Revel F206 Tower Speaker Review

[youdontmakesense]

Been looking at these for a bit. Thanks for the review

 

[Wavez]

I have f208s that I'm about to move into a 16'x14' basement room with only 6'9" ceilings but this review has me second guessing if I should trade them out for the 206s for the more favorable small form factor. If I'm running the 206 with a sub am I likely to notice a difference? Comparing the reviews it looks like the 208s have broader horizontal dispersion, very slightly smoother/flatter freq response, and lower THD (maybe not audible though), and of course lower cutoff. Anyone heard them side by side that could describe any audible differences? Will be used for 50/50 music and movies in a stereo system with sub added if needed in the room.

 

[Steve Dallas]

I have f208s that I'm about to move into a mid size room but this review has me second guessing if I should trade them out for the 206s for the more favorable small form factor. If I'm running the 206 with a sub am I likely to notice a difference? Comparing the reviews it looks like the 208s have broader horizontal dispersion, very slightly smoother/flatter freq response, and lower THD (maybe not audible though), and of course lower cutoff. Anyone heard them side by side that could describe any audible differences? Will be used for 50/50 music and movies in a stereo system with sub added if needed in the room.

Given the choice, I would take the 208s. My room is tiny, so I had to go with the 206s to not have them look silly.

 

[DrewP]

I grabbed a used pair of f208 off CL for just $2,000! Best audio purchase ever...was glad to see a local audio fan selling them (he had KEF Blades on the way and needed these gone, btw)

 

[Laserjock]

I grabbed a used pair of f208 off CL for just $2,000! Best audio purchase ever...was glad to see a local audio fan selling them (he had KEF Blades on the way and needed these gone, btw)

Bumped for Blades.. not a bad compliment

 

[Martin Takamine]

These are my main speakers

One month later and longer true.

 

[Tim Link]

I have f208s that I'm about to move into a 16'x14' basement room with only 6'9" ceilings but this review has me second guessing if I should trade them out for the 206s for the more favorable small form factor. If I'm running the 206 with a sub am I likely to notice a difference? Comparing the reviews it looks like the 208s have broader horizontal dispersion, very slightly smoother/flatter freq response, and lower THD (maybe not audible

though), and of course lower cutoff. Anyone heard them side by side that could describe any audible differences? Will be used for 50/50 music and movies in a stereo system with sub added if needed in the room.

I'll just give you my take on it for what it's worth. I'd go with the form factor you like better. Worst comes the worse if it really doesn't float your boat you can get the other ones but my experience listening to these different models of revel speakers is that the better speaker doesn't necessarily please me better. For whatever reason I like the little f-35s with a subwoofer better than either of those.

 

[Looneybomber]

I have f208s that I'm about to move into a 16'x14' basement room with only 6'9" ceilings but this review has me second guessing if I should trade them out for the 206s for the more favorable small form factor. If I'm running the 206 with a sub am I likely to notice a difference? Comparing the reviews it looks like the 208s have broader horizontal dispersion, very slightly smoother/flatter freq response, and lower THD (maybe not audible though), and of course lower cutoff. Anyone heard them side by side that could describe any audible differences? Will be used for 50/50 music and movies in a stereo system with sub added if needed in the room.

My guess is no, only because you may take a loss. Dealers usually want you to trade up. If you traded down, they most likely will give you even less for your trade if they do the trade at all. You would likely be trading your F208s plus cash to then get F206s. Doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[cce32]

I’ve decided to start saving for a proper pair of floor standers. I know these would compare very well to the ascend acoustics but what would be the differences in real use? I prefer a slightly more forward sound and a “wall of music”, which might achieve this a little better?

I went with the ELX Towers after listening to both because I could drive to pick them up from the factory. Both are excellent I wouldn't stress about the choice, for me the demo environments were so different it way overshadowed the difference in sound.

 

[ferrellms]

There are definitely 2-way bookshelves that can keep up with the F206's THD >100Hz.

THD <100Hz doesn't matter once you add a sub.

Please give me a reference to an article showing the amount of distortion that is audible for loudspeakers in the bass range.

The audibility of low-order Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) on loudspeakers playing music is complex and depends on several factors, including the type of distortion, the listener's sensitivity, the nature of the music, and the listening environment. However, we can make some general observations.

Understanding THD​

Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) is a measure of the distortion introduced by a system, such as a loudspeaker, when it produces harmonics of the input signal that were not present in the original signal. Low-order harmonics (2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.) are typically more audible than high-order harmonics.

