Tekton M-Lore Speaker Measurement Update

[CedarX]

I vote we, as an audio community, boycott ANY and ALL Tekton equipment. Obviously, this "Karen" at Tekton thiks too highly of his items and cannot take any criticism on their products whether good or bad. This is narsasistic (sic) tendencies. Simply not reviewing them is the easiest way to solve this.

If anyone asks about them, send them to all these issues.

Let Tekton implode over their own ignorances.

I would disagree here: ASR’s reviews are about informing, and discussing audio products, based on facts. I don’t think it’s about dictating what members should or shouldn’t purchase… or did I miss something?
I don’t wish Tekton to implode or get bankrupt… I wish they learn from Amir’s review, go back to the design board, and improve the M-Lore into a great speaker.

 

[rynberg]

I wish they learn from Amir’s review, go back to the design board, and improve the M-Lore into a great speaker.

Ummm...have you somehow missed the last month's happenings with the owner of Tekton?

 

[amirm]

Considering the nasty letter and threats sent to Amir and Erin, I'd have expected that much or more a response to GR.

Most likely he did not know about it especially since that video came out a couple of years go. People searching for his speaker would not likely land on GR video

 

[tmtomh]

Most likely he did not know about it especially since that video came out a couple of years go. People searching for his speaker would not likely land on GR video

When I load up that video in YouTube it says it's from July, so only 3 months before your M-Lore review here. But I think you're right about the searching/landing issue: it's a rapid-fire assessment of 18 different speakers and there's nothing in the video description, or "key moments" video thumbnails that tells you anything about which speakers or manufacturers are included. If you look at the cover image I believe that's a Lore on the lefthand side - but you already have to know what you're looking for to realize that.

So it's very likely Eric Alexander had - and still has - no idea that Danny slammed his speaker.

 

[PatentLawyer]

Imagine all the lost sales Danny has caused.

/sarcasm

 

[Pinkynator]

At this point, I think everyone is just pushing their luck.

We have had three reviewers narrowly escape death caused by hypersonic airjet streams while listening to Norah Jones. Thankfully nobody reviewed the speakers with Motörhead.

 

[GWolfman]

@Eric Alexander Shame on you for your distasteful, childish behavior. Your design was faithfully exhibited in both reviews, and frankly it’s an inferior design (according to current studies/science). Build a new and proper speaker and have @amirm test it to vindicate your audio knowledge or go in peace.

 

[WillBrink]

Most likely he did not know about it especially since that video came out a couple of years go. People searching for his speaker would not likely land on GR video

Very unlikely he was not alerted by someone. Regardless, everyone who measures the speaker seems to find it lacking. He should have done what others do and either ignore it, fix it, or claim it's intentional.

 

[Head_Unit]

@Eric Alexander Shame on you for your distasteful, childish behavior. Your design was faithfully exhibited in both reviews, and frankly it’s an inferior design (according to current studies/science). Build a new and proper speaker and have @amirm test it to vindicate your audio knowledge or go in peace.

One of my plans when I win the lottery is to start a speaker company with a somewhat different yet very similar tweeter array and blow all my advertising budget touting how my array is superior. And I'll feature MORE holes in the bottom! And promote how it is "aperiodic"!

 

[YSC]

At this point, I think everyone is just pushing their luck.

We have had three reviewers narrowly escape death caused by hypersonic airjet streams while listening to Norah Jones. Thankfully nobody reviewed the speakers with Motörhead.

I am having an urge to unplug one of the holes, lay the speaker flat pointing to MLP, invite my boss to sit and try, then blast the hell out of the speaker maybe

 

[Musictubes]

I have never heard a pair of Tekton speakers but since they make some high sensitivity speakers I have researched them a bit. While the owner’s behavior is ridiculously over the top and should be embarrassing, he has some decent speaker designer chops. In particular his multi tweeter arrays are actually pretty impressive.

