 600 watts at 4 ohms, so plenty of power.

I am running a pair of JBL 4349s in my much smaller movie theater (15x20x10) and the dynamics of those speakers are absolutely to die for. This is my benchmark that I would like to achieve for my primary room.

Having read a bit around the ASR forums, I guess what I'm looking for are speakers that are fairly high sensitivity, a very low distortion at high SPL levels, that dig down really really deep, and probably narrow dispersion (even there's lots of wood in that room, there is a wall of glass). With the new hypex modules, obviously power should not be a concern. Budget? I am not sure, I am quite value driven and typically like to get the best product that can perform to the limits of perception at the lowest price. But overall, I would be willing to spend quite a bit.

Thank you for your knowledge and expertise in advance.

For a room of that size, take a look at pro stuff, like big Genelec mains or similar. Mount them in the walls if you can. Consult a pro audio dealer with experience in recording studio design.

21-20000 hz +- 2db
130 db

www.genelec.com/main-studio-monitors

 

[tuga]

The room in question.

That's the hotel lounge. Can you show us the room?

 

[Head_Unit]

I have never liked Focal because I thought they sounded much too bright.

This cannot be the reason since I have Focals with inverted tweeter and they don't sound too bright.

Uh oh! A discrepancy! We must resolve this in the name of Science, and to settle @Jim Taylor's mind! Please each of you:
(1) Find a flower
(2) Pull off a petal: "bright"
(3) Pull off another petal: "not bright"
(4) Repeat until no petals left
(5) Then we will know the TRUTH.
Or perhaps the room has some effect on the perception? Nah, that's a silly idea, one of you must be wrong...

 

[Keith_W]

Uh oh! A discrepancy! We must resolve this in the name of Science, and to settle @Jim Taylor's mind! Please each of you:
(1) Find a flower
(2) Pull off a petal: "bright"
(3) Pull off another petal: "not bright"
(4) Repeat until no petals left
(5) Then we will know the TRUTH.
Or perhaps the room has some effect on the perception? Nah, that's a silly idea, one of you must be wrong...

I ignored this stupidity the first time around. But this time i'll respond.

Do you find it so difficult to believe that something that is measurably the same might be perceived differently by two people with different taste? For example, you could share a steak with another person. You might find it too salty, the other person might find it underseasoned. Or you could stand outside when it is 15C. You might think it's cold, but others think it isn't. My wife thinks I am playing my music too loud, but to me it's just right. All these things are measurably the same, but perceived differently. We all know that human perception is unreliable, which is why we measure. But measurements do not say anything about your preference.

 

[audiofooled]

My wife thinks I am playing my music too loud, but to me it's just right.

I concur!

 

[seememom]

I have read the forums for a while, but registered to post this possibility:

Trident II - Gryphon Audio

Lorem ipsum Main Menu Overview The Drive Eternal Beauty Features & Specifications Downloads Awards Reviews Media Overview The overwhelmingly positive reception of the Gryphon Poseidon, a four-tower system that occupied a considerable piece of domestic real estate, generated massive audiophile...

gryphon-audio.dk

Seems like it might meet aesthetic and sound requirements, and as a bonus available for about 1/2 off at the moment (whether that is a good value or not regardless the discount would be up to the purchaser)

 

[Impossible]

Having heard a bunch of systems,
Including steinway lyngdorf's model d.
A bunch of jbl's
Alcons audio

Without hesitation I would go specifically with Wisdom Audio planar line array cinema series.
The planar's take care of everything from 275hz and up. Subs do everything from 80hz and below. The woofers have a very simple job, not required to do any complex high frequency's. The line array means you don't get any vertical bounce from floor or ceiling. Cross over is fully active.
Their subs are transmission line, very fast.
It's as good as it gets.

 

[Tom C]

Having heard a bunch of systems,
Including steinway lyngdorf's model d.
A bunch of jbl's
Alcons audio

Without hesitation I would go specifically with Wisdom Audio planar line array cinema series.
The planar's take care of everything from 275hz and up. Subs do everything from 80hz and below. The woofers have a very simple job, not required to do any complex high frequency's. The line array means you don't get any vertical bounce from floor or ceiling. Cross over is fully active.
Their subs are transmission line, very fast.
It's as good as it gets.

Are there any spinorama measurements available?

 

[Impossible]

I'm not sure but I have heard them with my own ears and so have a bunch of other people at trade shows. At this level it's better to demo.

They are commonly the top 1 or 2 at the shows.