Audibility Thresholds​

• Low-Order Harmonics: The 2nd and 3rd harmonics are generally more audible and can be perceived at levels as low as -40 dB below the fundamental signal, depending on the listening conditions and the music content. These harmonics are closer to the original signal frequency and can sometimes blend with the music, making them less objectionable.
• Higher-Order Harmonics: Harmonics higher than the 4th are less audible because they are further away from the fundamental frequency and can be masked by the music. These higher-order harmonics usually need to be at a higher level to be audible, typically above -30 dB below the fundamental.

Practical Audibility in Music​

1. Music Content: Complex music with a lot of overlapping frequencies and rich harmonic content can mask distortion, making even relatively high levels of THD less noticeable. Simple, pure tones or music with sparse instrumentation can make distortion more noticeable.
2. Listening Environment: Quiet listening environments can reveal lower levels of THD compared to noisy environments.
3. Listener Sensitivity: Some individuals are more sensitive to distortion and can detect lower levels of THD.

Typical Thresholds​

Studies and empirical data suggest that:

• THD levels below 1% (-40 dB) are generally inaudible to most listeners when listening to music in a typical environment.
• For critical listening or highly sensitive listeners, THD should ideally be below 0.3% (-50 dB) to ensure that it is inaudible.

Summary​

In summary, low-order THD on loudspeakers playing music is typically inaudible if it is kept below -40 dB relative to the signal. For the most sensitive listeners or in critical listening scenarios, aiming for THD levels below -50 dB ensures minimal audibility. The exact threshold can vary depending on the factors mentioned above.

As log as we are talking the the expert (GPT4o) -

Please give me a reference to an article showing the amount of distortion that is audible for a DAC in an audio signal chain.


Searched 5 sites

The audibility threshold of distortion for DACs in audio signals can vary, but several studies and expert analyses provide some guidelines.

1. General Thresholds:
   • A distortion level of 0.1% THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) is often cited as the point below which distortion is generally considered inaudible in typical listening conditions (Audioholics) (Audio Science Review).
   • For more sensitive listening environments, such as in professional audio production or high-fidelity setups, the threshold for inaudibility can be lower, around 0.002% THD (Audio Science Review).
2. Audibility Studies:
   • Research by Audio Science Review suggests that in optimal listening conditions, a THD level of -60 dB (0.1%) or lower is effectively transparent to human hearing (Audioholics) (Audio Science Review).
   • The subjective audibility of distortion also depends on the type of music and the presence of other masking sounds. For instance, complex music can mask some distortion, making it less noticeable than in simpler or purer tones (Audioholics) (Audio Science Review).
3. Practical Examples:
   • DACs that are well-regarded for their low distortion levels, such as those tested on Audio Science Review, typically show THD levels below 0.002%, ensuring that any distortion is far below the threshold of audibility (Audio Science Review).

For more detailed analysis and specific examples, you can refer to the articles on Audio Science Review and Audioholics. These resources delve deeper into the technical measurements and subjective listening tests that establish these thresholds.

Is it the case that all this hand-wringing about distortion in contemporary audio gear is irrelevant to the listener because it is not even audible at anything less than earsplitting volumes?

 

[staticV3]

Please give me a reference to an article showing the amount of distortion that is audible for loudspeakers in the bass range.

The audibility of low-order Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) on loudspeakers playing music is complex and depends on several factors, including the type of distortion, the listener's sensitivity, the nature of the music, and the listening environment. However, we can make some general observations.

Understanding THD​

Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) is a measure of the distortion introduced by a system, such as a loudspeaker, when it produces harmonics of the input signal that were not present in the original signal. Low-order harmonics (2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.) are typically more audible than high-order harmonics.

Audibility Thresholds​

• Low-Order Harmonics: The 2nd and 3rd harmonics are generally more audible and can be perceived at levels as low as -40 dB below the fundamental signal, depending on the listening conditions and the music content. These harmonics are closer to the original signal frequency and can sometimes blend with the music, making them less objectionable.
• Higher-Order Harmonics: Harmonics higher than the 4th are less audible because they are further away from the fundamental frequency and can be masked by the music. These higher-order harmonics usually need to be at a higher level to be audible, typically above -30 dB below the fundamental.

Practical Audibility in Music​

1. Music Content: Complex music with a lot of overlapping frequencies and rich harmonic content can mask distortion, making even relatively high levels of THD less noticeable. Simple, pure tones or music with sparse instrumentation can make distortion more noticeable.
2. Listening Environment: Quiet listening environments can reveal lower levels of THD compared to noisy environments.
3. Listener Sensitivity: Some individuals are more sensitive to distortion and can detect lower levels of THD.

Typical Thresholds​

Studies and empirical data suggest that:

• THD levels below 1% (-40 dB) are generally inaudible to most listeners when listening to music in a typical environment.
• For critical listening or highly sensitive listeners, THD should ideally be below 0.3% (-50 dB) to ensure that it is inaudible.