He is a drummer and places a high priority on reproducing dynamics and volume. He has long been unhappy with midrange speakers. In particular he feels that controlling cone resonances and impulse lag were due to the mass of the driver. He designed the tweeter array to emulate a larger midrange driver but with much less mass. He did this by careful placement and putting different delays on different drivers which effectively curves the speakers. The array acts as a 7” midrange driver but because of the CBT type behavior it does not beam like a regular driver of that size. You can see the technical breakdown here:

Help Understanding Tekton Tweeter Array Schematic?

I have a pair of Tekton Double Impacts and I am trying to understand the details of the tweeter array. I created the attached schematic from my pair. Can any of you crossover gurus break this down and explain the functions of circuit?

www.diyaudio.com

So while you might think the tweeter array looks ridiculous, I certainly do, it does seem to deliver the goods, at least on paper. Here’s the kicker, because he is attempting to patent it I think he came up with this on his own instead of cribbing from Keele. He is a small enough operation to fly under JBL’s radar now. If he starts trumpeting his array’s ability to time delay to avoid beaming he will know what actual litigation looks like lol.

 

[CedarX]

So while you might think the tweeter array looks ridiculous, I certainly do, it does seem to deliver the goods, at least on paper.

There is a whole thread on the topic here:

Tekton style like tweeter array good idea?

There currently is some fuss about Tekton, especially since Erin (https://www.youtube.com/@ErinsAudioCorner) had reviewed a Tekton speaker and seemed to be forced to remove his review shorty after that. I very much hope that this matter will be resolved soon, since I very much appreciate Erin’s...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But this is about the M-Lore and I believe the takeaway from the review, follow-up review, and all the discussions hasn’t changed: it’s not a good speaker.

 

[Beave]

I have never heard a pair of Tekton speakers but since they make some high sensitivity speakers I have researched them a bit. While the owner’s behavior is ridiculously over the top and should be embarrassing, he has some decent speaker designer chops. In particular his multi tweeter arrays are actually pretty impressive.

He is a drummer and places a high priority on reproducing dynamics and volume. He has long been unhappy with midrange speakers. In particular he feels that controlling cone resonances and impulse lag were due to the mass of the driver. He designed the tweeter array to emulate a larger midrange driver but with much less mass. He did this by careful placement and putting different delays on different drivers which effectively curves the speakers. The array acts as a 7” midrange driver but because of the CBT type behavior it does not beam like a regular driver of that size. You can see the technical breakdown here:

Help Understanding Tekton Tweeter Array Schematic?

I have a pair of Tekton Double Impacts and I am trying to understand the details of the tweeter array. I created the attached schematic from my pair. Can any of you crossover gurus break this down and explain the functions of circuit?

www.diyaudio.com

So while you might think the tweeter array looks ridiculous, I certainly do, it does seem to deliver the goods, at least on paper. Here’s the kicker, because he is attempting to patent it I think he came up with this on his own instead of cribbing from Keele. He is a small enough operation to fly under JBL’s radar now. If he starts trumpeting his array’s ability to time delay to avoid beaming he will know what actual litigation looks like lol.

Exactly what goods does it deliver?

 

[Musictubes]

Exactly what goods does it deliver?

It has a lot of the advantages of a CBT speaker in the midrange while lowering the mass being moved dramatically. Lower mass speakers should have better impulse responses and fewer issues with ringing, overshoot, etc. a 7” midrange driver would beam pretty badly but CBT designs mitigate that.

All of the subjective reviews I’ve seen on these types of speakers praise the midrange performance and imaging. I think one review said that he had to sit farther away then he’s used to for the imaging to snap into focus.

 

[Beave]

It has a lot of the advantages of a CBT speaker in the midrange while lowering the mass being moved dramatically. Lower mass speakers should have better impulse responses and fewer issues with ringing, overshoot, etc. a 7” midrange driver would beam pretty badly but CBT designs mitigate that.

All of the subjective reviews I’ve seen on these types of speakers praise the midrange performance and imaging. I think one review said that he had to sit farther away then he’s used to for the imaging to snap into focus.

You seem to be repeating the same claims he makes on his website and in his videos and interviews, and like him, you're not providing evidence for the claims.