I feel the alcons are bright and so are the steinways. Steinways and jbl have typical point source behaviour. Alcons have the most holographic sound where 2.1 sounds like 5.1 but bright and lack some presence in the mids.

It's why this guy used very similar techs to the wisdoms.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Having heard a bunch of systems,
Including steinway lyngdorf's model d.
A bunch of jbl's
Alcons audio

Without hesitation I would go specifically with Wisdom Audio planar line array cinema series.

A handful of us have come to a similar conclusion.

A tall line source or line array will probably give the best sonic performance in the OPs listening room. Also, the Wisdoms and a few others are capable of extreme SPLs. That said, not knowing what the budget is makes it harder to make a recommendation. The Wisdoms are not inexpensive. If cost is not a concern I personally would go with the speakers I suggested in post #203 of this thread if the budget is there. Unfortunately the OP's desire for spinorama data may not be available.

 

[Keith_W]

I'm not sure but I have heard them with my own ears and so have a bunch of other people at trade shows. At this level it's better to demo.

They are commonly the top 1 or 2 at the shows.

I feel the alcons are bright and so are the steinways. Steinways and jbl have typical point source behaviour. Alcons have the most holographic sound where 2.1 sounds like 5.1 but bright and lack some presence in the mids.

It's why this guy used very similar techs to the wisdoms.

I love Persian rugs! If those are genuine Persian rugs of high quality, the price of those rugs could easily equal the cost of many high end systems. Sadly, Persian rugs are mostly low pile so they don't work as well as a nice thick shag pile for audio. I wonder if anyone has done measurements on this.

 

[Sokel]

I love Persian rugs! If those are genuine Persian rugs of high quality, the price of those rugs could easily equal the cost of many high end systems. Sadly, Persian rugs are mostly low pile so they don't work as well as a nice thick shag pile for audio. I wonder if anyone has done measurements on this.

Can't fluff silk,can you?

(I'm tempted to measure a thick wool one against a thinner silk-wool now but the silk one is also a little smaller so it would not be comparable)

 

[pos]

the Designer model with a competent EQ (IIR or FIR) is a superb solution

I concur: I had the opportunity to hear an Acheron Designer system installed by @jlo in a cinema post production room a few years ago.
It was really coherent and impressive, especially in the LF range, tactile yet very musical and pleasant.

 

[Impossible]

A handful of us have come to a similar conclusion.

A tall line source or line array will probably give the best sonic performance in the OPs listening room. Also, the Wisdoms and a few others are capable of extreme SPLs. That said, not knowing what the budget is makes it harder to make a recommendation. The Wisdoms are not inexpensive. If cost is not a concern I personally would go with the speakers I suggested in post #203 of this thread if the budget is there. Unfortunately the OP's desire for spinorama data may not be available.

I'm pritty sure steinways use mundorf air motion transformers which are pritty bright. I watched guy Richie's the man from uncle on one of these, the movie has lots of music and we couldn't play it very loud because it became uncomfortable.

Wisdom use planar magnetic drivers. We were shaking the room no problem.

 

[Keith_W]

There are wool Persian rugs as well. And also polyester (those ones you should avoid!). The wool ones have a thicker pile than silk, but are still thinner than the wool rug I have in front of my speakers. You could put an underlay under the rug, but I am not sure if it's the pile that provides the absorption or the overall thickness of the rug + underlay. This should probably be discussed in a separate thread to avoid contaminating this one with off topic banter.

 

[Impossible]

I had a polyester rug, impossible to clean. But sounded great.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I'm pritty sure steinways use mundorf air motion transformers which are pritty bright. I watched guy Richie's the man from uncle on one of these, the movie has lots of music and we couldn't play it very loud because it became uncomfortable.

Wisdom use planar magnetic drivers. We were shaking the room no problem.

I would suggest your experience was an outlier... poor setup or a gross error of some type was made. We are dealers for both Steinway and Wisdom and have installed quite a few of both. When recommending one over the other, there are many variables we take into account. Bright, harsh sound isn't one of them.

 

[Impossible]

I would suggest your experience was an outlier... poor setup or a gross error of some type was made. We are dealers for both Steinway and Wisdom and have installed quite a few of both. When recommending one over the other, there are many variables we take into account. Bright, harsh sound isn't one of them.

I've heard steinway multiple times, so no not an outlier. You don't take into account if the sound is bright or harsh? I think most people would care about that.

Instead do you take into account where your making the most money?