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Tekton M-Lore Speaker Measurement Update

amirm

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As most of you probably know, I reviewed the Tekton M-Lore speaker back in October of last year. Company recently complained that my measurements were in error due to woofer being listening axis and not the tweeter (speaker manual disputes this). And that without the feet, the holes that house them go all the way through causing additional leakage. Owner/designer @Eric Alexander has implied that these make a big difference. So much so that he was planning to litigate against me back in March of this year:
Eric Alexander Tekton Legal Threat.png

Company has failed to this date to provide any measurements of its own, backing that I have "damaged this loudspeakers reputation." Instead, it has repeatedly demanded that I either delete the review or lately, to remeasure it.

I had responded to him that changing the listening axis would not make much of a difference. He disagreed. Fortunately Klippel Near-field Scanner computers the full response of the speaker in 3-D space so I could re-present the results using the woofer axis. As simple math would have predicted, there is little difference as I post in the review thread:
index.php


Subsequently, Eric Alexander sent me email demanding that I correct the step response. I explained to him that this was a different measurement and to redo that, it would require to test the speaker again. And that if he provides me with his step response, I would include it in the review. I received no answer.

In the interest of going above and beyond, I exchanged messages with the owner of the M-Lore who had since sold the speaker. He was kind enough to offer to actually buy back the speaker so that we could re-test! Fortunately we didn't have to go that far as the new owner was kindly willing to let me borrow the speaker again. I got both speakers with the spikes as shipped. I don't know which one I tested but I think the results below are representative enough that I don't need to test the other speaker.

I put the feet on and measured the impedance (I have left out phase to make it easier to read the graph):

Tekton M-Lore Impedance Variation.png

As a number of expert members had predicted, the impact is very small and limited to very low frequencies. There was a tiny resonance at around 400 Hz which got reduced a bit and shifted to higher frequency as noted. It should be noted that you can get larger difference if you just change the test voltage. So all of this is in the noise, literally.

The other complaint was about the step response. Most of you know that I only post that for the few people who care and it doesn't enter my analysis of the performance of the speaker. @Eric Alexander however, insisted that there would be a difference here. First, let me explain that the step response comes from my 86 dBSPL, near-field, non-anechoic measurement. As such, it is very sensitive to where you set the reference axis. In my original review, that was the tweeter. I remeasured, this time by making woofer the reference axis. Since the path length to the microphone from the woofer is shorter than the tweeter now, the first spike that represents the tweeter is lower in amplitude (right):
Tekton M-Lore Step Response Variation.png


Neither represents bad or good results in my book. But if the right graph makes Mr. Alexander happier, there it is.

Conclusions
As is plainly obvious, these are all nits and do not in any way change the picture of the performance of the Tekton M-Lore speaker. All of this was communicated to the company but the designer refused to accept. And kept insisting that the measurements were "botched" or "flawed." The negligible difference could be and have been predicted so there was little reason to bring them up. It is very odd that a speaker designer would exaggerate such differences so much. And then refuse to post measurement differences when challenged. But here we are.

This concludes my testing of the Tekton M-Lore speaker and addresses the complaints of the company. I am open to testing other speakers from the company but I am done with M-Lore seeing how the company doesn't care enough to release its own measurements.

Now please excuse me as I make arrangements to return these two bulky speakers to the new owner. :( Special thank you to him and the first owner by being so generous with their time and kind motivations to help resolve this issue.
 

tktran303

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Thank you @amirm

As much we may understand Eric’s point of view that a minor cabinet leak can, and will change the port turning, and measuring on a different axis will affect the measurement, I feel that the owner’s reaction was unnecessary.

The approach to critical feedback can be managed in a different way.

After all, this is not the same magnitude of problem like a gross error- like a driver being wired out of phase, or a damaged / non-functioning driver.

I would have thought that a different approach would be more constructive eg. Reflecting on limitations of being able to control a user’s set-up process (eg. not installing feet) or listening on the tweeter axis instead of the woofer axis.

I would think this is a better approach and better for public relations for all involved.
After all, Eric does seem to have other interesting designs worthy of audition / measurement / review.

1713595135834.png


 
Last edited:

solderdude

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Bass port tuning did change/improve a little bit.
Step response does look a bit better and for a simple passive speaker does not look poor.
FR did not change in an obvious way but... there is a measurable change.

You did the audiophile community a good service to re-measure and post the differences which indeed are smaller than Eric Alexander made them out to be.
You did your part.
The failure is totally on Eric Alexander's side. His own words/attitude was the disservice which was done.
 

komhst

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It is obvious that Amir's measurements were correct from the beginning. As was Erin's. It makes little difference whether the acoustic axis is on the woofer or the tweeter as the angle in far field listening is very small. As well as it makes little difference whether the speaker feet are installed or not.