Summary​

In summary, low-order THD on loudspeakers playing music is typically inaudible if it is kept below -40 dB relative to the signal. For the most sensitive listeners or in critical listening scenarios, aiming for THD levels below -50 dB ensures minimal audibility. The exact threshold can vary depending on the factors mentioned above.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote?

I didn't mean that harmonic distortion below 100Hz is inaudible no matter how high it gets.

I meant that once you add subs, it doesn't matter how well your mains perform below 100Hz, since they would typically be high-passed anyway in such a scenario.

Therefore, in a 2.1 setup, a floorstander's advantage over a bookshelf speaker is diminished.

Cool summary tho.

 

[Cadillacofminds]

How important is it to deal with nulls created by SBIR with the front wall, with these, and generally? Pushing them against the wall as much as I can, with toe in, seems to result in a distance of about a foot (30cm) from the center of the cones to the wall. Amir's chart seems to show that everything except the tweeter is making noise at about 250hz, does this mean that the distance to the wall should be measured from some other point than the center of the woofer/mid dustcap? ...How come people don't mention much/ever a speaker's depth dimension, is destructive interference from the front wall bounce not the major issue I've come to think it is? (I was reading about the Kii speakers, why my ignorant self is wondering about this)

 

[rynberg]

I meant that once you add subs, it doesn't matter how well your mains perform below 100Hz, since they would typically be high-passed anyway in such a scenario.

Therefore, in a 2.1 setup, a floorstander's advantage over a bookshelf speaker is diminished.

You were incorrect the first time you wrote it...crossing over at the typical 80 Hz, the mains are only down 3-6 dB at 80 Hz and 15-18 dB down at 40 Hz. It plainly ignores readily available objective data to state that "it doesn't matter how well your mains perform below 100 Hz".

I had an excellent reminder this week of how much an impact very low distortion has, when I did measurements of a pro audio line and subwoofer array. When a system is loafing below 1% distortion (and the frequency balance is correct), it is amazing how loudly you can listen and still be comfortable, whereas listening to a consumer product with multiple percent of distortion quickly makes one want to turn it down.

 

[Dal1as]

How important is it to deal with nulls created by SBIR with the front wall, with these, and generally? Pushing them against the wall as much as I can, with toe in, seems to result in a distance of about a foot (30cm) from the center of the cones to the wall. Amir's chart seems to show that everything except the tweeter is making noise at about 250hz, does this mean that the distance to the wall should be measured from some other point than the center of the woofer/mid dustcap? ...How come people don't mention much/ever a speaker's depth dimension, is destructive interference from the front wall bounce not the major issue I've come to think it is? (I was reading about the Kii speakers, why my ignorant self is wondering about this)

The front baffle. Using absorbant panels behind the speaker of around 4 to 8 inches depending on the distance can really help with sbir.

 

[Cadillacofminds]

The front baffle. Using absorbant panels behind the speaker of around 4 to 8 inches depending on the distance can really help with sbir.

I was wondering if the different angles the sound comes to the ear from the mid woofer and the port might change the center frequency of the null(s) you get, but I guess that makes no sense (I was also thinking about line source dispersion, googling tho I see that has to do with higher freauencies). With toe in, is the distance from the wall to the edge of the baffle closer to the wall the relevant distance, it's not a theoretical line from the center of the cone to the wall?

Why don't you hear people talk at all about a model's minimal possible distance from absorption panel/wall to baffle? At some point the wall isn't reflecting the lower frequency waves, lower bass more goes through the wall than reflects from it, no?

 

[caioferrari]

Amir, you can have bias as much as you want. The thing is: Revel speaker measure and sound great

 

[fritobugger]

Amir, you can have bias as much as you want. The thing is: Revel speaker measure and sound great

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[TankTop]

What is that supposed to mean?

he doesn’t know

 

[caioferrari]

What is that supposed to mean?

An answer to this:

“NOTE: Our company, Madrona Digital which is in the business of custom system integration is not in retail business but we are a dealer for Harman products including Revel. If I am not mistaken, the owner actually purchased this speaker from us. My measurements are standardized and no changes where made for testing of this speaker but feel free to read whatever level of bias you like in my subjective comments.”

 

[fritobugger]

An answer to this:

“NOTE: Our company, Madrona Digital which is in the business of custom system integration is not in retail business but we are a dealer for Harman products including Revel. If I am not mistaken, the owner actually purchased this speaker from us. My measurements are standardized and no changes where made for testing of this speaker but feel free to read whatever level of bias you like in my subjective comments.”

We are all aware of this. This is a boilerplate statement at the beginning of all Revel, JBL, and other Harman product reviews. by Amir