Is the mass really lower when you add up the the mass from six tweeters? Does the alleged lower mass really improve impulse response? Does impulse response even need to be improved? If so, in what way? Where are the measurements? And is it audible? Do the measurements show any improvements in ringing compared to other speakers?

You say a 7" midrange would beam pretty badly. First, I don't consider a 7" driver to be a midrange. Too big. It's a woofer. Second, yes, it would beam, but so does the Tekton array! It beams dramatically, in fact. Look at the Stereophile off-axis response plots for evidence.

 

[Musictubes]

You seem to be repeating the same claims he makes on his website and in his videos and interviews, and like him, you're not providing evidence for the claims.

Is the mass really lower when you add up the the mass from six tweeters? Does the alleged lower mass really improve impulse response? Does impulse response even need to be improved? If so, in what way? Where are the measurements? And is it audible? Do the measurements show any improvements in ringing compared to other speakers?

You say a 7" midrange would beam pretty badly. First, I don't consider a 7" driver to be a midrange. Too big. It's a woofer. Second, yes, it would beam, but so does the Tekton array! It beams dramatically, in fact. Look at the Stereophile off-axis response plots for evidence.

I’m only claiming that he is a better designer than the people that look at his driver arrays and say pfff. I have not heard any of the speakers but I am impressed with this approach. I have long been interested in CBT designs but commercial ones aren’t practical for the home. Using that approach for at least the midrange in a more conventional home friendly speaker caught my eye. His anger management/narcissism issues have turned me off looking at his stuff further. Who knows how he’d treat you if you had an issue.

The total mass is quite a bit lower, by something like 10 times. I don’t have the info handy and it’s late but I did look it up before. Any designer would love to reduce the moving mass and increase stiffness of their drivers significantly. Because of the CBT-like array the midrange beams less than the equivalent 7” driver with waveguide would. It is a way of achieving better controlled directivity without actually having to use a horn or waveguide. JBL has a patent on the spatially curved CBT and they have made them a lot of money in the sound reinforcement world. It’s a proven design from a directivity perspective, the Tekton guy pursued it as a way to get a more responsive midrange. People seem to like it, I don’t know if it’s all that or not. If you read that link I posted to DIYaudio you’ll get a much better breakdown of how it works.

 

[Musictubes]

There is a whole thread on the topic here:

Tekton style like tweeter array good idea?

There currently is some fuss about Tekton, especially since Erin (https://www.youtube.com/@ErinsAudioCorner) had reviewed a Tekton speaker and seemed to be forced to remove his review shorty after that. I very much hope that this matter will be resolved soon, since I very much appreciate Erin’s...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But this is about the M-Lore and I believe the takeaway from the review, follow-up review, and all the discussions hasn’t changed: it’s not a good speaker.

Ah so there is! Lots more detail and arguing on that lol. I only posted this here because as I started reading this thread people were dismissing all of the Tekton speakers because of the tweeter arrays in others. I’ll stop talking in this thread since there’s much better informed folks in the other.

 

[voodooless]

The total mass is quite a bit lower, by something like 10 times.

No, it’s not. A 7” woofer has about 3 times more surface area, so the difference in weight is about a factor of 2 if take that into account. Nobody would seriously us a 7 inch driver from 1 kHz on though, except maybe in a PA environment or maybe a specialized horn use case, so the argument is moot anyway.

 

[YSC]

No, it’s not. A 7” woofer has about 3 times more surface area, so the difference in weight is about a factor of 2 if take that into account. Nobody would seriously us a 7 inch driver from 1 kHz on though, except maybe in a PA environment or maybe a specialized horn use case, so the argument is moot anyway.

To me it's more simple though, I don't care you use whatever array, as long as you can create a reasonable FR smoothness, great on axis and smooth off axis response, reasonable distorion at moderate level it's good, otherwise it's just a asthetic artwork at best, if so, just charge it like a sculpture, not a speaker

 

[BDWoody]

I’m only claiming that he is a better designer than the people that look at his driver arrays and say pfff.

Why? Based on what?

I’ll stop talking in this thread since there’s much better informed folks in the other.