Beyond that, the design to have through holes in the cabinet for mounting the feet is completely wrong.

For me the company got on my blacklist because they are bullying reviewers who post objective measurements and tries to silence them.
 

DanTheMan

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Any speaker designer should have known that the feet wouldn't make a huge difference in the measured response. Odd that this one didn't and so intensely protested the results. The damage to the companies reputation for their imperfect design would have been minimal--all speakers have some degree of "imperfect". The damage from the veracity of the response and threats will likely be far, far greater.

All this makes me think that Ascend Acoustics got a worse review and instead of refuting the results and threatening the reviewer, they responded with incredible designs that most people were ecstatic with. This review was an opportunity to do something better. Now, I could care less what they do as I'd never support someone who acts like this unless they had a public reckoning
 
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anphex

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Now you are securely settled in case of a lawsuit. Judging from prior responses of Tekton CEO, he will find anything to nag about since it was never a factual discussion to begin with. Sad to see everyones time basically having been wasted.
 

HuubFranssen

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The empire strikes back. :)

The clash between Tekton and the objectivistas will not be fought out in a court. Because then the judge must decide between the value of objective and subjective opinions in HiFi.

There are some examples of gear where everything comes together. One of these is making beautiful music now in my room: the Chord Dave dac. Together with a streamer with a much better sound than the bit-perfect MicroRendu (Bryston BDP-2) every day I understand better that measurements do not say everything. Between measurements and the best sound is a gap.

And that gap is where this fuzz is all about.
 

olieb

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I don't know which one I tested but I think the results below are representative enough that I don't need to test the other speaker.
From a scientific point it would be interesting to compare measurements on the identical speaker. Now we do not know what part of the variation of impedance is due to the holes and what might be due to a (potentially) different speaker.
But from the point of view of the problem at hand here you did far more than enough.
First, let me explain that the step response comes from my 86 dBSPL, near-field, non-anechoic measurement. As such, it is very sensitive to where you set the reference axis.
In what distance to the speaker/woofer do/did you measure step response?
 
Last edited:

Haskil

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This is a good thing done. Thank you Amir for this new publication.

I think we should also contribute to pay Eric Alexander for public relations lessons, because instead of seeing his relationship grow with the community of high-fidelity enthusiasts, his reaction to the measures of Erin Corner and ASR harmed him greatly. But certainly not the measures published by the two of you which were perfectly harmless and without any consequence on his reputation.

Now, that an amateur appreciates them does not surprise me at all, speakers measuring execrably are adored by their owner.
But I bought to see a pair of Kali 8 V2 whose measurements are very good but very choppy at the top of the spectrum due to the coaxial speaker: excellent out of the box. Corrected by my Tact 2.2X after measurements: really very very good...

Well-made measurements, and you, like Erin, do them according to the rules of the art, say everything about electronics and almost everything about acoustic speakers like never before in the history of high-fidelity and allow amateurs to sort between all the products placed on the market.

I bought three devices following ASR's tests: a Dac Topping DX3 Pro +, a THX 759 AAA headphone amp and a pair of Kalin-IN8 V 2s that I bought out of curiosity. And I correct my Sennheiser headphones in Roon with Amir's parametric corrections. And I welcome it every day. I was able to compare the Topping and the THX AAA with similar devices at a much higher price which confirmed that the measurements say everything about the quality of an electronic... and not the price paid. And the Kali IN8, despite the measurement accidents around 8 and 9 Khz, sound splendidly 2.5 m from my ears and I had young 27-year-old ears in perfect condition "check" if this uneven high was audible: no, it's not at all... any frustration.... and elsewhere in the house I listen on a pair of Focal-Divatech MC 210 Wide Listening Monitors which have made me happy for 20 years... corrected up to 350 Hz by Audyssey ... Oh yes ! I forgot: I also bought a Denon AV 3600 thanks to ASR... And I love the look made by very subjective audiophile friends when they realize that it's a home cinema amp that drives these monsters. 'pregnant... They can't believe it... and their certainties take a hit.

So well done! again to ASR-Amir and Erin Corner for their useful work... large companies trust them and sometimes even work hand in hand with ASR to resolve design problems.
 

Andreas007

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We all know these kind of people. It's like a disease spreading.
They demand evidence and when you give it to them they say it's flawed or wrong.
Same time, they never bring up evidence by their own (Flat Earth Society anyone?).
So, you put in a lot of work which is neglected with one stupid sentence.
Responding to these people in a scientific manner leads to nowhere.

Normally I would say every effort in putting them into the right place is hopeless.
Nevertheless, thanks to Amir for putting his energy in.
At least they get exposed.
But be sure, if their business suffers they will not blame themselves but rather Amir or Erin. :facepalm:
 

meracus

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to all the "audiophile " commenting above re : measurements dont paint the whole picture.... my personal take is ......
typical audiophile bullshit , arguing about the minuscule changes making huuuuuuge differences ..... and the sparrow is an ostrich
I think it's also fuelled by the delusion of knowledge "acquired " from many years reading the hifi mags in the toilets , and the use of words like " I voiced " and " highly modified " .... and the soothing feeling that you now have a $10k power cord . .... and resume of designers that read .... im an avid oboe player and a trained ukulele manufacturer .... frustrated by the then current quality of digital conversion .... we got our first product , a digital master clock that improves jitter
 

MacClintock

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As most of you probably know, I reviewed the Tekton M-Lore speaker back in October of last year. Company recently complained that my measurements were in error due to woofer being listening axis and not the tweeter (speaker manual disputes this). And that without the feet, the holes that house them go all the way through causing additional leakage. Owner/designer @Eric Alexander has implied that these make a big difference. So much so that he was planning to litigate against me back in March of this year:
View attachment 364796
Company has failed to this date to provide any measurements of its own, backing that I have "damaged this loudspeakers reputation." Instead, it has repeatedly demanded that I either delete the review or lately, to remeasure it.

I had responded to him that changing the listening axis would not make much of a difference. He disagreed. Fortunately Klippel Near-field Scanner computers the full response of the speaker in 3-D space so I could re-present the results using the woofer axis. As simple math would have predicted, there is little difference as I post in the review thread:
index.php


Subsequently, Eric Alexander sent me email demanding that I correct the step response. I explained to him that this was a different measurement and to redo that, it would require to test the speaker again. And that if he provides me with his step response, I would include it in the review. I received no answer.

In the interest of going above and beyond, I exchanged messages with the owner of the M-Lore who had since sold the speaker. He was kind enough to offer to actually buy back the speaker so that we could re-test! Fortunately we didn't have to go that far as the new owner was kindly willing to let me borrow the speaker again. I got both speakers with the spikes as shipped. I don't know which one I tested but I think the results below are representative enough that I don't need to test the other speaker.

I put the feet on and measured the impedance (I have left out phase to make it easier to read the graph):

View attachment 364797
As a number of expert members had predicted, the impact is very small and limited to very low frequencies. There was a tiny resonance at around 400 Hz which got reduced a bit and shifted to higher frequency as noted. It should be noted that you can get larger difference if you just change the test voltage. So all of this is in the noise, literally.

The other complaint was about the step response. Most of you know that I only post that for the few people who care and it doesn't enter my analysis of the performance of the speaker. @Eric Alexander however, insisted that there would be a difference here. First, let me explain that the step response comes from my 86 dBSPL, near-field, non-anechoic measurement. As such, it is very sensitive to where you set the reference axis. In my original review, that was the tweeter. I remeasured, this time by making woofer the reference axis. Since the path length to the microphone from the woofer is shorter than the tweeter now, the first spike that represents the tweeter is lower in amplitude (right):
View attachment 364798

Neither represents bad or good results in my book. But if the right graph makes Mr. Alexander happier, there it is.

Conclusions
As is plainly obvious, these are all nits and do not in any way change the picture of the performance of the Tekton M-Lore speaker. All of this was communicated to the company but the designer refused to accept. And kept insisting that the measurements were "botched" or "flawed." The negligible difference could be and have been predicted so there was little reason to bring them up. It is very odd that a speaker designer would exaggerate such differences so much. And then refuse to post measurement differences when challenged. But here we are.

This concludes my testing of the Tekton M-Lore speaker and addresses the complaints of the company. I am open to testing other speakers from the company but I am done with M-Lore seeing how the company doesn't care enough to release its own measurements.

Now please excuse me as I make arrangements to return these two bulky speakers to the new owner. :( Special thank you to him and the first owner by being so generous with their time and kind motivations to help resolve this issue.
More could not be done, thanks for the effort.
 

olieb

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Between measurements and the best sound is a gap.

And that gap is where this fuzz is all about.
There are two ways through this gap.
• The abyss of subjectivity [myths, (auto)suggestion, magical thinking]
• The scientific bridge [psychoacoustics, interpretation of measurements, research]
 
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